david_rg79

Well I did not introduce myself in the "īntro/noob" forums becasue i do NOT own a chevy powered vechile

Anyways, I have a 1994 3 series bmw my father and i decited to install an "ls?" into.

Few quicks facts:

*Bmw weighs 2688 full weight(bit lighter then zo6)
*handels/breaks almost as good as my fathers 02 Zo6(with suspension/break upgrades i feel my car can be comprable to his) The ls? motors weight less then a bmw 6cyl which puts me dang near 50/50

Anyway, I have owned 32 cars sense i have been 14(now 21) and all have been turbocharged imports, or v8 imports(cars are my hobby)

My current mr2 has 448rwhp and 407tq and the best i have mustered on street tires(225) was a 11.98@121

And seeing i am graduating college this year, my dad and i want to do one last thing together before i begin my career in international business.

The reason we chose ls? is it makes more power, and gets better fuel economy then 99% of bmw engines, and is cheaper

I read the faq up top and i have an indept understanding of forced induction(from experiance) but almost no experiance with NA engines

We just have a few questions

1. Should we just buy an ls6 and T56 and say "F-it" and put a 100-150wet shot on the car?
2. Should we spend less money and get a ls1 and do heads and cam and a t56 ?
If 2nd option what heads/cam are reccomended for an all around fun car(pump gass) I plan to enter the gumball ralley or players run this comming year with the car, and would like to hold my own with porsches/ferraris/highpower mrecedes and the rest of them.

We prefer to retain the stock bottom end, and i dont want to come across as some punk who wants to be top dawg, or something to that effect

I would like to see 475-500rwtq if possible on stock bottom end(preferable without juice)

I just want a fun car

I may actaully go over kill on breaks and suspension, but i want the car to be "safe" in prespective at 180-200mph quick runs, fastest i have been is 172 in my old automatic supra

sorry for blabbing on guys, feel free to flame me as does my father for driving imports

david

conan

iTrader: (5)

You will have to go bigger cubes than 346 to obtain 475/500 rwtq with out a power adder. You can take a lsx block and bore and resleve it up to a 427+. Check out some sponsers for something like a forged 383 or 402 with a good H/C set up and then throw the juice at it.

conan

iTrader: (5)

Heres a link to some t56 options if your lookin to buy new.
http://ddperformance.com/t56__6_spee...nsmissions.htm

redmist

Since I have done the BMW/Ls1 thing and no one else seems to want to respond....

All depends on your budget and what you want to do with your time. As this is a father/son project I would imagine you would want not want to rush it , make it collaborative, make it fun.
Although you stated your HP goals you didn't state what you want to do with the car. Drag race? Road Race? Autox? Street?
Unless you are drag racing the stock motor has more than enough power for any of other use, especially with the weight you are moving. The low end torque is intoxicating. How much time are you going to be going 200mph. Close to zero. Most of your time will be spent from Zero to eighty at stop lights and in traffic.
I would concentrate on maintaining/improving the handling and reliability and making the install as clean and professional as possible.

david_rg79

DO you happen to have a website where i can check out your swap?

Like i said, the only time i would ever plan to run the car that fast is during the players run(for one time video shot), although when i go visit family in Munich i do enjoy crusing @230kph, although its illegal now, my cousin still drives his 540 that fast all day

but in reality i do the casual drag racing(go to track 0-6 times a year) i do like to race from a dig, but being 4 of my first cars were mkiii supras i attained a love for highway racing, i like my dads z06, but it dosnt feel right to me, i would like to make this 3 series an all around good car like my dads

good millege 24-26
Fun preformance (worry free)
handles good and breaks awesome

I am not a person of one care scene, i still enjoy seeing the ricers make their cars loud and lighted up(i enjoy to see peoples personalities portrayed through their cars)
However after my summer in Yamagata city, i really got into the drift scene
I have always enjoyed drag racing, but lately has lost some appeal to me

I am intrested in autoxing but would not want to f-this car up

We kind of setup a goal for 10k(but less would be cooler) for drivetrain installed and be perfect, suspension and breaks is another 4k, plan to have one sweet car for under 15k

I was at horsepower freaks for a dyno day a few years back and there were 2 NA z06's making almost identical 475rwhp/475rwtq or something super close to that, i was hoping to be right there for power wise

conan,
I appreciate the insight, however i do not want to deal with a built motor, i have dumped over 11k in my mr2 on motors, i have gone through 3 "built engines" took a stock engine coated the pistons and made more power(reliably) then the builts ones...its kind of a sore subject and that is why i dont want to touch anything but a stock bottom end

there is a guy in the drag forum who went 10's on a f-body with stock engine(i believe) and builts heads and cams, his car sound wonderful also

thanks once again guys for your help
david

strokedls1

iTrader: (1)

A stock zo6 5th generation car does not make close to 475 rwhp. I have dynoed a few of them and all were around 360-375 rwhp stock to just an aftermarket air induction. You need more cubes to get to 475 rwhp and still have good drivability n/a. My advice is find a good deal on a used tranny and longblock and get them redone. A 00' or newer is preferred. Then go through it to check/ replace bearings and swap in some forged pistons and leave the crank and rods with some arp 2000 rod bolts. Then get a set of afr or trick flows new heads and throw in a medium size cam. By medium I am talking something like a 228/232 .580-.590 lift on a 113-114LSA with no advance ground in. The futural F13 cam is a good one and very streetable. With that combo and a fast 90/90 intake tb combo 460 rwhp is possible. I would look at the NW 90 mm throttle body. If you want to save some money stick with a ls6 intake and ported stock tb and lose 10-12hp.

david_rg79

Intresting, and i did not say there were stock "and there were 2 NA z06's making almost identical 475rwhp/475rwtq "

I'm not sure what they had done, but it was pretty nice whatever it was

Excuse my ignorance, but why swap in fordged pistons? Should i change compression at such point, or is it to allow a bit more saftey when flowing more air then stock and then adding nitrous later?

Do you guys every coat your pistons?

thanks david

conan

iTrader: (5)

Forged pistions will allow you to run alot more juice and not have to worry about braking something. My pistions are mahle, and they came coated. There are other pistion manufacture's that sell coated ones for the lsx aswell.

david_rg79

that is what i figured

did you just re-hone your block, cut/check ring gap and slap them babies in there?

david

conan

iTrader: (5)

I was going to reuse my stock short block but after talking with some sponcers I went with a short block from texas speed. ls1 block honed to 347ci, stock crank, forged crower rods,forged mahle pistions, and all new bearings $2900 W/ core. I kept my stock SB because it only has 29k miles on it. So I ended up paying 3200 without the core.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

Given the weight a good 346 is probably all you need, especially if you might put some spray on it. Decide on the spray before building; it may influence your choice of pistons & rings. Another option is a 383 if you are rebuilding/building from scratch, it will only add a $1k or so.

Coatings are good, but may eat into your budget.

440 rwhp in an MR2 is damn good power since it is sub 3000lbs. MkII? MPH seems kinda low for that power but maybe your spinning too much.

cenTX-LS1

iTrader: (1)

Bring on the spell check.

strokedls1

iTrader: (1)

The pistons are really a safety issue. From experience the pistons are the first things to go. Usually number 7 or 8 due to the intake design feeding more air to thse cylinders and running leaner. If your running a lot of power you put more strees on them and could give on some nitrous. They are pretty weak. The forged pistons can also add some valve reliefs to clearance for a bigger cam down the road if you decide to. I would up the static cr to 11.0-11.2 to pick up some power and still be good with as low as 91 octane. Coatings can be done, but I was told by my rep at je that they were a waste of time on a street strip application.

distortion_69

iTrader: (20)

You won't need heads/cam to keep up with those exotics. Your best and cheapest bet would be spend the money elsewhere. All that power on a roadcourse or an autox is not going to be useable anyways if your budgeting your suspension/wheels, tires/etc. so much.

Drivetrain:
If it were up to me, I'd keep it mild. Your car is light, you won't need a ridicolous clutch. Spec stg 3 clutch and t-56 w/ short shifter (which I happen to have for sale, lol.) for the clutch would work. Or you can give the LS7 clutch a chance.

Motor:

Buy a stock ls1... Do some longtube conversion headers, do em right.. ceramic coated. Do an x pipe with true dual mufflers exiting to the rear. Choose relatively quiet mufflers. Choose a nice cam like an f13 on a 114, or something relatively mild with a mild idle. You don't want it to be ridicolous in a car that is supposed to be "refined". Do your underdrive pulleys, and an ls6 intake. Screw the fast and stuff like that, this ain't a drag racing need every last tenth car, it's not worth the money when theres so much else to fit into a 15k budget. Ported stock t.b. will be plenty also.

This will give you a nice 390-410rwhp engine in a 2800lb-2850lb raceweight car. While this might not sound like alot, take into consideration.. A C5 z06 is around 3100lbs, with average driver raceweight is around 3300. That is a 450-500lb difference, concentrate putting that to the ground and you've got a car that is the same or better power/weight of a new c6 z06.

For straight line races, install a nice nitrous setup with all safety options and electronics. Bottle heater, fuel switch, window switch. Do yourself a favor and go ahead and install a 255lph intake pump. Go with a relatively cold plug and spray 100-150 wet shots when you are doing street pulls with the likes of enzo's and such. I'm not one to race on theory, but your car should be capable of 135+mph traps. Which I would think should do well with the likes of almost all supercars you'll run into.

I would spend saved money from doing stuff like heads/fast intake on things like differential? Aren't those things geared way out? Even with a safe 6600-6700 rev limiter and some larger than stock tires.. if the gears are in the 4.0 or higher range. your top speed is going to be very majorly hindered. You do not want to keep spraying through 5th. In otherwords, you won't be safely racing at speeds like 170+ unless your n/a.. What about strength? Can they effectively put 400rwhp to the ground + spray? You might want to do what you can to beef it up.

Wheels/tires.. put as wide and sticky as you can in there. You want to be able to use as much of that power as you can.. whether it be accelerating out of the turns or racing from a dig.

Be weight conscious.. Any of the minor details you can do when starting from scratch.. lightweight battery.. lightweight wheels/tires, lightweight brakes.. these things will make your gas milage go up, your acceleration, your handling, and your braking.

FWIW: I think your milage will be very impressive, even with the cam due to weight.

Good Luck,
Josh

treyZ28

that is a LOT of power. you are talking 600+ hp at the crank. that is 50% more than what it came with stock and that will only happen with stupid revs or boost on a stock bottom end/cubes.

I suggest looking into a different bottom end. Although its a different engine- physics doesn't change much.

c0ncEpT

iTrader: (4)

Ok I would say go with a nice heads cam 346. Use the Ls1 beacouse the extra like 40hp isent worth the money and can be easily gained back with the heads and cam.

And I know this is totaly off topic but treyZ28 did you ever notice its that its way easier to do donuts to the left? I know when ever im off roading and I hit a open feild its like second nature to turn the wheel to the left to do donuts. idk just wondering if its just me or its normal.

treyZ28

Maybe that explains nascar :think:

are you right handed? maybe that explains it. its easier to bright your right across your body than it is to wrap id down against the way your whole arm wants to move. Think about which one is easier. one = extend arm, the other = shorten arm

distortion_69

iTrader: (20)

I spun my bottomend to 7k for a long time. So long as you keep it to 6600 shift points, and only use the spray when you have to with all safety options.. that motor will last you a long time.

Peace,
Josh

david_rg79

I apologize for not responding, but i had an emergency and had to drive to oregon and back

david_rg79

It is a combursome "tool" to get down the track safely

Mr2's have a viscous LSD inside the tranny, and it first gear when launching the rear end pitches to the extreme left, when grabbing 2nd the rear will swing to extreme right(and if traction does come in 2nd gear the car has shot across almost into the other lane)

Generally 3rd is where i see good traction

I am tired of mid engine cars......