TR 224/224 vs FMS 224/224
04-28-2005, 11:40 AM
#1
TR 224/224 vs FMS 224/224 I just checked out the FMS equivalent to the TR 224/224 114. The only difference between the TR 224 and the FMS 224 is the lift. FMS has a little bit more. Is the difference between 563 from TR and 588 from FMS worth the extra horsepower knowing that the valvetrain is under more stress and will possibly not last as long? And btw, this is a daily driver and I've actually already purchased the TR 224/224 114. I also have to pass emissions and haven't heard that the FMS will actually pass. Anyone know that it will? I imagine it would with a good tune, but I haven't heard either way. What kind of difference in regards to hp and tq are we talking here for a difference of ~ 25. TIA. 
04-28-2005, 11:54 AM
#2
If youve already bought the TR, then you might as well keep heading inthat direction. FMS cams are the best of both worlds. Theyre surprising docile with a smooth idle and great low torque. The lobes are grinded so that the FMS cam may be even gentler on your springs than the TR224, regardless of the higher lift. FMS cams also make great power compared to other cams of similar size. Its almost unfair to other cam manufacturers that FMS cams should accell in both directions at the same time, when its usually an either/or situation. That being said, the HP difference will probably be somewhere in the single digits, so it dosnt likely warrant upsetting your current plans. Afterall, the TR 224 has gained all its popularity for a reason - its a great cam too.
04-28-2005, 11:54 AM
#3
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Comparing to cams at .050 doesn't tell you much and by no means are they equal.
TR uses proprietary lobes ground by Comp and FMS uses Cam Motion grinds. That alone separates them.
On top of that all the VE's, EVOs etc... are all different.
Which one is better? neither. They are both great cams, same power range, similar potential. It is just a matter of choice either will perform greatly.
TR uses proprietary lobes ground by Comp and FMS uses Cam Motion grinds. That alone separates them.
On top of that all the VE's, EVOs etc... are all different.
Which one is better? neither. They are both great cams, same power range, similar potential. It is just a matter of choice either will perform greatly.
04-28-2005, 12:04 PM
#4
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Comparing to cams at .050 doesn't tell you much and by no means are they equal.
TR uses proprietary lobes ground by Comp and FMS uses Cam Motion grinds. That alone separates them.
On top of that all the VE's, EVOs etc... are all different.
Which one is better? neither. They are both great cams, same power range, similar potential. It is just a matter of choice either will perform greatly.
TR uses proprietary lobes ground by Comp and FMS uses Cam Motion grinds. That alone separates them.
On top of that all the VE's, EVOs etc... are all different.
Which one is better? neither. They are both great cams, same power range, similar potential. It is just a matter of choice either will perform greatly.
perfectly stated. You have more aggressive FMS people on here pushing their FMS cam but in no way is it better than the TR224. The only cam I've seen from them that turns my head is a FM15 with a similar tq curve as mine. It produces more power but we're talking a lot bigger of a cam as well. MTI has a cam or two that I like as well.
04-28-2005, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
If youve already bought the TR, then you might as well keep heading inthat direction. FMS cams are the best of both worlds. Theyre surprising docile with a smooth idle and great low torque. The lobes are grinded so that the FMS cam may be even gentler on your springs than the TR224, regardless of the higher lift. FMS cams also make great power compared to other cams of similar size. Its almost unfair to other cam manufacturers that FMS cams should accell in both directions at the same time, when its usually an either/or situation. That being said, the HP difference will probably be somewhere in the single digits, so it dosnt likely warrant upsetting your current plans. Afterall, the TR 224 has gained all its popularity for a reason - its a great cam too.
Don't believe all of the hype. If you have two cams that have the almost exact same lobe profiles other than just a little bit of peak lift (and these cams do, I can prove it with measurements off of my Cam Pro Plus) and the same amount of overlap then how is it physically possible for one to make so much power yet be more docile? The short answer is that it can't, that violates the laws of physics. Most of the difference that most people see in drivability (95% of it) comes from the tune. A proper tune can make a monster cam drive quite well and a hack tune can make a 220 sized cam drive like crap. I just tuned a 6 Speed car with a T-Rex and you literally can put in 6th gear at 1400 RPM and punch it and it pulls just like stock. No bucking, surging, or stalling.
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04-28-2005, 01:23 PM
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The lobes are grinded so that the FMS cam may be even gentler on your springs than the TR224, regardless of the higher lift.
Its almost unfair to other cam manufacturers that FMS cams should accell in both directions at the same time
Last edited by SportSide 5.3; 04-28-2005 at 01:29 PM.
04-28-2005, 01:31 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Geoff
Don't believe all of the hype. If you have two cams that have the almost exact same lobe profiles other than just a little bit of peak lift (and these cams do, I can prove it with measurements off of my Cam Pro Plus) and the same amount of overlap then how is it physically possible for one to make so much power yet be more docile? The short answer is that it can't, that violates the laws of physics. Most of the difference that most people see in drivability (95% of it) comes from the tune. A proper tune can make a monster cam drive quite well and a hack tune can make a 220 sized cam drive like crap. I just tuned a 6 Speed car with a T-Rex and you literally can put in 6th gear at 1400 RPM and punch it and it pulls just like stock. No bucking, surging, or stalling.
But I digress. In my original post I told the guy that it wouldnt be worth while to switch cams now that he already bought a TR224. I said it was a great cam, hence the reason for its popularity. I only tried to offer some reasons as to why the FMS cam-motion grinds seem to be so popular lately - and for good reason. But in his particular case, he has nothing to gain by upsetting the current situation. The differences will likely be imperceptible.
04-28-2005, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Sorry for being one of those FMS fanatic guys. I was dead set on getting a TR228 before i finally got my f13. Im sorry I really dont mean to badmouth the TR224, in fact I think its a great cam. However I personally have seen too many FMS cams idle and drive incredibly well on a stock tune, where others of similar size are far more of a chore to get to behave. And it dosnt seem to be just people around me, either. Countless posts after post of people saying similar things. And it dosnt defy the laws of physics, it just a little counter-intuitive. Just like square wave vs. sine wave distortion in music. Or how you can blow out your stock speakers with 50 distorted watts of power, but theyll happily play to a long life with 80 watts of clean power. At first it dosnt seem like it should work that way, but it does.
But I digress. In my original post I told the guy that it wouldnt be worth while to switch cams now that he already bought a TR224. I said it was a great cam, hence the reason for its popularity. I only tried to offer some reasons as to why the FMS cam-motion grinds seem to be so popular lately - and for good reason. But in his particular case, he has nothing to gain by upsetting the current situation. The differences will likely be imperceptible.
But I digress. In my original post I told the guy that it wouldnt be worth while to switch cams now that he already bought a TR224. I said it was a great cam, hence the reason for its popularity. I only tried to offer some reasons as to why the FMS cam-motion grinds seem to be so popular lately - and for good reason. But in his particular case, he has nothing to gain by upsetting the current situation. The differences will likely be imperceptible.
I understand your point but I have measured all of the above cams. There is almost no difference in the lobes. It's not like one of us has a square lobe and the other has a sine wave. On the lobes I measured about the only difference was just a little bit of peak lift.
Most of the drivability in a cam comes down to overlap. This is a big affect if you have a cam that has a huge duration a .006" lift or 'advertised number' vs. one with a smaller number. This is where fast ramp cams have come into play. One cam can have a smaller advertised number but a larger number at .050" and have less overlap around the opening points and wind up with slightly better idle and drivability characteristics. BUT if the lobes are same except at peak lift and the separation between intake and exhaust are the same explain how you can have a difference if there are no physical differences in the cams where it counts for drivability.
I didn't take your post as badmouthing our cam but I also see you and a lot of other people saying things about FMS cams that while true doesn't mean our stuff doesn't do as good if not better. Unless you have two cams on the same car with the same tune it is really hard to compare don't you think?
04-28-2005, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp
Geoff, is the tr224 lobe universal, meaning its the same lobe in the single pattern and the 227/224 and 230/224 cams?
04-28-2005, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp
i've got a cam pro profile of a tr230.
w/o giving away the FM 224 spec's if you dont want to how do they compare to the tr224, comp 224 XE and XE-R?
P.M. Sent.
04-28-2005, 03:19 PM
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I ran a TR224/114 for about 3,000 miles. I did make a several passes at the track and with stock heads and bolt ons I made numerous/consistant 115mph passes and one 116.5mph pass weighing in at 3700lbs+ race weight.
Ill be completely honest here.. I was sooooo happy with this cam that I damn near didnt want to go FI, thought about just getting a set of good heads instead. That is the ONLY reason I replaced the cam... was to accomodate the Procharger. The car ran flawlessly with this cam.. had good street manners... still recorded 27-28mpg on freeway drives..... and performed flawlessly at the track.
Just use the TR224.. youll be happy with it. As said there is a reason why this cam is highly recommended and extremely popular.
Ill be completely honest here.. I was sooooo happy with this cam that I damn near didnt want to go FI, thought about just getting a set of good heads instead. That is the ONLY reason I replaced the cam... was to accomodate the Procharger. The car ran flawlessly with this cam.. had good street manners... still recorded 27-28mpg on freeway drives..... and performed flawlessly at the track.
Just use the TR224.. youll be happy with it. As said there is a reason why this cam is highly recommended and extremely popular.
04-28-2005, 05:02 PM
#15
I've heard nothing but great things about the TR224 so I'm pretty satisfied that I'm making the right decision. I'm actually putting the cam in this weekend. Never done a cam install before, so we'll see how that goes.
If the hp and tq numbers are different between the cams, I highly doubt that there will be any kind of significant difference between the two. I'm also guessing that the difference will be in the single digits. Is it possible that the TR will even make better numbers?
If the hp and tq numbers are different between the cams, I highly doubt that there will be any kind of significant difference between the two. I'm also guessing that the difference will be in the single digits. Is it possible that the TR will even make better numbers?
05-13-2005, 01:29 PM
#16
Quite possibly the TR224 is the best all around cam ever ground for the LSx based engine..It idles absolutely perfect,makes incredable tq and pull hard to 6500.I went 124 mph using this cam and a set of S1 LS6 heads threw an A4...
I've had 4 cams in LSx based engines and by far this TR224 was the best,I only wish I wouldve tried the Trex in my race car but alas I sold the TA and bought a GTO
I've had 4 cams in LSx based engines and by far this TR224 was the best,I only wish I wouldve tried the Trex in my race car but alas I sold the TA and bought a GTO
