395 rwhp NA with factory manifolds, cats and catback!
#1
395 rwhp NA with factory manifolds, cats and catback!
Although many of you could care less, I’ve been wanting to try this for years: Make 100 rwhp over stock, but be completely stock sounding and acting to myself and the general public. That meant no lopey idling cams, no tinny sounding headers, no loud cat-backs, no crappy gas mileage and 100% emissions compliance. I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I was going to use a lot of smarts and a lot of money to do it.
Geoff and Angie from Thunder Racing had the answer, their CheaTR (cheater) package. By utilizing AFR 205 heads with 60cc chambers and a specially ground cam designed to run well with stock exhaust, the package met all goals: Bone stock idle, bone stock exhaust sounds, bone stock NVH, bone stock fuel economy, emissions compliance, but 395 rwhp and 376 rwtq. The cam specs out at 214/230 .600/.578 117LSA. Basically, it mimicks how GM grinds their cams to run with stock exhaust. Think of it as a LS6 cam on steroids. It’s even pretty close to the new LS7 cam (211/230).
Bone stock, my car dynoed around 300 rwhp. Since I purchased the car last year, I’ve added an MTI lid, ported throttle body, LS6 intake, ASP UD pulley, 160 degree stat, SLP Dual/Dual catback, and HP Tuners tweaks. As delivered to Thunder Racing, my TA made 335 rwhp and 339 rwtq. Getting additional ponies with no downsides wasn’t going to be easy.
Click here for the before/after dyno sheet: http://www.guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno1
As you can see from the dyno sheet, the power pulls strong to 6800 rpm. Ever see a 214 cam with choked-up exhaust pull that well? We also tried a pull with 100 hp jets in the newly installed NX MAF kit. We got 494 rwhp through completely closed exhaust. Too bad the clutch slipped, LOL.
Click here for the nitrous dyno sheet: http://www.guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno4
Special thanks go to Shane and Stu at Thunder Racing for their expert care in the installation. Anybody with a C5/C6, GTO or Cadillac CTS-V should take an especially hard look at the package from Thunder Racing as it adds serious horsepower without compromising one bit of stockness.
Geoff and Angie from Thunder Racing had the answer, their CheaTR (cheater) package. By utilizing AFR 205 heads with 60cc chambers and a specially ground cam designed to run well with stock exhaust, the package met all goals: Bone stock idle, bone stock exhaust sounds, bone stock NVH, bone stock fuel economy, emissions compliance, but 395 rwhp and 376 rwtq. The cam specs out at 214/230 .600/.578 117LSA. Basically, it mimicks how GM grinds their cams to run with stock exhaust. Think of it as a LS6 cam on steroids. It’s even pretty close to the new LS7 cam (211/230).
Bone stock, my car dynoed around 300 rwhp. Since I purchased the car last year, I’ve added an MTI lid, ported throttle body, LS6 intake, ASP UD pulley, 160 degree stat, SLP Dual/Dual catback, and HP Tuners tweaks. As delivered to Thunder Racing, my TA made 335 rwhp and 339 rwtq. Getting additional ponies with no downsides wasn’t going to be easy.
Click here for the before/after dyno sheet: http://www.guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno1
As you can see from the dyno sheet, the power pulls strong to 6800 rpm. Ever see a 214 cam with choked-up exhaust pull that well? We also tried a pull with 100 hp jets in the newly installed NX MAF kit. We got 494 rwhp through completely closed exhaust. Too bad the clutch slipped, LOL.
Click here for the nitrous dyno sheet: http://www.guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno4
Special thanks go to Shane and Stu at Thunder Racing for their expert care in the installation. Anybody with a C5/C6, GTO or Cadillac CTS-V should take an especially hard look at the package from Thunder Racing as it adds serious horsepower without compromising one bit of stockness.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Last edited by Patrick G; 04-25-2005 at 05:50 PM.
#3
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Sweet numbers! I kind of went a similar route: out of box 205 AFRs, 222-222 .581 .581 xer 115lsa, and vig 2800. 376rwhp - 361rwtq
Have stock manifolds and a GMMG catback.
I'm considering QTP longtubes maybe next January. Anyway congrats on the setup, the car should haul ***!
Have stock manifolds and a GMMG catback.
I'm considering QTP longtubes maybe next January. Anyway congrats on the setup, the car should haul ***!
#4
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That is badass. While a ***** out heads/cam setup can make 50-65 rwhp over that I have to say that I would love to have your setup on a car that looks like mine. Z28 with sport package ground effects and all badges removed....
#5
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That is basically maximizing all the parameters of a bone stock motor and I am glad someone did it!! It's not my cup of tea but It's great to see someone go this route and have great results!! Congrats and props to you!!!!
#7
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Fantastic!!!
I am glad to see someone do this. I had thought of going that route myself, skipping headers and going with stock exhaust, a cam and ??
I suppose the main difference is cost? Headers vs nice heads?
I got great power out of my headers but fine tuning the fit on the y-pipe and loss of ground clearance makes me think about it again.
Great job!!!
I am glad to see someone do this. I had thought of going that route myself, skipping headers and going with stock exhaust, a cam and ??
I suppose the main difference is cost? Headers vs nice heads?
I got great power out of my headers but fine tuning the fit on the y-pipe and loss of ground clearance makes me think about it again.
Great job!!!
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#10
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those numbers are badass. to have the same behavior as stock must be really nice for a change. my Spec3 and 9" w/full spool just doesn't really behave all that well sometimes......
#11
Thanks, I have been waiting on your results. Could you please answer a few questions for me
How well did this combo idle with the factory tune? Any surging at a quick stop or hot start surging with stock tune?
Did you have to delete(turn off) the rear O2 exhaust sensors? Any check engine codes?
Is the valvetrain noisier with the shorter duration, .600 lift cam?
How well did this combo idle with the factory tune? Any surging at a quick stop or hot start surging with stock tune?
Did you have to delete(turn off) the rear O2 exhaust sensors? Any check engine codes?
Is the valvetrain noisier with the shorter duration, .600 lift cam?
#13
Originally Posted by Jared H
Any idea how well that cam would work on stock heads?
Thx
Originally Posted by jrp
bad *** Patrick . anymore info your willing to give on the cam specs? advertised and .200 duration, icl, ect.
Originally Posted by gollum
Thanks, I have been waiting on your results. Could you please answer a few questions for me
How well did this combo idle with the factory tune?
How well did this combo idle with the factory tune?
Any surging at a quick stop or hot start surging with stock tune?
Did you have to delete(turn off) the rear O2 exhaust sensors? Any check engine codes?
Is the valvetrain noisier with the shorter duration, .600 lift cam?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#15
One interesting side note was the back-pressure issue of the cat-back. Thinking we might be leaving some hp on the table, we dropped the cat-back after the y pipe (since I don't have a cutout) and we made the SAME power. This proved to me 2 things. ONE, that the SLP Dual Dual is a good flowing catback and TWO, that the choke point of the exhaust must be in the manifolds. In the past, I've gutted the cats on these set-ups before and gotten 0 hp. So even though these '00-02 manifolds are pretty good, they're still a far cry from headers, LOL! But man, do they sound GOOD!!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#17
Congrats on the #'s
I was/have been curious as to how much power you could make and remain smog legal. I wonder how much it would make with lower compression and a smog legal blower??
I was/have been curious as to how much power you could make and remain smog legal. I wonder how much it would make with lower compression and a smog legal blower??
#18
Originally Posted by Spellbound
Congrats on the #'s
I was/have been curious as to how much power you could make and remain smog legal. I wonder how much it would make with lower compression and a smog legal blower??
I was/have been curious as to how much power you could make and remain smog legal. I wonder how much it would make with lower compression and a smog legal blower??
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.