Patriot gold with trex question..
11-28-2005, 10:41 AM
#1
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Patriot gold with trex question.. heres the info on the springs... found this in the cam guide
O.D 1.29
135lbs @ 1.800
385lbs open
coil bind @ 1.08
.650 lift
My Personal Indepedently tested PP golds:
seat: 143 lbs @ 1.800
open: 363 @ 1.200
coil bind: 1.060
Clearance: .140
spring rate: 367
my question is what do i want to setup the springs for Coil bind etc..
If i just install the springs what will happen.. or do i need 80 thousanths coil bind etc...
where do i get the shims and do the shims go on the seat or under..
thanks any help is appreciated..
Dave
O.D 1.29
135lbs @ 1.800
385lbs open
coil bind @ 1.08
.650 lift
My Personal Indepedently tested PP golds:
seat: 143 lbs @ 1.800
open: 363 @ 1.200
coil bind: 1.060
Clearance: .140
spring rate: 367
my question is what do i want to setup the springs for Coil bind etc..
If i just install the springs what will happen.. or do i need 80 thousanths coil bind etc...
where do i get the shims and do the shims go on the seat or under..
thanks any help is appreciated..
Dave
11-28-2005, 12:21 PM
#3
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cali/Bay Area
Posts: 3,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like you can just install them. Don't know what cam your using but I would follow the manufactures specs for setting up the springs. The .080" should be a minimum for coil bind. If you use shims (Which you may not need), they go under the spring seat.
Dan
Dan
11-28-2005, 12:24 PM
#4
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crane Duals
Outer Diameter Outer Spring 1.275
Outer Diameter Inner Spring .937
Inner Diameter Inner Spring .667
Damper No
Seat Pressure @ Installed Height 112 lbs @ 1.800
Open Pressure and Height 352 @ 1.150
Coil Bind 1.045
Maximum Net Lift w/.060" Clearance .650
Average Spring Rate (lbs./in.) 352
PATRIOT GOLDS
O.D 1.29
135lbs @ 1.800
385lbs open
coil bind @ 1.08
.650 lift
My Personal Indepedently tested PP golds:
seat: 143 lbs @ 1.800
open: 363 @ 1.200
coil bind: 1.060
Clearance: .140
spring rate: 367
Noticed SMOKIN01 TA was running crane duals shimmed at 30 thousands but notice spring pressure on Patriot Golds was higher as well as coil bind 15 thousands more..
do i really need shims ?????
Outer Diameter Outer Spring 1.275
Outer Diameter Inner Spring .937
Inner Diameter Inner Spring .667
Damper No
Seat Pressure @ Installed Height 112 lbs @ 1.800
Open Pressure and Height 352 @ 1.150
Coil Bind 1.045
Maximum Net Lift w/.060" Clearance .650
Average Spring Rate (lbs./in.) 352
PATRIOT GOLDS
O.D 1.29
135lbs @ 1.800
385lbs open
coil bind @ 1.08
.650 lift
My Personal Indepedently tested PP golds:
seat: 143 lbs @ 1.800
open: 363 @ 1.200
coil bind: 1.060
Clearance: .140
spring rate: 367
Noticed SMOKIN01 TA was running crane duals shimmed at 30 thousands but notice spring pressure on Patriot Golds was higher as well as coil bind 15 thousands more..
do i really need shims ?????
11-28-2005, 12:41 PM
#6
i would say no because that is what changes a lot of things and puts more preload on the springs and then it is easier to get to coil bind because you are starting tighter already and have 143lbs closed. much more and you will bleed the oil out of the lifters because thers is too much seat pressure. so the answer is no for the shims
Trending Topics
11-28-2005, 04:24 PM
#9
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cali/Bay Area
Posts: 3,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah, the cranes need shimming because it has less seat pressure at 1.8". Thunder recomended spring height at 1.770 with the older crane springs. I to run my Cranes at 1.770 with my Trex. So it looks like you would be fine with no shimming on the patriots providing your spring height is 1.8".
Dan
Dan
11-28-2005, 05:21 PM
#10
I agree, call Thunder. I'm pretty sure they're going to recommend shimming those springs to within .050" of coil bind. The springs will actually last longer if you do this and the motor will rpm better. IMO, no shims under the Patriot springs is not good enough. Call Thunder. 225-754-7223.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
11-28-2005, 05:46 PM
#11
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok sooo if coil bind is 1.060 i need to shim around 90 thousanths... Im not understanding...but im about to call thunder.. who is best to talk to...
11-28-2005, 07:26 PM
#15
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cali/Bay Area
Posts: 3,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm curious to. I thought maybe shimming would put to much open seat pressure but I don't know. Patrick, you saying .050" is plenty clearance for coil bind?
11-29-2005, 03:33 PM
#16
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
talked to thunder.. they said they have never used those springs.. so they dont know..
they just said to set up the springs with the closest coil bind possible....
any help?????
they just said to set up the springs with the closest coil bind possible....
any help?????
11-29-2005, 06:41 PM
#18
.060" shim is better than nothing...
.075" shim is ideal (if you go by the .050" clearance guideline).
.075" shim is ideal (if you go by the .050" clearance guideline).
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
11-29-2005, 07:31 PM
#19
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Coral, FL.
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have talked to patriot performance about this because the patriot gold springs came on my heads, I asked them if the springs would hold up to the T-rex cam. They told me that I would have no problem. I never tried because I am selling the Head/Cam kit I bought from patriot to do something more custom...
If you want call patriot performance and talk to gunnery- 1-888-462-8276.
Hopefully nobody gets upset that I put the number on here, if so I will take it off.
If you want call patriot performance and talk to gunnery- 1-888-462-8276.
Hopefully nobody gets upset that I put the number on here, if so I will take it off.
11-29-2005, 07:32 PM
#20
TECH Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NX_CaGEdApE00
talked to thunder.. they said they have never used those springs.. so they dont know..
they just said to set up the springs with the closest coil bind possible....
any help?????
they just said to set up the springs with the closest coil bind possible....
any help?????
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Talk to Geoff or Shane.
I am not sure who you talked too here... but here goes: I generally recommend shimming to within .050" of coil bind. Those particular springs will work fine set up like that. They will NOT have too much open pressure shimmed that much. I have run much higher open pressures on hydraulic lifters and they will work just fine.
The problem with not shimming them enough is that you can get into spring surge, where the spring can't control the harmonics. Getting them close to coil bind will stop this from happening.
