WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

cam and headers first, then heads...... I really want the AFR heads... yet 2k is alot! so i am considering the stage 2 patriot headss or a pair for 1k local at rpm, speedtech, or fastech.... most only offer the AFR's though.

I want to pull 400+ at the wheels. I dont want a spring killer type of cam... the TR224 sounds nice... just wondering what it will pull with stock heads and aftermarket springs like the 918's or something (single spring ls6's)

what cam will pull 400 with stock heads on a M6?

can you just add springs on a 230+ duration cam? are the lobes going to be an issue.

as you can tell i have been doing research on this forum... but no one has answered my specific concerns.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....2&postcount=38

RGR Pete

My 224/228 *114 .563 non-spring killer cam put down 383/363 with headers/cats on a A-4. No surging/stalling daily driver. I have added BGRA,ASP pulley and then AFR's. Dyno numbers are not stellar but are over 400. I would have liked to dyno before the heads. If you cut costs don't do it on the heads.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

here is what i have found out so far.....
5.3’s (59cc’s) = 11:1 compression
ls6/ls1 heads (64cc’s)= 10.5:1 compression

210-220 cam….. too small and small gains.. good for street
224-228 cams…… easy on springs….. good street cams and good low end power
232+ cams…… depending on lobes may be good or bad on the springs, rougher idle, higher upper rpm power, and loss of low end torque. most gains on the dyno... more tuning required.... likely need ls6 intake or fast 90/90

XE-R lobes require replacement after wear and tear and miles. anywhere from 20k to 40k... depending on driving style. (i do not want agressive lobes)

114LSA quieter idle.... less surging idle.... rising powerband.
112LSA louder idle..... less drivability...more cammy sound....peak power sooner.... more overall power??

am i correct so far?

SouthFL.02.SS

On an ls1 intake, Reverse split duration. 3.42's out back:
TR 227/224 (Thunder---->).
Comp 918's.

IMO, need for an ls6 intake trumps any of your other mods wished.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

i want an intake... i just planned to put the cam and headers on first. biggest gains for buck

also i plan to run 3.73's..... stock 10 bolt... 100 shot dry for track only.... mt street radials.....ls6 intake...... subframe connectors..... and i am leaning toward a 224/228 cam with 112 lsa...... also i have a set of hooker headers sitting in the garage that are dyin for ceramic coating!

in this order....

3 months: Cam, Headers, and Possibly Heads

after: Subframe Connectors & LS6 intake

then: TB, Maf, Nitrous, and gears

When it dies: 10 bolt replacement!!!!!! probably a 12 bolt will be in order


I had a 99 Grand Am GT Ram Air with nitrous, intake porting, head porting, exhaust, dump, laptop tuning by me, and S & S Headers... it ran 14.7's on motor and 9.3 8th miles.... I was about to get a cam.... then decided to stop wasting money.... and get a real ram air. Starting out with a cam has always been the plan..... !

eamador11

Get the comp 224/228@114 cam. AFR has a custm grind of that spec. part number 6016. it idles almost like stock and will not surge. i dynoed 416rwhp with AFR heads.

i dont think a cam-only will put you over 400 on an LS1 head car.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

i was leaning TR224 or the 224/228...... what is the difference? you talking about the 205cc heads? with the 224/228 and the AFR's i should be around 410+ rwhp?

can i run the 1300.00 patriot heads with either cam..... ? the AFR heads are 2k... patriots are 1300.oo

anyone have dyno numbers on a similiar setup??

thanks guys... i am close to a decision on what to buy!

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

where is it on the site?? what kind of lobes are on that cam?? ramp rate??

SouthFL.02.SS

AFR 205's are making around 420-440ish (and more!) rwhp on 224ish duration cams.
You don't see those numbers regularly out of Patriot, or any other stock GM cast ported heads for that matter, with 224ish cams. The 205's are about velocity.

Either pay $$$ for the AFR's or ET's and keep a smaller cam, or get ported GM castings and get a larger cam for the big peak number setups (450+rwhp).

For 400+rwhp as a goal, you're fine with the 224 cam/ Patriot head combo.

On stock heads, 400+rwhp is doable with 230 duration cam choices also.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

you have been alot of help dude!!!!!!!

i saw the ET site... no prices???

how much??

also if i just put a 224/228 cam or a TR224...... w/ ls6 springs, pushrods and headers what kind of power can i put down until i can fork up 2k for good heads??

SouthFL.02.SS

TR224 (and at least Comp 918's - ls6 springs not an option) is good for 365-390rwhp (up to 400 sometimes- but not the norm) depending on the setup, plus the freak status of your engine.
Things like ls6 intake, UD pulley, and ported TB push the range closer to the higher end.

ls1wannabe

iTrader: (2)

If plans go the way you want them to be prepared to do the 10 bolt a little sooner.

NoGamesLS1

iTrader: (16)

I would do subframe connectors first. Too much power will start to torque your body....not good for the car.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

so what is the difference on a TR224/224-114LSA vs comp 224/228 -114LSA??

which one has more power? are the lobes on the comp the XE's....i heard the TR224 is a little more agressive lobes than the comp XE's..... am i correct?

I need to stop driving my car... it is about to hit 100k! about 30 miles away from there!

I have a Dodge Intrepid company car w/ FREE gas!!!

SouthFL.02.SS

I've never learned exactly what Thunder's lobes are based on. They're more aggressive than XE, yet I'm not sure if they're XE-R.
The Comp 224/228 can be ordered on either XE or XE-R lobes. The small split will help you expell exhaust gases, and if you're running cats, this small increase in exhaust may help.
TR's lift is in the .56x range, Comp's grind usually in the .58x range.
In the end, both will make similar power.

eamador11

im not sure if its on the site. i saw it on their catalog. they are XE-R lobes so they are fast ramp style.

you will make 410+ HP but you also need long tube headers, asp pulley, and a really good tune to 13.1 air fuel ratio. also, whatever heads you choose, mill them to 59cc for more compression. but check with your tuner if you can mill them that much. (PTV clearance)

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

ok.... lets say i go with a XE comp lobe... and a 224/228 stick... 114LSA

and the patriot heads..... I should dyno around 385 with supporting mods?

with AFR 205 heads I should dyno over 420 with supporting mods? man those are some serious heads!!!

i have no cats and don't plan to put em back on.

I would assume gains will be made to get closer to my 400+ goal with LS6 intake, Pulley, TB, ported maf, and if that is not enough for 380 power until I can buy the AFR/ET type heads i will spray for the time being!

eamador11

If you go cam only, youll be around 385-390rwhp. with heads, no matter what brand will put you well over 400hp. I opted for AFRs because of their unique high velocity port design. im pulling on cars with bigger cams than me. dynos are just tuning tools, real performance is on the track or street.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

i have one goal on the street... to run with the new z06's!

SouthFL.02.SS

Heads/cam on a 346ci. can only get you so far. It's possible, but you'd need a max effort setup.
Street driven Max effort setups are making about 480rwhp. Few 346ci's see over 500rwhp.
Your car weighs more and is not geared like them.
You need 125+mph trap potential.