Tapping noise - problem solved!
10-12-2006, 05:25 PM
#1
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Tapping noise - problem solved! In my last post on the tapping noise coming form the engine, I was having trouble locating the source of the noise. It was intermittent, had a kind of cycle where it would come and go, sometimes very loud, sometimes not and sometimes it sounded more like a rattling noise than I steady tap.
The lifters, cam and heads had about 5k miles on them so I didn’t suspect lifters but it sure sounded like it.
Well I began to open it up to locate the source and when I got the cam out it all started to make sense. (See the link to the photos below).
The cam was apparently one of the bad F13 cams and had several lobes that were badly damaged and lifters had also been chewed up.
My major concern now was how much damage this shower of crumbling metal from the cam and lifters had caused to the engine itself. I opened up the oil pump and the gears had some damage so I knew that would need to be fixed but the pump is before the filter, so I was hopeful that the filter had trapped most of the metal before it did too much harm. I looked as closely as I could at the cam bearings and they seemed be OK.
I proceeded to take off the heads to replace the lifters. I had the heads milled .018 while they were off – should have done that the first time round and got a Cometic .040 to give me a 63cc chamber, 10.8 SCR and 8.28 DCR and a quench of .033 (conferred and agreed this plan with AFR).
I had done a leak down and compression test prior to starting the work so I had a good baseline and didn’t expect to find much in the way of problems in the cylinder bores.
Took care of the pump and replaced the cam with the milder of the AFR recommended cams – 220 224 581 581 114 +4 (also conferred and agreed with AFR to give me more torque down low and a milder setup overall), degreed the cam in (it was right on the money) and buttoned up the front. Lifters were replaced with Comp OEs and new lifter trays were installed as well.
I replaced the double springs that came with the AFR heads with Comp 918s to reduce the load on the valve train and take advantage of the beehive technology. Buttoned up the rest torqueing everything to spec and took special care in the deck prep and cleaning of the bolt holes. Replaced the 7.350 pushrods with 7.400s for a preload of about 65 to 80.
I cranked it over with the PCM/IGN fuse removed for three 5 second spins and the oil pressure came up strong on the third spin. Hooked it back up and she started right up and found idle in about 15 seconds. No leaks (I was really worried with the Cometics) and she runs really strong.
The valvetrain is really quiet now – no more tapping and very little sewing machine sound – almost stock sounding!
The torque is really excellent with this new set up, it keeps spinning the tires even on mild acceleration from stops. Mileage is way up, and drivability is much improved.
I need to get it retuned now but if the way it runs now is any indication, I should be in good shape.
Futral was contacted about this as soon as I saw the cam and they offered only a replacement cam even though there is a known problem with this run of F13s. So no compensation for the lifters, oil pump, gasket sets, or labor even though in my view they are liable for the damage done by their defective part.
I know many of you that had this problem were satisfied that Futral offered to make good on the cam but I am not, and will not do business with Futral or Camotion again. It would have cost them very little to make a client happy but instead they chose the absolute minimum – their choice to make because I am not going to incur legal expenses for this small amount – but my choice too, I won’t do business with you if I am not valued as a customer.
This not to say Futral or Camotion have bad products, or that they necessarily have bad service, just that in this instance I think they did not treat me right and they no longer have me as a client.
Anyway, it really runs and sounds good now so I am really happy that I was able to locate the tapping, get it all done myself and have it turn out this well (800 miles on it so far and no problems), will get it tuned next week.
http://ImageEvent.com/daddyss/eginework
The lifters, cam and heads had about 5k miles on them so I didn’t suspect lifters but it sure sounded like it.
Well I began to open it up to locate the source and when I got the cam out it all started to make sense. (See the link to the photos below).
The cam was apparently one of the bad F13 cams and had several lobes that were badly damaged and lifters had also been chewed up.
My major concern now was how much damage this shower of crumbling metal from the cam and lifters had caused to the engine itself. I opened up the oil pump and the gears had some damage so I knew that would need to be fixed but the pump is before the filter, so I was hopeful that the filter had trapped most of the metal before it did too much harm. I looked as closely as I could at the cam bearings and they seemed be OK.
I proceeded to take off the heads to replace the lifters. I had the heads milled .018 while they were off – should have done that the first time round and got a Cometic .040 to give me a 63cc chamber, 10.8 SCR and 8.28 DCR and a quench of .033 (conferred and agreed this plan with AFR).
I had done a leak down and compression test prior to starting the work so I had a good baseline and didn’t expect to find much in the way of problems in the cylinder bores.
Took care of the pump and replaced the cam with the milder of the AFR recommended cams – 220 224 581 581 114 +4 (also conferred and agreed with AFR to give me more torque down low and a milder setup overall), degreed the cam in (it was right on the money) and buttoned up the front. Lifters were replaced with Comp OEs and new lifter trays were installed as well.
I replaced the double springs that came with the AFR heads with Comp 918s to reduce the load on the valve train and take advantage of the beehive technology. Buttoned up the rest torqueing everything to spec and took special care in the deck prep and cleaning of the bolt holes. Replaced the 7.350 pushrods with 7.400s for a preload of about 65 to 80.
I cranked it over with the PCM/IGN fuse removed for three 5 second spins and the oil pressure came up strong on the third spin. Hooked it back up and she started right up and found idle in about 15 seconds. No leaks (I was really worried with the Cometics) and she runs really strong.
The valvetrain is really quiet now – no more tapping and very little sewing machine sound – almost stock sounding!
The torque is really excellent with this new set up, it keeps spinning the tires even on mild acceleration from stops. Mileage is way up, and drivability is much improved.
I need to get it retuned now but if the way it runs now is any indication, I should be in good shape.
Futral was contacted about this as soon as I saw the cam and they offered only a replacement cam even though there is a known problem with this run of F13s. So no compensation for the lifters, oil pump, gasket sets, or labor even though in my view they are liable for the damage done by their defective part.
I know many of you that had this problem were satisfied that Futral offered to make good on the cam but I am not, and will not do business with Futral or Camotion again. It would have cost them very little to make a client happy but instead they chose the absolute minimum – their choice to make because I am not going to incur legal expenses for this small amount – but my choice too, I won’t do business with you if I am not valued as a customer.
This not to say Futral or Camotion have bad products, or that they necessarily have bad service, just that in this instance I think they did not treat me right and they no longer have me as a client.
Anyway, it really runs and sounds good now so I am really happy that I was able to locate the tapping, get it all done myself and have it turn out this well (800 miles on it so far and no problems), will get it tuned next week.
http://ImageEvent.com/daddyss/eginework
10-12-2006, 05:41 PM
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Congratulations, man! I was really hoping you figured this out. Sorry to hear about the shitty Futral response. I can't believe they didn't offer to help with anything but the replacement of the cam. I can't say I'll ever do business with them. Anyway- very glad to hear it runs solid, and be sure to let us know how it runs after the tune!!!
10-12-2006, 10:04 PM
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Sorry to hear...myself and SIX of my friends are, or should I say WERE Futral customers. I had a bad cam, and they didn't do me right. So bye-bye business from myself and my friends. They're gonna lose mega business unless they start to due customers right....ashame, they make good cams.
10-13-2006, 10:39 AM
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Nice writeup and glad you got it all fixed up.
Too bad about Futral, just like a lot of vendors they used this site to get popular and had so many guys swinging on their jock - and then turned their back on a lot of folks when they started to have problems.
Alan used to be on here all the time and seemed to be a smart and helpful guy. One bad batch of cams shouldn't ruin a company's reputation - but poor customer service sure will in a hurry...
Rob (Bad30th)
Too bad about Futral, just like a lot of vendors they used this site to get popular and had so many guys swinging on their jock - and then turned their back on a lot of folks when they started to have problems.
Alan used to be on here all the time and seemed to be a smart and helpful guy. One bad batch of cams shouldn't ruin a company's reputation - but poor customer service sure will in a hurry...
Rob (Bad30th)
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10-13-2006, 09:12 PM
#8
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Yes, happy with the results so far. Really too bad that we are not informed when defective parts go out the door, and then get poor support on top of it.
10-14-2006, 11:06 PM
#9
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I should be able to get it tuned next week and I'll post the results. I was at 406 hp and 375TQ with the F13 setup and I expect I should be in the 390 375 range now with the torque curve coming up much earlier.