ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I've got a 408 setup with 11.1:1 SCR with 317's,a 244/248 .635/.627 112, LS6 intake, and stock ported tb that netted me 425/445. What's gonna get me to AT LEAST 500hp while not breaking the bank? I'm leaning towards the Dart 225's but I'm really not sure that would get me there. I'm not looking to spend $3k on ETP heads, so those are out. What I'm looking for are some budget heads (hence my inclination to go with the Dart's) that I can spend $1k - $1500 on now, net some good gains, and in the future add a 90/90 when I save up some more money to better utilize the heads and boost me over the 500 mark.

Nate_Taufer

iTrader: (1)

I don't know if going with the DART's would take your DCR too high. You're talking about dropping 10 cc's out of the chamber and still having it run on pump gas. If it were me I would send my 317's to TEA and let them go to town.

Nate

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

That is a viable option as well. I was not aware that the Dart's didn't come in larger cc applications. I'm more than willing to have my 317's worked on as long as it's within the budget.

skipperbisket

iTrader: (4)

the dart heads come std. with a 62cc chamber, and i talked to them a few weeks ago about a bigger chamber and they say that they will not be making anything with a bigger chamber unless the market requires so (which it most likely will not) the darts are a nice head and i considered them myself, but like nate said, i would take those 317s you already have, sent them off to ETP or TEA and have a bad *** port job done, and probably valvejob and maybe some 2.02/1.60 valves (i have a brand new set of those for sale btw...) and i would probably mill them a little to get the compression to 11.5-11.75:1.

i would say something like that, using the heads you already have, you could probably come out right at $1,000 and have a nice set of heads and the 500rwhp you're looking for.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Well, I would like to stay below 12:1 SCR for tune and driveability issues. If someone could figure out my DCR (and inform me how to do it in the future) that'd be a huge help as well. I can email the cam specs.

Any more info from anyone who has had some head work done by TEA or ETP?

skipperbisket

iTrader: (4)

i have ETP LS6 heads on the way for my new 346 and i expect 500+rwhp with my new solid roller. ETP does some pro stock heads so you know they have their ducks in a row. give them a call and give them the info on your short block, pistons, and gaskets and they will tell you exactly what cc chamber you'll need to get whatever CR you desire.

cws T/A

iTrader: (3)

skipperbisket what did those run you $$ wise im thinking of doing the same

skipperbisket

iTrader: (4)

cws, i don't even remember what i paid for them, i bought heads, cam, lifters, pushrods, headers, and intake all at the same time. give HPE a call and talk to Erik he'll know how much.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Are you running a stick or an automatic?

Asking to gain 75rwhp 317s with heads alone isn't going to happen. You're going to need more airflow coming in before the heads. A velocity-ported FAST 90/90 is a must. After that, any good quality head will help, but keep in mind, without a better intake manifold, your gains are going to be ho-hum at best. To exceed 500 rwhp on a 408 means your motor's going to need to BREATHE!

383ss

iTrader: (14)

get yor 317's ported, port your TB and get at least a FAST 78mm. 90 preferred, but I know it costs a lot more. with my 383 I gained no peak power from a 78 to a 90mm fast

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Patrick - It's an M6. I know high flowing heads are worthless without the means of getting all that air to them. I just want to get the heads done first and then work on induction.

383 - thanks for the info about the 78 vs 90, I'll keep that in mind.

zo6vetteman2003

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you really want to stay below the 12.0:1 or be forced to run race fuel lol! I would also recommend doing everything you can to keep it running cool as possible. As for the heads, I was just looking at a new set that is out by Warhawk. Here is a link to a recent article on Bill Mitchell Racing Products. www.theengineshop.com http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...8gmhtp_motown/

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I'm not sure I would have to run race fuel but the tune would certainly have to be dead on when getting that high of SCR, which I'm trying to avoid if possible. I just emailed ETP and TEA about porting my 317's. Anyone else have any input on this? If you have porting experience with either of those two I'd appreciate that info as well.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Seems the AFR 225 is a logical choice considering your goals and constraints...Seems more 402/408 builds (with M6's) are making greater than 500 RWHP than less than that figure when combined with other typical bolt-on's and of course the 225 AFR's.

Proven...stronger aftermarket casting....room to grow powerwise in the future, and while not the cheapest, it isn't the most expensive option either....especially when purchased thru one of our authorized dealers.

Am I missing something here?

Good luck either way...

Tony M.

Edit....Just re-read the original post. Seems we are a little off on price, but pay a little now or a lot more later if your utimately going to look for the most from you final combination....and we (racers) always do.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Tony, not gonna lie and say that the AFR 225's aren't great heads because I've definitely seen a lot of great results. However, I'm pretty sure these heads will be my last big mod on the car and I'm not looking to spend huge bucks on them. I don't go to the track because I never have time and this is a semi-daily driver. I'm just trying to squeeze a decent bit more out of my 408 before I call it quits on the big power mods with my car. I've got other financial things coming up so whichever route I go on heads (and then induction) will be my last hurrah in the hp department. I just can't afford it after this. So, I'm trying to go out with a bang (for the buck, and not from behind). It seems as though sending my 317's are the best option I've heard and looked into thus far. If I had the money, I'd be going AFR's or ETP's, but the fact of the matter is I don't. I've got around $2k max for heads and induction, so I'm trying to figure the balance between the two.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

IMO, there's a 30 rwhp swing with a properly ported FAST 90/90 on a 408 vs. running a ported stock TB and LS6 intake. Heck, it was worth 28 rwhp on my 346! Click signature if you want to see the dyno sheet. You're not going to see 30 rwhp difference between a ported 317 and the best AFR 225 or ET 225/245. I'd have ET or TEA port the 317s and spend the extra cash on a ported FAST. That's the best bang for the buck IMO.

Of course, if you have the bucks, then my recommendation goes to the aftermarket castings.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

That's exactly what I'm thinking Patrick. Who ports FAST's (well)?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Tony Mamo's porting has consistently shown gains over stock FASTs for many many people on this board. PM him and see how he can help.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I have emails in to TEA, ETP, and Tony

chriswtx

iTrader: (5)

Also, TSP(Texas Speed) quoted me $550 to CNC port my 317 heads if I sent them in clean and bare...Maybe another choice for you...Try Jason at TSP for more info..