Heads, Can, & Intake Turns Into A Nightmare
04-03-2006, 10:39 PM
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Heads, Can, & Intake Turns Into A Nightmare I had my K-member dropped out from under my car in December. The plan was to install AFR 205cc Mongoose heads (milled .011"), a FAST 90MM intake, 90 MM throttle body, '03 Z06 MAF, and a Comp cam...224*/228*, .581/.588, 114*LSA, a Melling H/D ported oil pump, Comp Hi-Tech chromemoly pushrods, LS2 timing chain, and a SPEC Stage IV clutch, pressure plate, and billet steel flywheel.
I got everything apart, and a few guys from the car club came over to help me get everything put together. That's when The owner of the speed shop i bought all my parts from notices that my front cam bearing is wiped. We run over to my neighbor's house, borrow his cherry-picker, and get the engine off the K-member, and bolted onto my engine stand. By this time, it's 1:00AM, and everyone calls it a night.
The next day, I'm tearing down the bottom end, and I almost started crying: all 8 rod bearings were scored, all 5 mains were scored, all the cam bearings were wiped, and every journal on the crank was scored. I took a close look at the block, which turns out to be an LS6, and almost every cast/machined surface on it was full of burrs. Apparently, after casting & machining the block, it was not de-burred. I was flicking pieces of aluminum off just about every edge, the internally threaded studs that hold the lifter trays in place had HUGE burrs all the way around their circumference, and any edge on the top, sides, or bottom of the block would lay your finger wide open if you rubbed it along one of the edges. The semi-circular bottoms of the cylinder bores had burrs that had to be 1/16" high, all the way around. Every coolant passage, oil gallery, bore,...you name it...if it wasn't loaded with burrs, it was razor-sharp.
It took me two nights, at 5 to 6 hours each night, to hand de-burr the block. For 23,000 miles, aluminum chips had been falling into the rotating assembly.
One of the guys from the car club says, "Well, you've got 'er down to a bare block....if you've ever had any ideas about goin' wild, now's the time to do it. I decided to go the stroker route. The bottom end is getting an Eagle 4340 4" forged stroker crank, Callies Compstar 6.125" forged H-beam rods, and Diamond custom forged 3.905" bore flat-top pistons. I sold the AFR 205's, and ordered the 225cc Mongoose heads, and went with a new Comp Cam; 234*/240*, .598/.609, 112* LSA. I also got a new set of Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and a set of 42LB injectors.
The only thing holding me up, is waiting for the AFR heads. The block goes out next week for torque plate honing, block clearancing for the longer rods, align honing, and hot-tanking. I sold the catted y-pipe, and bought a Kooks off-road pipe to go with the Kooks stainless long-tubes, and stainless Magnaflow cat-back. It already had an LS1 Motorsports lid.
Before I tore her down, I had her dynoed to get some baseline numbers. With just the Kooks/Magnaflow and the lid, the best pull put down 350 RWHP/388 RWTQ. I wish those heads would get here...I can't wait to see what this thing puts down when she's back together. I'm having it dyno-tuned (HPTuners) the second I get it running good enough to drive it to the dyno shop.
So, from a $3,700.00 winter project, I now have over 7 large into the engine. I was VERY disappointed with the lack of quality control regarding the block. It was so bad, it was laughable. I'm going to laugh out loud when I grenade the OEM 10-bolt, too. Oh well, I had planned to install a Moser non c-clip 12-bolt next winter, anyway. God, things went south in a big hurry on this project............
I got everything apart, and a few guys from the car club came over to help me get everything put together. That's when The owner of the speed shop i bought all my parts from notices that my front cam bearing is wiped. We run over to my neighbor's house, borrow his cherry-picker, and get the engine off the K-member, and bolted onto my engine stand. By this time, it's 1:00AM, and everyone calls it a night.
The next day, I'm tearing down the bottom end, and I almost started crying: all 8 rod bearings were scored, all 5 mains were scored, all the cam bearings were wiped, and every journal on the crank was scored. I took a close look at the block, which turns out to be an LS6, and almost every cast/machined surface on it was full of burrs. Apparently, after casting & machining the block, it was not de-burred. I was flicking pieces of aluminum off just about every edge, the internally threaded studs that hold the lifter trays in place had HUGE burrs all the way around their circumference, and any edge on the top, sides, or bottom of the block would lay your finger wide open if you rubbed it along one of the edges. The semi-circular bottoms of the cylinder bores had burrs that had to be 1/16" high, all the way around. Every coolant passage, oil gallery, bore,...you name it...if it wasn't loaded with burrs, it was razor-sharp.
It took me two nights, at 5 to 6 hours each night, to hand de-burr the block. For 23,000 miles, aluminum chips had been falling into the rotating assembly.
One of the guys from the car club says, "Well, you've got 'er down to a bare block....if you've ever had any ideas about goin' wild, now's the time to do it. I decided to go the stroker route. The bottom end is getting an Eagle 4340 4" forged stroker crank, Callies Compstar 6.125" forged H-beam rods, and Diamond custom forged 3.905" bore flat-top pistons. I sold the AFR 205's, and ordered the 225cc Mongoose heads, and went with a new Comp Cam; 234*/240*, .598/.609, 112* LSA. I also got a new set of Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and a set of 42LB injectors.
The only thing holding me up, is waiting for the AFR heads. The block goes out next week for torque plate honing, block clearancing for the longer rods, align honing, and hot-tanking. I sold the catted y-pipe, and bought a Kooks off-road pipe to go with the Kooks stainless long-tubes, and stainless Magnaflow cat-back. It already had an LS1 Motorsports lid.
Before I tore her down, I had her dynoed to get some baseline numbers. With just the Kooks/Magnaflow and the lid, the best pull put down 350 RWHP/388 RWTQ. I wish those heads would get here...I can't wait to see what this thing puts down when she's back together. I'm having it dyno-tuned (HPTuners) the second I get it running good enough to drive it to the dyno shop.
So, from a $3,700.00 winter project, I now have over 7 large into the engine. I was VERY disappointed with the lack of quality control regarding the block. It was so bad, it was laughable. I'm going to laugh out loud when I grenade the OEM 10-bolt, too. Oh well, I had planned to install a Moser non c-clip 12-bolt next winter, anyway. God, things went south in a big hurry on this project............
04-03-2006, 10:56 PM
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It sucks that you had a bad run of luck, but....just think if the speed shop owner hadn't noticed!! It's always good to have an extra set of eyes (or two) around!! Count your blessings and enjoy your newfound POWER!! 
04-03-2006, 11:58 PM
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That does it! I'm never taking my motor apart! Just joking... 
What an experience! Hope you enjoy the new motor. I'm sure you will. Sorry to hear about all the troubles.
Ben T.
What an experience! Hope you enjoy the new motor. I'm sure you will. Sorry to hear about all the troubles.
Ben T.
04-07-2006, 11:12 PM
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Well, I learned quite a bit tearing the engine down to the bare block. I would not be afraid to attempt reassembly, except for the lower half.
I wish I could have kept the AFR 205cc Mongoose heads, but the speed shop owner said they just would not be a good match with the stroker set-up and wilder cam. Those heads were works of art, sculpted in aluminum. But God Almighty! Be prepared to wait when you order a set of heads from AFR. I'll never put anything else but AFR on any LSx I own, but sometimes it seems like they deliver the damn things on horseback. Yeah, I know, the wait will be worth it....it's just that the heads are all that's holding me up right now, the weather's starting to turn around, and I'm getting impatient....
I wish I could have kept the AFR 205cc Mongoose heads, but the speed shop owner said they just would not be a good match with the stroker set-up and wilder cam. Those heads were works of art, sculpted in aluminum. But God Almighty! Be prepared to wait when you order a set of heads from AFR. I'll never put anything else but AFR on any LSx I own, but sometimes it seems like they deliver the damn things on horseback. Yeah, I know, the wait will be worth it....it's just that the heads are all that's holding me up right now, the weather's starting to turn around, and I'm getting impatient....
04-07-2006, 11:24 PM
#6
Yeah, I know, the wait will be worth it....it's just that the heads are all that's holding me up right now, the weather's starting to turn around, and I'm getting impatient....
BTW, when you changed the oil did you never noticealuminum shavings being drained out?
04-07-2006, 11:39 PM
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Sounds like you got a great project ahead of you man, good luck. I know the feeling of rapidly escalating costs, but I didn't want to wait so I just got some patriot heads on the exact cam you originally had and did well. The numbers with your stroker setup should be insane! 
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04-07-2006, 11:51 PM
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Whats so potentialy bad for all of us is this is the second story of,...."less than great finnish quality on internals" I mean burrs??? man whats going on?? I think that for me its cam only now for sure! after dick cheny and burrs I just dont want to know!
04-08-2006, 12:07 AM
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"BTW, when you changed the oil did you never noticealuminum shavings being drained out?"
No. But when I cleaned the pan, there was a pool of oil in the pick-up tube recess that looked like metal flake paint. I think most of the chips just got embedded in the rotating assembly. You should see the babbit on the rod & mains....dozens of score marks in every one of 'em, with a fleck of aluminum embedded at the end of each score mark. I can see how aluminum could score babbit, but I was shocked at how deeply it scored the crank journals.
And now I'm wondering if all 5 cam bearings were wiped because of contamination, or from oil starvation due to the POS OEM oil pump. 23,000K on the clock, and every cam bearing showed copper all the way around the bearing I.D. Everyone who saw the block before I de-burred it, said they would have thought I was exaggerating if they hadn't seen it with their own eyes. It was a mess. My neighbor has re-built quite a few Chevy small & big block engines. When he saw the crank, he couldn't believe it came out of my car. He told me he'd rebuilt a 327 out of a station wagon, back when people used to change/add oil when they thought about it, and he'd never seen a crank as bad as mine.
No. But when I cleaned the pan, there was a pool of oil in the pick-up tube recess that looked like metal flake paint. I think most of the chips just got embedded in the rotating assembly. You should see the babbit on the rod & mains....dozens of score marks in every one of 'em, with a fleck of aluminum embedded at the end of each score mark. I can see how aluminum could score babbit, but I was shocked at how deeply it scored the crank journals.
And now I'm wondering if all 5 cam bearings were wiped because of contamination, or from oil starvation due to the POS OEM oil pump. 23,000K on the clock, and every cam bearing showed copper all the way around the bearing I.D. Everyone who saw the block before I de-burred it, said they would have thought I was exaggerating if they hadn't seen it with their own eyes. It was a mess. My neighbor has re-built quite a few Chevy small & big block engines. When he saw the crank, he couldn't believe it came out of my car. He told me he'd rebuilt a 327 out of a station wagon, back when people used to change/add oil when they thought about it, and he'd never seen a crank as bad as mine.