BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

Alright so I need to make plans for next year.

I want to run E85, and have read Runn's thread in External Engine on "How To". It is my belief that this fuel can take an NA motor one step further than you could with gasoline.

I want to maximize my performance on E85, and need to run the best SCR, DCR, quench, etc, for optimal results. This means careful choice of heads, head gaskets, camshaft and valvetrain.

What I have on my mind currently is:
PRC 5.3L 220cc Stage 2.5 CNC Heads
FAST 90mm Intake / PTM 90mm TB
Bigger Injectors - this fuel needs about 30% bigger injectors than you would run with gasoline. What about the fuel pump, will it be ok?
Pacesetter Longtubes (already have)
Underdrive Pulley
Custom cam - 226/230 .600"/.600" 110+0 give or take. This was taken from Patrick G's "Torque Cam" thread ( https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/481382-torque-coming-out-my-ears-cam-change.html ) and sparked my interest in optimizing DCR and the powerband as a whole. I do not want a cam that only makes peak numbers on a dyno, that's not where I will be racing. The cam will probably put me around 6500rpm shifts give or take with lots of power at all RPM's and an especially beefy midrange, which is ideal for both driving and racing. My only question is about the lift, .600" is the approximate range but I see most cams with more on the intake than the exhaust so would I want to run slightly less exhaust lift?

This page is also very good at explaining DCR and how it is important.

With that said, I need help on a few things:
What kind of SCR and DCR do I want to aim for to optimize for this fuel? How high can you go? It is 100-105 octane. What CC chambers should I get on the cylinder head to reach those numbers? The above mentioned site suggests "The quench distance (piston/head clearance) should always be set between .035" and .045" with the lower limit giving the best performance and detonation resistance." With that said, what kind of gasket will I want?

And the valvetrain. Can you guys recommend parts? OEM LS1 or LS7 lifters, comp hardened pushrods, stock rocker arms? I want to go with lightweight valves and single Comp 918 springs, as they can handle this cam fine and I would rather not run unnecessary double springs and heavy valves. This will most likely be an XE-R lobed cam. LSK sounds great, but the lift would be very high and I would be concerned about longevity (even with strong double springs). This motor needs to be reliable. Unless of course someone can convince me that I should go LSK and run beefy dual springs. This option is still open.

Would I want a different spark plug? Currently running TR55's @ .050" gap. I was thinking for higher compression I would want a colder plug? TR6 maybe and what kind of gap?

Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions. I hope I haven't forgotten anything, and if I have someone will probably point it out. I hope to have a beast of a motor next year!

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

I know this is a complicated thread, but that's what we come here for. At least I do, this is LS1Tech after all. Help a brotha out!

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

To the top.

Runn

Your asking alot af questions that iŽd like to know aswell, But since there are soo few people who are experementing on this there isnŽt much info to find.

IŽm going to use AFR heads on my car with 58cc chambers.

People in Sweden that are playing with E85 run a CR way over 12:1

Look at the E96 cars in Brazil thay have 15:1 up to 16:1 but those cars are not flexifuelcars and are never driven on gas.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

This one has fallen by the wayside...

If E85 were to become the next big thing (and let's leave that out of this thread, engine talk only please) i'd like some help on the setup.

Not sure if I want to do this, or wait another year and finish the rest of the car first. Then when i'm ready and the aftermarket has evolved a little more, do a high compression LS2 402 + E85 + IR intake motor...

pHEnomIC

iTrader: (14)

I just got hptuners, there is a gas station nearby that has E85. I will give it a shot in the summer.

427

iTrader: (3)

What station did you see with E85? I am going to do some dyno testing and would like to buy some local.

Kurt

black_z

iTrader: (4)

It is kind of an apples to oranges comparison, but my buddies all motor B18 honda has a SCR of 13.9:1, it runs strictly on E85.

MagiC5

I'm thinking you are going to spend far more money than it's currently worth especially considering E85 prices to do such a conversion and rule out the benefits of the conversion... You'd be better off spending the money on something else. E85 is a great idea... but i think if the performance application on an N/A motor were mentionable you'd see it on new models... such as the C6. I however wouldn't be shocked if chevy makes the new Z06 (supercharged) a flexfuel.

If you are really serious about this i'll give you some ideas to consider...

Lets say you do find some untapped secrete in the LSx performance world w/ E85. Find a way to equip it on all years and models of F-bodies and other GM models that use said motors. Patient the design and start selling kits...

The next option is take your idea to a decent shop that has money to spend on these kinda ideas... Offer them your car as a test mule and let them go to work...

just my .02

slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

E85 is a very interesting option

MagiC5

absolutly E85 is an interesting idea and so is installing a rear mounted turbo... years ago such idea was a complete joke. still today some believe it is.. but STS has proven that it can push a car into single digits i believe... STS being my example was started by accident if you will.. kInda like this E85 idea could... If fact blackhawk might be on the edge of finding a ton of power just by changing some fuel lines and upping hte compression that will also yeild a longer lasting motor that is eco friendly and supports our local ecomony.

But i doubt it...

not trying to bring ya down but i'd hate for you to waste all that money only to blow up a motor and loose alot of money wasting your time to find a lil extra power that might not exist.

427

iTrader: (3)

E85 does not look to be better than gasoline in normal operation. The thing that looks cool is the high octane available at the pump. This could allow some interesting street players with boost.

Kurt

MagiC5

^^ exactly.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

I don't understand all the talk about NA vs boost here. It shouldn't matter what you are running, N/A motors may not be able to see as big of a benefit here as a boosted motor, but there are still gains to be had.

Since I made this post though I have changed directions. Larger displacement is in this car's future...

98ls1blackbird

iTrader: (5)

E-85 may not be a good idea on an older engine, due to the alcohol and its corrosive properties on o-rings, seals, etc. Also the piston rings do not have adequate sealing for E-85. Even the new engines that are flex fuel capable, the rings are iffy. My son is an engineer and works for the company that is developing the rings for the big three, among others. One of his projects is developing rings that are capable of proper sealing for flex fuel, and so far they do not have it. This is just my o2, and I dont want to open a hornets nest. Just be very careful and think everything out. Build the entire car to run on alcohol and you will have a lot less pain. Good luck to all of you.

MagiC5

The reason of the N/A vs Boost... is N/A motors dont' benefit from high octane fuel like a boosted motor does...

pHEnomIC

iTrader: (14)

Not necessarily true. If you have higher octane fuel, you can make a more aggressive tune and take advantage of it. For example, you can advance timing quite a bit making more power and not getting detonation.

And to find a station near you:

http://www.e85refueling.com/

Runn

Looking forward on trying it with boost...

Irocss85

iTrader: (1)

not sure in anyones let you know yet, but there is one right by your city on haggerty between 15 and 16mile road at the meijer gas station. and, atleast state-wide, all meijer's gas stations carry it. when I stopped in there is was about 12cents cheaper then low grade gas.

Jake the SSnake

iTrader: (11)

I have been wanting to do this also.I keep hearing different things need to be changed in the fuel system,nobody seems to have an actual answer on what needs to be replaced.Some people have changed there whole system and others have changed very little.I want it because there are 4 ethanol plants within 30 miles of my place (with more being built).And because the head/cam package I have is a little much for pump gas,thats the real benefit for na motors.I just want to be able to pull up to the station,fill my tank w/e85 and drive off with 12.0 + scr and not worry about it.