Patriot 243 Heads & ?? Cam & some quick questions for the gurus
09-07-2006, 12:21 AM
#1
Patriot 243 Heads & ?? Cam & some quick questions for the gurus Hey guys whats up? I placed an order a couple of weeks ago with Gunnar from Patriot for the 243 casting heads with stock sized valves. I can't wait for them to get in and get them running on my car. I have an FM13 cam in the car now with stock heads, but I'm looking to go bigger. I went with the stock valves so that I wouldn't run into problems like having to flycut my pistons. I am curious if the new MS4 cam from TSP require any flycutting, and do you guys think it would be a good match for these heads? I understand that the G5X3 is risky and may require flycutting, so I've ruled that out, but there's still some other cam choices that I am considering and I would like your guys input.
Here are the options I've narrowed down to:
TSP MS4 239/242 .649/.609 111 LSA
TSP MS3 237/242 .603/.609 112 LSA
TSP Torquer V3 231/234 .643/.598 111 LSA
Thunder TREX v2 242/248 .608/.612 110 LSA
Thunder TRAK 231/234 .640/.590 112 LSA
I already have most supporting mods from my cam swap, but am wondering if there is anything else I may need to make this swap safe (i.e. upgraded injectors, upgraded fuel pump, etc.) I'll post my complete mod list at the bottom of this post, if you guys could just glance over it and see if there is anything else you think I should add to the list to make this 100% safe and complete the swap successfully.
I have already ordered the heads, GM head bolt kit, GM drivers and passengers side head gaskets, and Comp Cams OE Hydraulic Roller Rockers.
Here's my complete mod list:
Pro 5.0 Shifter, Lou's short stick, !CAGS skip shift eliminator, SLP Air Lid w/ GREEN Filter, 1 3/4 inch Kooks ceramic coated Headers w/ catted y-pipe, SLP Loudmouth Exhaust System, NGK TR55 plugs, Taylor 10.4mm .409 Race Wires, BMR Strut Tower Brace, BMR Subframe Connectors, Harlan Shift Light, GM LS6 Intake Manifold, !EGR, !AIR, Jantzer Ported TB, Sure Stop Rotors, Hawke Pads, SLP Line Lock, Moser 12 bolt w/ 4.11s, Spohn Torque Arm w/ driveshaft loop, UMI Lower Control Arms, Futral Motorsports FM13 Cam (230/232 .595/.585 112LSA), Patriot Gold Dual Valve Springs, retainers, seats, locks, seals, chromemoly pushrods, Rollmaster Double Roller Adjustable Timing Chain, ported LS6 Oil Pump, ASP Crank Pulley
Thanks so much for your replies and help guys
Here are the options I've narrowed down to:
TSP MS4 239/242 .649/.609 111 LSA
TSP MS3 237/242 .603/.609 112 LSA
TSP Torquer V3 231/234 .643/.598 111 LSA
Thunder TREX v2 242/248 .608/.612 110 LSA
Thunder TRAK 231/234 .640/.590 112 LSA
I already have most supporting mods from my cam swap, but am wondering if there is anything else I may need to make this swap safe (i.e. upgraded injectors, upgraded fuel pump, etc.) I'll post my complete mod list at the bottom of this post, if you guys could just glance over it and see if there is anything else you think I should add to the list to make this 100% safe and complete the swap successfully.
I have already ordered the heads, GM head bolt kit, GM drivers and passengers side head gaskets, and Comp Cams OE Hydraulic Roller Rockers.
Here's my complete mod list:
Pro 5.0 Shifter, Lou's short stick, !CAGS skip shift eliminator, SLP Air Lid w/ GREEN Filter, 1 3/4 inch Kooks ceramic coated Headers w/ catted y-pipe, SLP Loudmouth Exhaust System, NGK TR55 plugs, Taylor 10.4mm .409 Race Wires, BMR Strut Tower Brace, BMR Subframe Connectors, Harlan Shift Light, GM LS6 Intake Manifold, !EGR, !AIR, Jantzer Ported TB, Sure Stop Rotors, Hawke Pads, SLP Line Lock, Moser 12 bolt w/ 4.11s, Spohn Torque Arm w/ driveshaft loop, UMI Lower Control Arms, Futral Motorsports FM13 Cam (230/232 .595/.585 112LSA), Patriot Gold Dual Valve Springs, retainers, seats, locks, seals, chromemoly pushrods, Rollmaster Double Roller Adjustable Timing Chain, ported LS6 Oil Pump, ASP Crank Pulley
Thanks so much for your replies and help guys
09-07-2006, 01:51 PM
#4
The heads aren't gonna be milled at all I don't believe. The ones I ordered are the number one choice in this thread https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/544423-new-243-castings-385-00-per-pair.html
09-07-2006, 02:03 PM
#5
A good deal of power is left on the table by not milling. You'll already be gaining compression with the 243's, but there's still room for more. I'm almost positive PP does a "clean up" mill on most heads they send out so just be aware. Personally I'd keep the F13 and do a bit of a mill to up the compression. You already have a good cam. Also be sure to get a good gasket. I'd recommend a .040 cometic with copper spray to get the dynamic compression up.
09-07-2006, 02:11 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Xtnct00WS6
A good deal of power is left on the table by not milling. You'll already be gaining compression with the 243's, but there's still room for more. I'm almost positive PP does a "clean up" mill on most heads they send out so just be aware.
Unless requested, we only do a very light clean up mill. Usually in the .004" range.
09-07-2006, 02:18 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Xtnct00WS6
A good deal of power is left on the table by not milling. You'll already be gaining compression with the 243's, but there's still room for more. I'm almost positive PP does a "clean up" mill on most heads they send out so just be aware. Personally I'd keep the F13 and do a bit of a mill to up the compression. You already have a good cam. Also be sure to get a good gasket. I'd recommend a .040 cometic with copper spray to get the dynamic compression up.
The reason I'm getting rid of the FM13 is because I don't think its right. The car never made the power it should and I've had a bad tick in my engine bay. I've been thinking it came out of that bad batch from Futral, so I'm looking at going bigger. With HAL QA1s and slicks and skinnies I'm looking for very low 11s. I think thats very possible with these heads and one of the cams I listed above.
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09-07-2006, 02:46 PM
#8
It's been recommended by people far more knowledgeable than myself:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....42&postcount=4
It helps with quench and dynamic compression. That post above was speaking in terms of AFR heads, but the principle of a tight quench and good dynamic compression is the same for the LSx engine. That recipe has been proven over and over so why mess with success?
See if u can find one of those compression calculators (pianoprodigy's or j-rod's) and plug in different gasket thicknesses and see how that affects the #'s. It's a big factor.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....42&postcount=4
It helps with quench and dynamic compression. That post above was speaking in terms of AFR heads, but the principle of a tight quench and good dynamic compression is the same for the LSx engine. That recipe has been proven over and over so why mess with success?
See if u can find one of those compression calculators (pianoprodigy's or j-rod's) and plug in different gasket thicknesses and see how that affects the #'s. It's a big factor.
09-08-2006, 12:31 PM
#9
Wow I always thought most people ran stock GM head gaskets for most heads/cam combinations. I never really thought about changing the compression with a thicker or thinner gasket. So aside from everything I have bought, what exactly would you recommend I do for this heads/cam combination?
09-10-2006, 12:56 PM
#11
just mill the heads to 11:1 compression, use the .040 gasket and u'll have a great combo. I'd inspect the old cam and lifters to see if the lobes are damaged and if they're not, I'd be tempted to keep it. One thing to keep in mind is that if you do mill to 11:1, you'll probably need to flycut for any of the cams ur considering.
09-10-2006, 09:17 PM
#13
Id be willing to bet that if he keeps the stock gasket thickness, stock valves, and only uses the clean up mill from Patriot, then he'd probably be fine. Milling for compression is a great way to get power though. Any more milling, then it'll start to get close.
