02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

With all of these confusing dyno threads with disappointing results from what looks to be killer combos, I am reluctant to spend over $6k on something that will only produce 50 horses more than I’m making now (400rwhp).

I have talked to a few engine builders and have come up with the following:

408ci iron block
6.0L block
Eagle Forged LS1 Crank 4" Stroke
Callies LS1 Rods
Diamond Pistons w/ –8cc valve relief
Diamond Pro-Select Rings
Federal Mogul Main Bearings
Federal Mogul Rod Bearings
Dura Bond Cam Bearings
ARP Main Studs
Rollmaster Double Roller Timing Chain
Hardened Pushrods
Ported Oil Pump
Comp Replacement Lifters
**See Cam Options Below**
TSP PRC Stage 3 Heads With Chamber Size To Achieve about 11.5:1 Compression
PRC Dual Springs (Rated to .660 Lift)
FAST 90mm Intake
Nick Williams 90mm Throttle Body
42lb Delphi Injectors
ASP 25% Underdrive Pulley
ARP Rod Bolts, Main Bolts and Head Studs
MLS Gaskets all the way

I will be spraying a 150 - 200 wet shot. I think with 11.5:1, I will need to run a nice grade of gas in a dedicated fuel system.

This is going in a 2002 Camaro SS 6-Speed with a Textralia clutch and hopefully the new Dana 60. The car has full suspension and will be getting some nice slicks in the rear for good 60’ times. I will probably only take the car to the track once a month…maybe less. This is more of a street terror.

Let me know what you guys think. No disrespect, but please, if you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, please do not post. I want real and experienced opinions to help me decide. I want similar set-up’s to share results and people who have “been there, done that” to put their 2 cents in.

I’m having a time trying to decide what cam I want. I want something that will idle and I don’t want a cam so big that I have no mid range and have to spin it to 9000000 rpm’s to feel any power.

I have a few options right now:

TSP Giant Cam (248/254, .611"/.613")
FMS custom cam 246/250 .633/.628 112
Some type of custom cam to match the heads…maybe something from Ed.




Thanks in advanced guys. I really appreciate the help in helping me make the correct decisions.

-D-

383ss

iTrader: (14)

I basically have that same FMS cam in my 408 right now except its on a 110lsa. it makes 550rwhp and made 535 rwtq with 1 3/4 headers. if you want a lot of low and mid range stick with a 1 3/4 header. the 1 7/8 dropped my tq by 20ft/lbs
you should be well over 500rwhp with that combo and either of those cams.

hell, I'll sell you mine if your interested. I'd like to go bigger as i am all drag race. its fairly mild for a 408

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

20 ft pounds of torque?! I just called Tbyrne to cancel the 1 7/8 and they said it’s already been ordered. To make matters even shittier, my 1 ¾ Kooks have already been sold and they will be shipping out to the buyer later this week or early next week.

I ******* hate all of the internet know it all’s…(not you 383, and thanks for the help) Everyone, including internet sponsors say to go to the 1 7/8 headers. I guess I’ll change my order to the 1 ¾ that I just sold, oh well, I’ll be getting them ceramic coated anyway.

Maybe I can cancel the order, eat the 10% fee and then order some QTP HVMC’s. What do you think?

s346k

iTrader: (4)

...i don't think you should base what parts you order on a few opinions. everyone has a different setup, which means they all will get different results.

if you're going to drop $6k on a motor, one would think hours upon hours of research would be invested. hell, i've invested hours upon hours of research just for a cam in my stock shortblock 346.

you can get pretty wild with cams having 408 cubes to soak it up. i'd suggest simply calling a sponsor, giving them your entire setup + goals, and let them suggest one. maybe contact 3 different sponsors, ultimately giving you 3 different choices. then combine all 3 into one custom grind.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

totally up to you and what you want to do with your car. I think my dyno results speak for themselves. I've stated that info in about a dozen threads, but not may people listen gained 5rwhp peak, but it did draw my powerband out nicely above 6000. nice for a drag car, but probably not for a street car.

here it is again....

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/296165-1-3-4-vs-1-7-8-header-dyno-results.html

DavidNJ

One post by one person with an somewhat different configuration reports the results of one dyno by an unnamed tuner and you are having fits about 1/8" in header size? You could probably see that difference between header brands.

Car needs Prozac...

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

No offense, but just because I mentioned something about these headers and what people online say, I have actually spend the better part of 6 months looking for head/cam combos that work, options on engine sizes, debated forever over what I was going to do for a power adder, talked to over 8 engine builders, asked about everything from bearings to heads.

I have done my homework and am ready to jump. Everyone has a different opinion. I have been told cam sizes from a 236/242 all the way up to a 252/258. Every engine builder has told me something different. That’s why I wanted to make a thread and have people who have done these combos before and achieved good results comment on my possible set-up.



383, thanks for posting the graph. I see what you mean. I'm sure I have read your posts before about this but I get flustered reading 1000 posts a day trying get my **** right! LoL

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

Well, it's a trade off. From what I understand, I will loose low end torque but since I'm going to spray, I would benifit from the larger primaries. I'll just suffer the hit in town for the gain on the track/street when spraying.

David, The car doesn't need Prozac...I do.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

well, not many have actual results you can see. most just 'say' 408's need 1 7/8 headers. its just not true. just like they say 408's need 3XXcfm head flow sorry if me sharing and stating my opinion and facts offends you.

the tuner is ME. a/f was the same between runs.

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

Not to mention I am not changing header brands. I would be going from Kooks 1 3/4 headers to Kooks 1 7/8 headers. There is no brand change. Also, I would rather take advice from someone who is damn near in the 9's with the same combo as the one I'm getting ready to buy who happens to be running the same cam as I will be getting with a little variation in the LSA. 383, what heads do you have on your motor? Do you think that same cam on a 113 LSA would still be putting out good power with 11.5:1 compression?

s346k

iTrader: (4)

if you had "done your homework" for 6 months or more, i think you'd know a great deal MORE about your setup. hence you wouldn't be attempting to cancel orders on headers after reading one post about the loss of mid-range. perhaps you'd already know that larger header primaries will compromise mid-range, but propel high rpm power. the same with cam specs. you'd know what cam does what in a 408 cid motor. evidently not...i just hope you kept your part receipts, the more you read, the more you'll be calling sponsors wanting to swap.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

I have a set of 5.7L heads ported by a guy in wichita. 236cc runners with great mid/low flow. 2.08 intake valve. I actually swapped from a 2.02 to the 2.08 valve and didn't gain any power.
ya, it would be a good cam for that compression ratio.

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

Thanks for the info. I was thinking about the Patriot Stage 3's with a finishing hand port but FFHP told me that the PRC Stage 3's didn't need the hand porting and would give me a better result with a larger cam. I've read up on a few threads and had another engine builder suggest the Patriots. I was kinda torn but decided after seeing pictures of the port work and such, to go with the PRC's. Hopefully they will be nice. They have very nice flow numbers in the .200-.400 region and also flow nicely on the top end. We'll see how it works out.

I'm a college kid who has been saving his *** off so you can understand how gun shy I am about dropping serious cash on this set-up because I want to do it right the first time. I guess we'll see how it goes. Thanks for the help!

DavidNJ

You're stuff was fine...very informative. The reaction to it was extreme.

02 Black Bullet, we know you want information. You just are asking in a very hostile way.

P.S.
At the track, you could end up aggravating the officials, who will make your life quite miserable.

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

You have to understand where I'm coming from. LoL. I just had a bit of an f-ed up brain fart and everyone started jumping my ****. That's the only reason I got hostile. Just look at my posts. I had no problems with 383 but everyone else kinda started in on me and telling my in lesser words that I was a dumb ****…mainly 346 but I didn't mean to come off as harsh or offensive. I've just been told a million and one things by engine builders and ls1techies alike. It just gets aggravating when someone new to a big CI motor asks for information and people jump on my nuts. No offence meant but sometimes the internet has the funny way of people not being understood in the manner they would like because we lack the tone of voice from a face to face conversation and such.

What do you mean about pissing the track officials off? I didn't follow there?

s346k

iTrader: (4)

you've offered no insight to your goals other than a "street terror, at the track maybe once a month".

i wasn't trying to come off like a dick. i'm sorry if you took it that way, but look at the information we have to "help" you pick a cam. next to none...

that means, by default..this is just another "choose my cam for me" thread.

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

Cool, again, it's the internet tone of voice misunderstanding. Sorry for snapping since now I know you didn't mean it in that way.

Here is what I'm shooting for:

I'll be running a Dand 60 with 27" MT Slicks. I'll have 3:73's. I'll have MT street radials for the street so I can hook this beotch. LoL

I'llbe taking it to the track in hopes of being in the 10's N/A and I'm not even sure if I will be able to pass tech with the nitrous on because of not having a roll bar…yes I know it's dumb not to have one but I'm sure I'll bite the bullet later this summer. It's mainly going to be a street monster. as it stands, I have a .233 .239 112 lsa TSP grind with a shitty tune. It's really fat, bogs at take off but has some nice grunt to it in the higher RPM's. I make the power all the way to about 6600 and shift at 6750 or so.

I was leaning more toward the Futral grind because I have seen proven track times with this cam and they are all very impressive. If it's a fast 6 speed on the track, it will be a fast 6 speed on the street and damn near deadly on the hose. Although I do not want to get wrapped up in Hp number wars, I would like to shoot for between 500 and 550 just as a general reference point... but as I have said before, I would like 10's Na...trapping around 130 wouldn't be bad either. LoL

I don't mind spinning it untill the necessary RPM where the optimal shift point is but I don't want to spin a long stroke and big bore motor to 7k or anything. That's why I opted for something near the 113 Lsa so I don't have to spin the hell out of it. What else would you like to know or need to know to help you guys help me out? LoL, Help you...help me. haha

s346k

iTrader: (4)

..to be honest, man, you'd probably spin MORE with a 113 lsa than you would with something tighter. the wider lsa will push the peak numbers up. it seems the general rule of thumb for stroker motors is going with a 114 lsa. i guess it all depends...i'd opt for a 108 or something, but that's just because i'm a track junky. the large cubes will give you a lot of low end grunt, regardless of cam choice, so i wouldn't be too worried about that. you could benefit quite a bit from a larger cam with that compression and air/fuel setup. the texas giant cam is on a 113 lsa, i believe...and i think that would be a good choice of the given cams. everyone who is running edc cams are happy with them, as well. personally, i'd opt for the custom grind. you'd have to add a LOT of duration to birth a need for 7k shift points in a 408.

02BlackBullet

iTrader: (60)

Yeah, I'm looking for probably around the same shift points that I currently have and I'm sure whatever cam I get will not need to be shifted in the 7k range. I'm just GUESSING but I would bet I'll be shifting around 6750 to 6850 with any of the above listed grinds on a 114. I would actually like the 114 or 113 because of the better idle over the 112 and down. LoL, I couldn't possibly go with a 108...much less anything close to that. I'm not that much of a track junkie. LoL.

I'll talk to Ed and see what he says, I'll also put a call in to Futral and TSP and see what they say. I have made up my mind on everything but the cam so I've got to nail that down and I'm pretty sure I'll be ready for a fat order. The Giant doesnt seem that giant when compared a few other 408 cams I have seen. We'll see what comes about. Thanks for the input.

Oh...and what's up with the lift on the Giant? it seems pretty docile when comparted to the duration. It seems like I would benefit from the higher lift with my intake and exhaust capabilities but I guess it's not needed huh?

383ss

iTrader: (14)

I'd have to disagree with that also. my little 246/250 shift points are 6900rpm.
like its been mentioned, if you're spending the cash, get a custom grind from a reputible shop, EDC would be my choice.