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Old 02-07-2007, 04:46 PM   #21
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The ASA isn't going to "eat" springs, don't know where that info came from. With a ramp rate of 56 and .525" gross lift, the '02+ ls6 springs will handle it with ease.
At minimum you'd need the cam, valvesprings, valvespring compressor, rods to hold the lifters up, timing chain (LS2 chain is cheap, works well) and the miscellaneous gaskets & fluids.....but then the "while I'm in here" line of thinking says there's no better time for a new ported oil pump...the crank pulley has to come off, why not put an underdrive pulley on? See where this is going?....
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123
This thread is about the ASA cam, not the Grand Am Cup cam...

ASA= 226/236 .525"/.525" 110 LSA
GAC= 239/251 .570"/.570" 106 LSA

Definitely two different cams.
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
The ASA isn't going to "eat" springs, don't know where that info came from. With a ramp rate of 56 and .525" gross lift, the '02+ ls6 springs will handle it with ease.
At minimum you'd need the cam, valvesprings, valvespring compressor, rods to hold the lifters up, timing chain (LS2 chain is cheap, works well) and the miscellaneous gaskets & fluids.....but then the "while I'm in here" line of thinking says there's no better time for a new ported oil pump...the crank pulley has to come off, why not put an underdrive pulley on? See where this is going?....
That bad info came from me, I saw ASA and thought Grand Am.
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:42 PM   #24
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*subscribes*
another thing, would this cam be ok with 3.42's and an M6 for now? or will it be pointless to install this cam without gears?
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Old 02-07-2007, 10:40 PM   #25
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Why is this cam disliked, or lack of better word not used as much. I mean hell if its making close to 350rwhp/tq in the 2-3krpms you wanna talk about one hell of a 60' time. Other cams may perform a little better in the higher rpms but I cant honestly seeing htis one lacking up there.

Its making me reconsider my cam desicions. And that sound clip is just badass!!!
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
The ASA isn't going to "eat" springs, don't know where that info came from. With a ramp rate of 56 and .525" gross lift, the '02+ ls6 springs will handle it with ease.
At minimum you'd need the cam, valvesprings, valvespring compressor, rods to hold the lifters up, timing chain (LS2 chain is cheap, works well) and the miscellaneous gaskets & fluids.....but then the "while I'm in here" line of thinking says there's no better time for a new ported oil pump...the crank pulley has to come off, why not put an underdrive pulley on? See where this is going?....
Yeah yeah...I see where you're going What I meant to ask was, what are the necessary things for the cam swap, not necessarily the tools needed for the job? For example, will I need new retainers? Or can I seriously just buy the cam, a set of 02+ LS6 springs and be done (or if I wish, hardened pushrods at stock length as well)? Oh, and the necessary gaskets and fluids of course. Also, why would I need a new timing chain? But I think I'm on page with you when it comes to the underdrive pulley...

Now I'm trying to keep the thread aimed towards everyone that would be interested in this cam, but I'm going to ask a few things that would pertain only to me. My car only has ~19.5K miles on it and is a '99 (car has factory oil pump). Would I be in need of a new oil pump for this cam swap? The one I've got definitely pushes out a fair bit of PSI (judging by the factory gauge in the gauge cluster). At full throttle, I'm at around 70 PSI or so and at idle a little over 40 PSI (all with the right amount of oil of course). So it seems that my oil pump is sufficient, but then again I have never owned a cammed car and don't fully understand what will happen to the PSI once the cam is in.
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:19 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by bww3588
*subscribes*
another thing, would this cam be ok with 3.42's and an M6 for now? or will it be pointless to install this cam without gears?
Well from my understanding, it makes a fair amount of torque at low RPMs and is a nice flat curve. So you may not need them. I put 4.11 gears in my car with intentions of putting a big nasty cam in there, but with this ASA cam's power, I'm not sure if I even need the gears anymore. Then again, I love my 4.11's now...they aren't coming out!
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:27 AM   #28
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ok so i need to know the operating ranges of this cam... im looking to use this as more of a road racing cam... on 2.2 mile courses with max speeds reaching 120mph.. average speeds of 60-70.. with staying in mostly 3rd & 4th gear.. occassional 2nd with tight turns..

my rear gear is 4.11
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebadrubi
Why is this cam disliked, or lack of better word not used as much. I mean hell if its making close to 350rwhp/tq in the 2-3krpms you wanna talk about one hell of a 60' time. Other cams may perform a little better in the higher rpms but I cant honestly seeing htis one lacking up there.

Its making me reconsider my cam desicions. And that sound clip is just badass!!!
The cam is disliked for its lack of high horsepower numbers put down on the dyno. With that being said, this cam can and has put down near 400 rwhp cam only. I mean the majority of the people on this site that want a cam, are only looking at peak numbers and not looking at how the cam performs down low. I am wanting this cam for my daily driver and will be in need of some down low power because I am rarely going to be spinning the motor high enough to even get to those peak numbers of the other cams. And I'll be honest, I'm also wanting to get a cam that thumps pretty damn hard. So I figured if I want a cam that can thump hard, I might as well get one that has plenty of usable power. I will try to find the dyno sheet that shows what I'm talking about...
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GR33N GoblinM6
ok so i need to know the operating ranges of this cam... im looking to use this as more of a road racing cam... on 2.2 mile courses with max speeds reaching 120mph.. average speeds of 60-70.. with staying in mostly 3rd & 4th gear.. occassional 2nd with tight turns..

my rear gear is 4.11
Damn, that sounds like fun! I've always wanted to do road racing...Too poor
But anyway, straight from where the cam is sold (HERE) it says that the operating range of this cam is between 2500 - 6500. So if you are reaching 120, you're going to be shifting into 5th occasionally to reach those speeds with 4.11's (not sure if that's a bad thing or what...don't know too much about road racing). Hope that helps.
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123
Well from my understanding, it makes a fair amount of torque at low RPMs and is a nice flat curve. So you may not need them. I put 4.11 gears in my car with intentions of putting a big nasty cam in there, but with this ASA cam's power, I'm not sure if I even need the gears anymore. Then again, I love my 4.11's now...they aren't coming out!
the only reason i was asking about rear gears, is because i dont want to put gears in my 10 bolt. from what i have heard is that is when they are most succecceputable to breakage. when i can afford it im going with a 12 bolt with 4.10's in it.
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:46 AM   #32
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the only reason i was asking about rear gears, is because i dont want to put gears in my 10 bolt. from what i have heard is that is when they are most succecceputable to breakage. when i can afford it im going with a 12 bolt with 4.10's in it.
Well for what it's worth, I have the 4.11's in my 10 bolt and couldn't be happier. But then again, I have never launched my car and it has only seen street tires...
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:55 AM   #33
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Here, I found the dyno sheet I was looking for.

Click the image to open in full size.

I took that dyno sheet from this thread:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...&highlight=asa

This thread shows a dyno sheet and all with the ASA cam. He made a comfortable 392 rwhp and 373 rwtq with these mods (taken from his signature):

'02 Trans AM WS6, M6, black/black
-Engine: GMPP ASA cam (226/236 .525 110lsa), Powerbond pulley
-Intake: Volant, !MAF screen, TB bypass, Baker smooth bellow, Bo White TB
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-Misc: SLP shifter w/ Lou's short stick, Autometer cobalt gauges and shift light, NGK's, MSD wires, !CAGS !AIR !hood baffles
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:56 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123
Damn, that sounds like fun! I've always wanted to do road racing...Too poor
But anyway, straight from where the cam is sold (HERE) it says that the operating range of this cam is between 2500 - 6500. So if you are reaching 120, you're going to be shifting into 5th occasionally to reach those speeds with 4.11's (not sure if that's a bad thing or what...don't know too much about road racing). Hope that helps.
well thats awesome then..

another quick question.. what about going to Harland Sharp 1.8 rockers.. would i benifit at all from it? what would this do, if anything?
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123
...will I need new retainers? Or can I seriously just buy the cam, a set of 02+ LS6 springs and be done (or if I wish, hardened pushrods at stock length as well)? Oh, and the necessary gaskets and fluids of course. Also, why would I need a new timing chain?
You can re-use the stock retainers and valve locks, although I'd recommend picking up a few extra locks for when you drop/lose a few, those little bastards have a tendency to shoot across the garage. Timing chains stretch over time, if you're going to remove it anyway you should replace it with a new one. The LS2 chain is a direct replacement and is less than $45. With such low mileage on your car, your oil pump is probably fine.....'98s should replace theirs, as they have been known to fail without warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bww3588
*subscribes*
another thing, would this cam be ok with 3.42's and an M6 for now? or will it be pointless to install this cam without gears?
IMO, manual cars should have come with at least a 3.73 if not 4.10 from the factory. You absolutely wouldn't HAVE to change gears, but if you ever ride in a car with 4.10's you'll want them immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebadrubi
Why is this cam disliked, or lack of better word not used as much?
Like spazzy said, it's not going to put up crazy peak hp numbers, and the majority of people around here only look at peak hp numbers when choosing a cam. It doesn't have crazy aggressive lobes with high ramp rates and peak lift, so people tend to overlook it because "it's old technology". Before the massive leaps in tuning software abilities in the last couple years, tuning this cam wasn't easy and took lots of time but that's not the case anymore with the advances HPTuners and EFILive have made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GR33N GoblinM6
ok so i need to know the operating ranges of this cam... im looking to use this as more of a road racing cam... on 2.2 mile courses with max speeds reaching 120mph.. average speeds of 60-70.. with staying in mostly 3rd & 4th gear.. occassional 2nd with tight turns..
Operating range listed by GM is 2500-6500rpm. It was originally designed for ASA sanctioned road racing, so it would work well for you.

Did I miss anybody?
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
IMO, manual cars should have come with at least a 3.73 if not 4.10 from the factory. You absolutely wouldn't HAVE to change gears, but if you ever ride in a car with 4.10's you'll want them immediately.
the only thing that is holding me back from getting 4.10's is the fact that i am trying to prolong the life of my 10 bolt. now *IF* i get my beater, then i would be more apt to changing them because if my rear breaks then i have wheels untill i can afford a 12 bolt. my problem now is i dont have wheels if my rear breaks and i would be up a **** creek without a motor.
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:08 PM   #37
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what rpm did you peak at and what rpm do yo shift at jmm?
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:20 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by GR33N GoblinM6
well thats awesome then..

another quick question.. what about going to Harland Sharp 1.8 rockers.. would i benifit at all from it? what would this do, if anything?
I don't know nearly enough about rockers to answer your question. But after reading this thread (HERE), one guy recommended throwing some 1.89 rockers in the car for road racing with this cam.
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
You can re-use the stock retainers and valve locks, although I'd recommend picking up a few extra locks for when you drop/lose a few, those little bastards have a tendency to shoot across the garage. Timing chains stretch over time, if you're going to remove it anyway you should replace it with a new one. The LS2 chain is a direct replacement and is less than $45. With such low mileage on your car, your oil pump is probably fine.....'98s should replace theirs, as they have been known to fail without warning.
Thanks for the heads up! I'm not sure if I'm going to do the swap myself yet or not. I really want to, but the back surgery I had not too long ago is kind of preventing me from doing it. Actually, I need to go back to the hospital today in a few hours to make sure I don't need another surgery. But regardless, either I'll grab some more for myself or the guy that will be doing it for me. I also wasn't aware that the timing chain only costs that. I must ask why the LS2 chain instead of just a LS1 replacement, though?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
IMO, manual cars should have come with at least a 3.73 if not 4.10 from the factory. You absolutely wouldn't HAVE to change gears, but if you ever ride in a car with 4.10's you'll want them immediately.
Agreed!! These 4.11's are absolutely perfect for the t-56!
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennytime
what rpm did you peak at and what rpm do yo shift at jmm?
Haven't had mine on the dyno, don't know the peak but should be similar to the graph posted. With the rpm-hating 4l60e, I keep my shift points at 6400rpm. Hopefully this spring I'll be swapping to a t56 and start shifting at 6500-6600.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123
I must ask why the LS2 chain instead of just a LS1 replacement, though?
The LS2 chain replaced the GM part number for the LS1 chain......direct replacement.
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