SteelBallz

A cam swap is in the very near future for me. I already have the Futral chromemoly pushrods, LS2 timing chain, ASP Pulley. Also, a PRC dual spring kit on the way. I am having to buy one piece at a time since I am a poor college student. I was all ready to buy an F-13 on an 114lsa from FMS (since they were on sale at that time). But something happened and I missed the sale….

I have a buddy that works at Comp Cams and I know I can get a custom grind cam for $305 (no shipping since I can go and pick it up). That would have me saving about $100 as compared to FMS.

My question is if I took the same specs of the F-13 and had a Comp cam grinded out, how much different would it be? Or could I have them fix me up a comparable cam, since the F-13 is on cam-motion lobes and the Comp (XE or XE-R??) are a little different. Is it worth $100 to go with FMS?

What do you guys think? How much of a difference? That $100 could go a long way in buying misc. stuff (i.e. Pen magnets, gaskets, etc.) I know that FMS had awesome customer service and stuff, but Comp is right here in Memphis and I am pretty sure my buddy will take care of me///

BTW: what Comp lobes are the closest to the cam motion lobes?


Sorry for the long post, but I want to make the right decision!!!

Thanks for your replies in advance!

BBQLS1

Who makes the Futral Cams? You might be suprised to find comp or someone else makes them. I have a buddy at comp too. I'd go with comp. Comp makes cams for some of the people sponsoring this board(I won't name them). They also have some pretty niffty R&D stuff and they do research for championship NHRA race teams as well as some big names. Right now they got the goods.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

Spend the extra money, and get the FMS cam. Too many people have tried to duplicate the popular cams (T-Rex, G5X2, G5X3, FMS F13s, etc) and they almost ALWAYS end up being underperformers. Alot of variables go into designing a cam, simply calling up Comp cams and telling them you want a 230/232 114 may not get you anywhere near (power wise) where you'd be with a FMS F13.

Cam Motion grinds FMS' cams, and they are only available through FMS. A few months ago, I ordered a F13 from FMS, and it was backordered, so I called Cam Motion, and they wouldn't sell it to me, said they were proprietary lobes, and could only be sold through FMS, and that there would definitely be a difference in power. Enough convincing for me, I kept my order with FMS.

Just my .02, Shawn

SteelBallz

That is why I said something about having them fix me up a comparable cam, since the F-13 is on cam-motion lobes and the Comp (XE or XE-R).

There is a cam that COMP already offers, but I don't know how close it is since they have differnet lobes... here it is...

LS1 3725R/3726R HR 114

230/232 @ .050"
.591/.595 w/ 1.7 rocker
114 lsa

BLASTER

iTrader: (4)

Just spend the money for the FMS cam. Its worth it. Just matching the duration and the height does not make the designs equivalent. The lobe profile (actual curvature/ramp rate) is different and that is what you are paying for. FMS has seemed to hit the nail on the head when they design this cam and an extra 100 bucks spent is worth it to ensure that you get a true performer.

BBQLS1

There is a lot more that goes into a cam than duration, lift, and LSA. Sorry guys, but I have to go with comp. I've toured the comp facility in Memphis while being an ME student, and they do some pretty cool stuff you don't hear about from the other guys.


I don't know about the propriatary lobe thing. I'm not doubting what cam motion said, but I find it hard to belive that you can license a lobe profile. Cam Motion, probably agreed not to sell it though. I'm just wondering the legal side of licensing a lobe profile. Sounds funny to me, but I could be wrong.

cyphur

iTrader: (10)

it means YOU CAN'T BUY A CAM USING THE LOBE PROFILE THAT FMS USES. its proprietary, as in they won't divulge that information. cam motion won't tell you what lobe profiles FMS uses, and even if you knew, they're probably in agreement not to sell them except through FMS. its called intellectual property rights. Allan Futral designed these cams, and so he probably has some rights to those combinations.

that being said, buy it through FMS. they're great people, and their cams are awesome. don't waste your time trying to get comp to copy it, they won't get it right. trust me, i've seen people try and fail miserably. the lobe profiles are just too different.

Kraest

iTrader: (3)

Yes, you can buy directly from Cam Motion.
No, you can't buy other people's cam designs from Cam Motion.

IMO, if you have a cam design in mind, get it ground and let us know how it works

Mike

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

Just call cam-motion up and have them do a "custom grind" for you, they take down the majority of your info and will come back with a few different choices. Allan Futral is a smart **** but I doubt he does lobe design so I'm not sure why those cams are proprietary info....

cyphur

iTrader: (10)

as many cams as he sells from cam motion, there's probably an agreement in place. and matching up the right lobes, and entire cam profiles is a hell of a lot more difficult than throwing together good numbers @ .050.

of course you can buy cams direct from cam motion. you just can't call up and ask for an FMS cam lol. if you had an fms cam, cam doctored, and called cam motion, you might be able to swing it. i wouldn't bet any money on it yet.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

YOu can call cam motion and have Terry grind you an awsome cam , just not one of Futrals. If he thought up the cam design, then he should have rights to it.

ssheets

iTrader: (1)

If you can afford the $100 go with FMS, if not go with Comp. Either way you'll be fine, the FMS will likely make some more ponies, but the Comp cam will run great. I wouldn't try and guess at something inbetween.

Whichever you go with, make sure there's a lot of happy customers running the same cam so you don't get any surprises.

01_SuperSlow

iTrader: (7)

SteelBallz

Well my origial question was whether or not to go with FMS or Comp, because of the $100 difference. I don't care anything about calling up cam-motion or the rights to Futral lobes....

I was not saying that I was going to try and copy the cam, I just want one that is similair (since I have ridden in a car with the F-13 and like it).

I am still not sure what I am going to do. I am not sure if I see a $100 difference, plus I would be giving business to a local place...

eerrrr... I don't know!!!

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

Comp puts out badass grinds too and if you get the right person to custom grind 1 for you , I would save $100. I support Futrals as they are local to me and he knows his **** but Comp did not just fall off teh wagon either.

Jimm

It depends on what method they have chosen to protect their product; trade secret or through patent law. It also depends on the agreement and contract in place between Cam Motion and FMS.

Unless Futral as patented the design of their cam, there is no intellectual property right that would protect them from other people using the same specs and lobe design.

SteelBallz

I am going to call both Comp & Futral in the morning and see if they can help me make this decision any easier...

I am ordering one or the other by the end of this week though!!!!

Jimm

That will make you decide on Futral right there. With Futral you will get at least three highly knowledgeable people answering the phones AND giving you advice, willing to take the time to talk with you. At Comp, you may or may not get someone who is truly knowledgeable at all, and may or may not be willing to take the time talk to you.

BBQLS1

I hope you didn't think that I was implying that comp would copy the FMS cam. I wasn't. I was just saying that two different companies could come up with the same profile. Maybe not, but I was not implying that anyone should get another cam company to copy someone elses profile. I think that who ever designed it in the first place should get the money.

TNormZ28

iTrader: (9)

I have a FMS cam. A buddy had a very similar cam ground from comp. Dyno peak numbers are in the comp cam favor, but track numbers are all Futral by 4mph. The comp traps 110-111. I trap 115-116. Not huge but when you are getting up to those speeds N/A it makes a difference. Especially when the comp cam car is an 02 and mine is a 99 with the ls1 intake and stock heads. Both A4s with similar stalls.