Cam
10-13-2005, 07:30 PM
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Cam Called comp cams trying to find one that fits my needs. won't lie don't know a whole lot about them, the tech guy gave me this:
224 @ 50
568 lift
112 degree lobe
108 intake centerline
grind: 3715r\3715rhr112+4
does anyone have a similar cam to this and possibly a soundclip/ video clip of it. and do you guys think this is a good sized cam that will have a decent lope, my mods are in my sig and i have stock 3.42's with the M6. wanting big lope, on a daily driver, i'm going to get a tune on the car after cams installed thanks in advance to all that lend an ear and advice thank you
224 @ 50
568 lift
112 degree lobe
108 intake centerline
grind: 3715r\3715rhr112+4
does anyone have a similar cam to this and possibly a soundclip/ video clip of it. and do you guys think this is a good sized cam that will have a decent lope, my mods are in my sig and i have stock 3.42's with the M6. wanting big lope, on a daily driver, i'm going to get a tune on the car after cams installed thanks in advance to all that lend an ear and advice thank you
10-13-2005, 07:50 PM
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I went with the comps cam 232/234 @50 112 lsa .595/.598 lift, and I definatly have a lope to my car. And my car pulls like a raped ape, at least to me before the cam.
10-13-2005, 07:53 PM
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Very similar to my cam -0 I am very happy with it and get the "thumbs up" all the time when it is idling. It sounds like a BIG cam but is great for an everyday driver with stock gears!
10-13-2005, 08:49 PM
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as said before, i don't know a whole lot about cam sizes etc. yet. so are the cams you two guys have smaller or bigger 
also noticed one of you were from indy, where did you get your tune at ?
also noticed one of you were from indy, where did you get your tune at ?
10-13-2005, 09:18 PM
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black01_ws6 's cam is much larger. My cam is a good street cam with an occasional track visit. Great cam to start with to be sure you can live with a cammed car. It has good idle quality and street manners - even without a tune. His cam will not be as street friendly and the power band will be higher. If you do not plan on "driving it like you stole it" I would stick to the 222-224 duration cams like the one you are looking at. TR224 (thunder racing)_ is another popular cam in the same category.
10-13-2005, 09:25 PM
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SEARCH. Read the cam guide sticky.
That is one of the, if not the most popular/common cam for an LS1 and there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of posts/threads about it.
Don't expect big lope. It'll sound better than stock for sure, but it won't be a race car. Maybe if you run it with a nice, low idle speed. How big of lope do you really want?
BTW: Where in IN are you?
That is one of the, if not the most popular/common cam for an LS1 and there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of posts/threads about it.
Don't expect big lope. It'll sound better than stock for sure, but it won't be a race car. Maybe if you run it with a nice, low idle speed. How big of lope do you really want?
BTW: Where in IN are you?
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10-13-2005, 09:29 PM
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i'm in New Castle. Where you at? would a 224/224 .563" 114lsa Xtreme cam be too large for a first cam? on ls1 sounds i really liked the lope sound of it, thinking it might be a bit large though 
Last edited by 99camarosupersport; 10-13-2005 at 09:39 PM.
10-13-2005, 09:42 PM
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You need to do some relatively extension searching/researching. Cam selection is probably the toughest decision when it comes to picking a single mod.
I'm in West Lafayette ATM.
No, FAR from too small for a first cam. You just need to get a converter first. The key to a large cam is an equally large converter and, most importantly, a good hands on dyno tune by somebody with experience.
I'm in West Lafayette ATM.
No, FAR from too small for a first cam. You just need to get a converter first. The key to a large cam is an equally large converter and, most importantly, a good hands on dyno tune by somebody with experience.
10-13-2005, 10:07 PM
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i don't have the A4....i have the M6 so i dont need a converter? are you saying that 224/224 .563" 114lsa xtreme is too small? i am wondering if you misprinted that? sorry on my lack of knowledge on cams, i'm reading the sticky and doing research now.
10-13-2005, 10:19 PM
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Boy, I really got threads confused.
Ignore everything I said about converters. Sorry.
But, as to what I said about big lope. Don't expect big lope from a 224. For big lope you need something more aggressive, and to make a more agressive cam work you will want the gears. 3.73 or 4.10's, depending on intended use. Just realize you won't see great track times until you have a good clutch and stronger rear end.
Ignore everything I said about converters. Sorry.
But, as to what I said about big lope. Don't expect big lope from a 224. For big lope you need something more aggressive, and to make a more agressive cam work you will want the gears. 3.73 or 4.10's, depending on intended use. Just realize you won't see great track times until you have a good clutch and stronger rear end.
10-13-2005, 10:43 PM
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i would consider putting different gears in the rear 3.73's or 4.10's but i do NOT want to put a 12 bolt rear end on my car that is out of the question $$ 
i'm not expecting a huge lope but i am WANTING a noticeably blump/blump.
i'm not expecting a huge lope but i am WANTING a noticeably blump/blump.
10-13-2005, 11:17 PM
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Do you drive your car every day to work and back?
Do you want to continue driving your car to work and back everyday?
Think of cam size like this, 218 is a small cam, 224 is the medium cam, and 236 is the big cam. You can go smaller or larger sure, but that set of guidlines will help you know if something is large or not.
Rough idle is related to the lobe seperation of your cam (lsa). The higher this number, the smoother the idle will be. 110 is very rough, and 116 is close to stock.
Lift: .500" is small, .550" is medium, .600" is large. The higher the lift, the harder it is on the valve springs. A large cam on a .600" lift is going to need valve train attention on a regula basis. A small cam on a .500" lift is going to be installed and forgotten.
It sounds to me like you want semi-agressive. I would recomend the 224 grind on a 112lsa. You'll be able to tune it well enough that you can start it up in the morning and go, but it will still be noticable when you're idling.
Also, the larger the cam, the higher it moves the power in your RPM range. A 236/240 cam on a 110 LSA isn't going to make huge power until several thousand RPM's. It will actually lose power in low side (where you spend most of your time on the street). That is why gears are important with huge cams.
The 224/224 112 and the 224/224 114 are great grinds that keep a happy medium of most users. Low and high end power. The 112 will be a little rougher idle (which a lot of people like), and the 114 will be a smoother idle (which a lot of people also like).
You want to say no no to a 12 bolt rear end, then you need to be content with the idea that you're almost done making power. The cam, and an UD pulley will be about the limit for 10 bolt rear end safety. (Or you could never put a sticky tire on it and just be super gentle. But then what's the point of the power?)
Search in this section for 224, and you'll see a million and one posts on the cam. I don't think I've ever seen anybody hate it. (though some people do like to go larger later).
Good luck on your new setup!!
Have fun with her. 
Do you want to continue driving your car to work and back everyday?
Think of cam size like this, 218 is a small cam, 224 is the medium cam, and 236 is the big cam. You can go smaller or larger sure, but that set of guidlines will help you know if something is large or not.
Rough idle is related to the lobe seperation of your cam (lsa). The higher this number, the smoother the idle will be. 110 is very rough, and 116 is close to stock.
Lift: .500" is small, .550" is medium, .600" is large. The higher the lift, the harder it is on the valve springs. A large cam on a .600" lift is going to need valve train attention on a regula basis. A small cam on a .500" lift is going to be installed and forgotten.
It sounds to me like you want semi-agressive. I would recomend the 224 grind on a 112lsa. You'll be able to tune it well enough that you can start it up in the morning and go, but it will still be noticable when you're idling.
Also, the larger the cam, the higher it moves the power in your RPM range. A 236/240 cam on a 110 LSA isn't going to make huge power until several thousand RPM's. It will actually lose power in low side (where you spend most of your time on the street). That is why gears are important with huge cams.
The 224/224 112 and the 224/224 114 are great grinds that keep a happy medium of most users. Low and high end power. The 112 will be a little rougher idle (which a lot of people like), and the 114 will be a smoother idle (which a lot of people also like).
You want to say no no to a 12 bolt rear end, then you need to be content with the idea that you're almost done making power. The cam, and an UD pulley will be about the limit for 10 bolt rear end safety. (Or you could never put a sticky tire on it and just be super gentle. But then what's the point of the power?)
Search in this section for 224, and you'll see a million and one posts on the cam. I don't think I've ever seen anybody hate it. (though some people do like to go larger later).
Good luck on your new setup!!
Have fun with her.
10-13-2005, 11:51 PM
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thanks captusa 
that basically made more sense than anything i've read so far, although i am getting the concept of it all from reading so much about it. but that helped alot thanks to you all. i think i'm gonna go with the 224/224 .568 112 for now. would you guys recomend diff gears even with this cam? i have 3.42's now
that basically made more sense than anything i've read so far, although i am getting the concept of it all from reading so much about it. but that helped alot thanks to you all. i think i'm gonna go with the 224/224 .568 112 for now. would you guys recomend diff gears even with this cam? i have 3.42's now
10-14-2005, 12:41 AM
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Keep in mind that LSA by itself doesn't mean a whole lot. LSA is only part of the equation. Overlap is what largely determines idle quality. To determine overlap at any given point, such as @.05 (tyically seen numbers) use this equation:
[(intake duration + exhaust duration) / 4] - LSA, and finally multiply by two.
You will see that @ .05 a TR224 on a 112 has 0*. Same on a 114 is negative. My MS3 is 13.5, and a T-rex is around 24. The more points you can apply this to, the better. If you can find the advertised duration, like at .004 or .006, and partial lift numbers as well as @.05 it will give you a better idea of the ramp rates. The harsher lobes will idle better for a given duration at .05.
You really need to read the entire cam guide sticky and the links in 777's sticky to the cam guide discussions in order to make sense of any of this for yourself.
You might be suited well by a TR224 on a 112, but seeing that you want lope I might go a little larger. G5X2 (232/240) on a 112, or something in that area, perhaps. You will want steeper gears with these cams.
[(intake duration + exhaust duration) / 4] - LSA, and finally multiply by two.
You will see that @ .05 a TR224 on a 112 has 0*. Same on a 114 is negative. My MS3 is 13.5, and a T-rex is around 24. The more points you can apply this to, the better. If you can find the advertised duration, like at .004 or .006, and partial lift numbers as well as @.05 it will give you a better idea of the ramp rates. The harsher lobes will idle better for a given duration at .05.
You really need to read the entire cam guide sticky and the links in 777's sticky to the cam guide discussions in order to make sense of any of this for yourself.
You might be suited well by a TR224 on a 112, but seeing that you want lope I might go a little larger. G5X2 (232/240) on a 112, or something in that area, perhaps. You will want steeper gears with these cams.
11-28-2005, 01:38 AM
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I was in the same position as you, totally new to cams, no clue what I was doing. I spend a lot of time on here reading posts, doing searches, etc. etc. While my solution at the end may have been the "easy" way out, I deemed it to be the safest thing to do since this was my first cam.
After upgrading all the rest of the common bolt ons that you should do before venturing out and getting a new cam, I decided to give Thunder Racing a call and had them hook me up with one of their cam package deals.
From reading your signature, the only thing you seem to be missing as far as bolt ons go is a LS6 intake, that thing can be good for about 15 to 20 hp on the dyno after installing the cam.
Anyhow, back to the package deal, it consists of the cam, Comp918 springs (very popular and proven springs good to a .600 lift), hardenend pushrods, titanium retainers (help lighten up the valvetrain to make some extra ponies), and all the necessary gaskets. Aside from that, I also ordered new plugs and wires, a ASP underdrive pulley (the stock pulley has to come out anyhow for the cam install, might as well change it), new belts (coz of the pulley), LS6 ported oil pump (98 and 99 cars had some issues with sudden failure, and it has to come out anyways, so might as well upgrade that), and a new timing chain.... I got the IWIS chain from Thunder Racing,...it's expensive at 150 bucks, but it's a good upgrade and way easier to install than a double roller setup. You can also replace it with a stronger than stock LS2 chain which only costs around 20 to 30 bucks, but is still a good upgrade over the stock one.
My total of all the parts I ordered for the cam install was around 1200 dollars, give or take a few. So yeah, a cam install is not that cheap, there are a lot of parts people tend to forget about or just simply don't want to exchange or upgrade because the old parts are still good. My philiosophy was..."since we're in there already, we might as well".
As far as lope goes.....lets put it this way, to achieve that dragster/racecar sound, you need a big cam, like the Magic Stick from TSP, or the T-Rex from Thunder Racing, or the G5X4. However....for what you're trying to do with your car, those cams are waaay too big. Too much is involved into getting a car to run right with those cams installed, and since you don't want to upgrade the 10 bolt due to money issues, I'd definitely stay clear of anything huge. The TR224 is a great cam. There is no mistaken a car that has one. First off there is the "sewing machine" sound from the new valvetrain, second, open your door and watch the window shake. Yes, even with a medium sized cam like the TR224, your car will shake a bit, and man does it look cool to see rain drops vibrating on your hood. The sound with my setup is awesome, I absolutely love it. I let my car warm up for 2 or 3 mins after starting it and I usually go and stand behind it and just listen to it idle. Power is great, once you hit anything over 3000 rpm, it just pulls like it never did before. I have lower control arms, diamond style subframe connectors, and an adjustable torque arm that mounts to the car instead of the tranny, all of which are mods made to improve traction,....I also have 315 tires on the back with 11" wheels, and my car overpowers those huge tires very very easily, and this is with stock 3.42 gears.
Driveablitly with a tune is great, you have to get used to not reving the car much more over 2000 rpm when it's still cold since high performace springs like the Comp918's tend to be brittle when cold and don't get their full strength till the engine is warmed up.....depending on your tune you might have a bit of bucking when driving at lower rpms....like the 1500 to 1900 rpm range. I still have some issues with my car, but it's going to get a re-tune this saturday hopefully to take care of that.
A cam like the TR224 is in my opinon the perfect cam for what you want. You will have some nice lope (esp with the 112 LSA which is what I have), you'll have good power throughtout the entire rpm range, and you'll have good driveability. Driving a cammed car takes some getting used to, but before you know it, it will be second nature to you. I have gotten lots of thumbs up from people on traffic lights just from sitting there ideling, I have gotten compliments in parking lots, I have set off car alarms just from starting the car.....it's just so much fun now, I coulnd't be happier with my choice!
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
Manny
After upgrading all the rest of the common bolt ons that you should do before venturing out and getting a new cam, I decided to give Thunder Racing a call and had them hook me up with one of their cam package deals.
From reading your signature, the only thing you seem to be missing as far as bolt ons go is a LS6 intake, that thing can be good for about 15 to 20 hp on the dyno after installing the cam.
Anyhow, back to the package deal, it consists of the cam, Comp918 springs (very popular and proven springs good to a .600 lift), hardenend pushrods, titanium retainers (help lighten up the valvetrain to make some extra ponies), and all the necessary gaskets. Aside from that, I also ordered new plugs and wires, a ASP underdrive pulley (the stock pulley has to come out anyhow for the cam install, might as well change it), new belts (coz of the pulley), LS6 ported oil pump (98 and 99 cars had some issues with sudden failure, and it has to come out anyways, so might as well upgrade that), and a new timing chain.... I got the IWIS chain from Thunder Racing,...it's expensive at 150 bucks, but it's a good upgrade and way easier to install than a double roller setup. You can also replace it with a stronger than stock LS2 chain which only costs around 20 to 30 bucks, but is still a good upgrade over the stock one.
My total of all the parts I ordered for the cam install was around 1200 dollars, give or take a few. So yeah, a cam install is not that cheap, there are a lot of parts people tend to forget about or just simply don't want to exchange or upgrade because the old parts are still good. My philiosophy was..."since we're in there already, we might as well".
As far as lope goes.....lets put it this way, to achieve that dragster/racecar sound, you need a big cam, like the Magic Stick from TSP, or the T-Rex from Thunder Racing, or the G5X4. However....for what you're trying to do with your car, those cams are waaay too big. Too much is involved into getting a car to run right with those cams installed, and since you don't want to upgrade the 10 bolt due to money issues, I'd definitely stay clear of anything huge. The TR224 is a great cam. There is no mistaken a car that has one. First off there is the "sewing machine" sound from the new valvetrain, second, open your door and watch the window shake. Yes, even with a medium sized cam like the TR224, your car will shake a bit, and man does it look cool to see rain drops vibrating on your hood. The sound with my setup is awesome, I absolutely love it. I let my car warm up for 2 or 3 mins after starting it and I usually go and stand behind it and just listen to it idle. Power is great, once you hit anything over 3000 rpm, it just pulls like it never did before. I have lower control arms, diamond style subframe connectors, and an adjustable torque arm that mounts to the car instead of the tranny, all of which are mods made to improve traction,....I also have 315 tires on the back with 11" wheels, and my car overpowers those huge tires very very easily, and this is with stock 3.42 gears.
Driveablitly with a tune is great, you have to get used to not reving the car much more over 2000 rpm when it's still cold since high performace springs like the Comp918's tend to be brittle when cold and don't get their full strength till the engine is warmed up.....depending on your tune you might have a bit of bucking when driving at lower rpms....like the 1500 to 1900 rpm range. I still have some issues with my car, but it's going to get a re-tune this saturday hopefully to take care of that.
A cam like the TR224 is in my opinon the perfect cam for what you want. You will have some nice lope (esp with the 112 LSA which is what I have), you'll have good power throughtout the entire rpm range, and you'll have good driveability. Driving a cammed car takes some getting used to, but before you know it, it will be second nature to you. I have gotten lots of thumbs up from people on traffic lights just from sitting there ideling, I have gotten compliments in parking lots, I have set off car alarms just from starting the car.....it's just so much fun now, I coulnd't be happier with my choice!
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
Manny
11-28-2005, 01:46 AM
#19
^^ agreed with everything. way to help a guy out.
99camarosupersport check out these sound clips of the 224's in action
clip 1
clip2
i dont know the idle speed of this car(it seems high), but if you want it more lopey you can try to lower the idle and see if you like the sound better.
Honetly speaking..that lope wasn't big enough for me. I ordered the Futral F11. It's about as big as i'd go for a street car.
Here's a sound clip of the F11 @ 900rpm <--right click and save as, about 14 megabytes.
99camarosupersport check out these sound clips of the 224's in action
clip 1
clip2
i dont know the idle speed of this car(it seems high), but if you want it more lopey you can try to lower the idle and see if you like the sound better.
Honetly speaking..that lope wasn't big enough for me. I ordered the Futral F11. It's about as big as i'd go for a street car.
Here's a sound clip of the F11 @ 900rpm <--right click and save as, about 14 megabytes.
Last edited by Var; 11-28-2005 at 02:05 AM.
