Toxic Texan

I work at a chemical plant and we have alot of xylenes that would work. <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Don't use it. It will coat your plugs and cause problems.

Toxic Texan

I don't use it. Just wondering.

Rich in NC

Tolulene... at about 10%. I can try and find the article, but lemme say, I've used it, it works, with NO side effect. The GN guys have used it for a long time...

The car I was using it on is a Audi 1.8L turbo @ 18psi, which has an OEM wideband o2 sensor. Works great!

If you absolutely MUST see the article, let me know, I'll try and find it. Do a search on Tolulene octane boost and you'll find some interesting reading... <img src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" />

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

xylene won't coat the plugs. It's already in gasoline.

I've used xylene and toluene up to 30% mix ratio with great sucess.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html

But i've gotten lazy and cheap, and just use 70%/30% 94/110 leaded. every tank <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

To hell w/ my O2 sensors <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

<img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" />
^---------LMAO that's awesome <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

2quick4u

I have used both xylene and toluene in concentrations of 33-50% before and never had any problems with coating plugs. Old race gas from the '70s used concentrations higher than 50% of xylene or toluene. These 'aromatics' are good octane boosters and are not carcenogenic like benzene is.

Toxic Texan

Does anyone have the calculation on how much xylene it takes to raise the octane to a set number? example: how much xylene does it take to get a gallon of 93 gasoline to 96 octane? What are the down sides?

2quick4u

[quote]Originally posted by Blank:
<strong>Does anyone have the calculation on how much xylene it takes to raise the octane to a set number? example: how much xylene does it take to get a gallon of 93 gasoline to 96 octane? What are the down sides?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Look here, this will tell you what you need to know. The formula you need is at the bottom of the article.

http://eric.virginia.com/install_university/installu_articles/kr_jackm/kr_jackm_8. 012000.htm

Downsides are this:
1) Toluene and Xylene are very strong solvents, so in high concetrations they can damage paint and some plastics.
2) Toluence and Xylene have high vapor temperatures, so it will move the distillation curve of the mixed fuel up. That means very strong concentrations may not run well in a cold engine at cold temperatures at low engine speeds and might be harder to start in the cold.

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: 2quick4u ]</p>

Dave

<img src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" border="0" alt="[bullshit]" /> xylene is 116 octane! I'll take as much as you can spare! Coated plugs indeed. <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Toxic Texan

So Dave what is your point?

2quick4u

[quote]Originally posted by Dave:
<strong> <img src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" border="0" alt="[bullshit]" /> xylene is 116 octane! I'll take as much as you can spare! Coated plugs indeed. <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Why the skepticism Dave?

From page 61 of 'High Performance Automotive Fuels and Fluids' by Jeff Hartman, Motorbooks International Publishers, 1996:

[code]
Compound RON MON
Xylene 118 115
Toluene 120 109
</pre><hr></blockquote>

That gives a PON, or pump octane number for 100% Xylene at 116.5 octane. 100% Toluene has a PON of 114.5.

ChrisB

Technically it depends on which isomer of xylene you get, but the distribution is pretty normal, and 115-120 R+M/2 is what you will almost always get.

Toluene doesn't have any isomers, so it's pretty consistent.

Neither should coat your plugs - what coats your plugs is normal octane boosters that have manganeese in various complexe's (MMT is the most common)- this is what gives you that red tint.

Chris

Dave

my point is that it's good stuff. Only problems may arise from impurities that may be present; I assume you're using technical grade xylene.
It's getting hard to come by here in California;

Tin Indian

Well, ya could always add a couple of gallons of Hydrazine in the tank!

Rocket fuel at its finest....

For God's sake, dont get it on your skin....

<img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

2quick4u

Yeah, just be sure to mix some Nitromethane in with that Hydrazine. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

Just kidding, Please don't try this at home! Runaway combustion/explosion will result.

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: 2quick4u ]</p>

Tin Indian

Hydrazine Propellants

"Hydrazine is a major fuel component for the Titan family of Expendable Launch Vehicles (ELV). When an oxidizer and hydrazine are mixed, spontaneous combustion occurs. Satellites and shuttles use Ultra Pure hydrazine monopropellant for guidance once in orbit."

Fill that gas tank with hydrazine and your NOS bottle with pure oxygen (O2), and hang on baby!

<img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</p>

2quick4u

[quote]Originally posted by Kimchee and Rice:
<strong>Hydrazine Propellants

"Hydrazine is a major fuel component for the Titan family of Expendable Launch Vehicles (ELV). When an oxidizer and hydrazine are mixed, spontaneous combustion occurs. Satellites and shuttles use Ultra Pure hydrazine monopropellant for guidance once in orbit."

Fill that gas tank with hydrazine and your NOS bottle with pure oxygen (O2), and hang on baby!

<img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

You don't need pure oxygen with hydrazine. Hydrazine's common oxidizers are other liquids such as Nitrogen TetrOxide (N2O4), Nitromethane (CH3NO2), and Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). The Titan uses AZ-50, a 50/50 mix of hydrazine and unsymmetrical di-methyl hydrazine (UDMH) as the fuel and Nitrogen Tetroxide (NTO) as the oxidizer. I used to test Titan IV second stage engines (LR-91).

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: 2quick4u ]</p>

Tin Indian

You ARE a wealth in info <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

BTW, the F-16 APU also uses Hydrazine as a fuel, although the Air Force is not real happy with it since Hydrazine is so toxic during handling.

Did'nt some old time racers back in the early 50s use it as a poor mans nitromethane? Of course I find it hard to believe that it was avail in the early 50s. Could have sworn I read that somewhere.

Ron,

2quick4u

I found an article about using Hydrazine for a racing fuel in an April 1961 'Hot Rod' Magazine in my collection. The article is titled 'The Lowdown on High-Powered Racing Fuels' by Dean Hill:

"Then looking over the field we can pick such possibilities for high energy fuels as hydrazine and its close relative aniline. Both are liquids, stable and quite expensive. The saving grace here is that both can be mixed with lower energy fuels such as gasoline, methanol, nitromethane, etc. to give large proportionate increases in fuel energy. Both are somewhat toxic and have quite an affinity for water."

The hypergolic fuels such as hydrazine began replacing Hydrogen Peroxide as mono-propellants for satellite station keeping thrusters in the '60s becuase it has a higher specific Impulse (Isp).

The Air Force could start using Hydrogen Peroxide as a mono-propellant in the APUs. However, high purity Peroxide has its own saftey issues such as runaway decomposition if it comes in contact with metallic ions or organic material.

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: 2quick4u ]</p>

ChrisB

I know you all are just having fun, but just to point out - hydrazine is in a totally different category with regard to danger/toxicity, etc. then toluene/xylene. While I wouldn't reccoment drinking, bathing, etc. in either of the latter, getting some on your hands, etc. isn't the end of the world. Yes they can be carcinogenic, but honestly most anything can be dangerous in extremes. You may have seen the fake MSDS floating around for the highly dangerous "di-hydrogen monoxide".

Not to downplay the importance of safety; just being realistic.

Nitromethane even isn't that bad (when compared to hydrazine, etc.) - though the problem is it's to polar to be readily miscible in gasoline. Sure, you can probably get some in there, but not very much, and not very uniform. If you throw another few carbons on the hydrocarbon tail though and end up with something like nitro-propane you can mix it pretty well with gas. It has the same benefits as nitromethane, though isn't quite as potent.

Since we are on the topic, another commonly used fuel additive is (was) propylene oxide (used in racing circles). This I WOULD rank as very dangerous - perhaps not as bad as hydrazing, but STAY AWAY nonetheless. It's nasty stuff. Furthermore the fumes are just about as nasty, which isn't nice for all the spectators, other racers, etc.

Chris