Ok...my 402 build--402 owners INSIDE
03-03-2007, 11:16 PM
#1
Ok...my 402 build--402 owners INSIDE Ok, I ordered my shortblock from SDPC, cam from SDPC, and will be purchasing a set of Patriot Performance Stage 3 6.0l heads. Here are the specs on my build, please help me add/subtract from this list...
LS2 402 shortblock w/ durabond cam bearings, clevite main bearings, eagle crank, scat connecting rods, clevite rod bearings, manley -14cc dished forged pistons, total seal piston rings, timing set w/ chain dampner, new front and valley cover, new LS7 lifters w/ new lifter guides, 7.400 manley pushrods, ported LS6 oil pump, full gasket kit (including .040 Cometic head gasket) and a Katech sensor harness.
The cam is a crane cam grind, It is 250/258 with .61x/.62x lift and a 108 LSA. I originally had a lower lift cam, but per advice on this forum I upped the lift.
The heads are going to be Patriot Performance Stage 3 6.0l heads w/ 2.08/1.60 valves, dual valvesprings to .650 lift and 59cc chambers (unless a rare steal pops up on this forum). Any idea what my SCR, DCR and overall compression will be with this setup? Is it optimal for a daily driven car on 91 octane with a dead on Ed Wright tune? I think that I could handle a 11.5:1 to 11.7:1 compression. What do you think? Is that too high? To low? If so, what would you suggest milling the heads to with the cam specified up top?
Bryan at SDPC told me that I should be fine on my stock injectors for now. They are OEM replacements and have less than 5000 miles on them. However, if you all feel I'll need them in the future I would just assume upgrade now and avoid the headache of swapping them later.
What is a decent size injector for this NA setup? SVO 30#s? 42#s?
Will I need to get a new fuel pump as well? Which is the best buy out there? I'm trying to stay on a budget and don't need to go overboard.
What about aftermarket fuel rails? I was looking at some on Speed Inc and they looked pretty reasonable.
As far as intake goes, I'm going to keep the LS6 for now but am planning on the LS2 90mm w/ matching TB or going with the FAST 90/90 when cash permits it.
Now, as for the specifics of the swap. I am having a shop do it. They haven't ever done one before but are confident with the right information they can knock it out in 2-3 days tops. I'm sure that it will be obvious to them which parts they need to reuse from my current LS1 to get the LS2 running. However, are their any other "weird" issues they need to know about prior to the swap? Wiring? Sensors and sensor location? Custom brackets/mounts?
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that there was an oil hole that needed to be plugged on the LS2 block, is this true? Everything else just dropping her in and starting her up? If not, what am I missing? I really don't want them to have to take an extra 10 hours on the swap and eat in to my tune.
Speaking of tune, how soon after the swap do I need to get it tuned? Do I wait until after the break in time or do I do an initial tune then take it in for a full dynotune after the break in time?
Sorry for all the questions guys, but I'm completely new to this and am going to be without a car until this swap gets done. I'm just hoping I can get the info to make the swap go as smooth and quick as possible. Thanks!
Mitchell
LS2 402 shortblock w/ durabond cam bearings, clevite main bearings, eagle crank, scat connecting rods, clevite rod bearings, manley -14cc dished forged pistons, total seal piston rings, timing set w/ chain dampner, new front and valley cover, new LS7 lifters w/ new lifter guides, 7.400 manley pushrods, ported LS6 oil pump, full gasket kit (including .040 Cometic head gasket) and a Katech sensor harness.
The cam is a crane cam grind, It is 250/258 with .61x/.62x lift and a 108 LSA. I originally had a lower lift cam, but per advice on this forum I upped the lift.
The heads are going to be Patriot Performance Stage 3 6.0l heads w/ 2.08/1.60 valves, dual valvesprings to .650 lift and 59cc chambers (unless a rare steal pops up on this forum). Any idea what my SCR, DCR and overall compression will be with this setup? Is it optimal for a daily driven car on 91 octane with a dead on Ed Wright tune? I think that I could handle a 11.5:1 to 11.7:1 compression. What do you think? Is that too high? To low? If so, what would you suggest milling the heads to with the cam specified up top?
Bryan at SDPC told me that I should be fine on my stock injectors for now. They are OEM replacements and have less than 5000 miles on them. However, if you all feel I'll need them in the future I would just assume upgrade now and avoid the headache of swapping them later.
What is a decent size injector for this NA setup? SVO 30#s? 42#s?
Will I need to get a new fuel pump as well? Which is the best buy out there? I'm trying to stay on a budget and don't need to go overboard.
What about aftermarket fuel rails? I was looking at some on Speed Inc and they looked pretty reasonable.
As far as intake goes, I'm going to keep the LS6 for now but am planning on the LS2 90mm w/ matching TB or going with the FAST 90/90 when cash permits it.
Now, as for the specifics of the swap. I am having a shop do it. They haven't ever done one before but are confident with the right information they can knock it out in 2-3 days tops. I'm sure that it will be obvious to them which parts they need to reuse from my current LS1 to get the LS2 running. However, are their any other "weird" issues they need to know about prior to the swap? Wiring? Sensors and sensor location? Custom brackets/mounts?
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that there was an oil hole that needed to be plugged on the LS2 block, is this true? Everything else just dropping her in and starting her up? If not, what am I missing? I really don't want them to have to take an extra 10 hours on the swap and eat in to my tune.
Speaking of tune, how soon after the swap do I need to get it tuned? Do I wait until after the break in time or do I do an initial tune then take it in for a full dynotune after the break in time?
Sorry for all the questions guys, but I'm completely new to this and am going to be without a car until this swap gets done. I'm just hoping I can get the info to make the swap go as smooth and quick as possible. Thanks!
Mitchell
03-03-2007, 11:21 PM
#2
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u went from wanting a big cam...to wanting a big cam with spray...to wanting a turbo and now big cubes...what are u gonna want to build next?
as far as the questions...well i didn't read your post because i just laughed when i read the first paragraph
as far as the questions...well i didn't read your post because i just laughed when i read the first paragraph
03-04-2007, 10:25 AM
#4
Not a 402 owner yet as I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of my 402, but I will say a few things I know....
You will need new injectors as the 26lb'ers wil be more than maxed...I would try and find a set of 42's ASAP.
The manifold/tb will hold you back on power as they will be a major restriction for thw increased cubes...
I would also look into an aftermarket fuel pump as the stock unit "may" have trouble keeping up with the demand N/A and definitley on spray...
Good luck!
You will need new injectors as the 26lb'ers wil be more than maxed...I would try and find a set of 42's ASAP.
The manifold/tb will hold you back on power as they will be a major restriction for thw increased cubes...
I would also look into an aftermarket fuel pump as the stock unit "may" have trouble keeping up with the demand N/A and definitley on spray...
Good luck!
03-04-2007, 06:40 PM
#5
SVThis, thanks for the post. You were correct, I did originally want a big cam. So, what did I do? I did the smart thing and built the suspension and rearend around that decision. After spending that money, I decided I wanted to make real power that a cam only setup couldn't offer so I explored the option of boosting a built 346. After looking at the costs, I bought the 402 to build NA. Isn't this forum for asking questions about these vehicles so you can gain knowledge and build a great car? Or is it for acting like a petty high schooler and trashing people's builds because the only mod you have done (at least from your sig pic) is that awesome whitetrash "pull off that black front plastic grille thingy but don't bother to buy a new grille or at the very least fill in the freaking holes" mod.
Grow up man. Build your car (or at least buy a $90 billet grille). Learn from the forum. If you car is slow and looks like ****, fix it. Don't make yourself feel better by insulting other people's builds
Wavrdr, thanks for the info.
Anybody else who has any info relating to the post feel free to give your input, it is much appreciated. Thanks
Grow up man. Build your car (or at least buy a $90 billet grille). Learn from the forum. If you car is slow and looks like ****, fix it. Don't make yourself feel better by insulting other people's builds
Wavrdr, thanks for the info.
Anybody else who has any info relating to the post feel free to give your input, it is much appreciated. Thanks
Last edited by SVT THIS; 03-04-2007 at 06:49 PM.
03-04-2007, 09:51 PM
#7
Originally Posted by SVT THIS
SVThis, thanks for the post. You were correct, I did originally want a big cam. So, what did I do? I did the smart thing and built the suspension and rearend around that decision. After spending that money, I decided I wanted to make real power that a cam only setup couldn't offer so I explored the option of boosting a built 346. After looking at the costs, I bought the 402 to build NA. Isn't this forum for asking questions about these vehicles so you can gain knowledge and build a great car? Or is it for acting like a petty high schooler and trashing people's builds because the only mod you have done (at least from your sig pic) is that awesome whitetrash "pull off that black front plastic grille thingy but don't bother to buy a new grille or at the very least fill in the freaking holes" mod.
Grow up man. Build your car (or at least buy a $90 billet grille). Learn from the forum. If you car is slow and looks like ****, fix it. Don't make yourself feel better by insulting other people's builds
Wavrdr, thanks for the info.
Anybody else who has any info relating to the post feel free to give your input, it is much appreciated. Thanks
Grow up man. Build your car (or at least buy a $90 billet grille). Learn from the forum. If you car is slow and looks like ****, fix it. Don't make yourself feel better by insulting other people's builds
Wavrdr, thanks for the info.
Anybody else who has any info relating to the post feel free to give your input, it is much appreciated. Thanks
on topic u r going to need injectors if the thing crests 400rwhp which it should all day long. and try and find ur dcr-scr doesnt mean as much when it comes down to the octane u r using.
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03-04-2007, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ls2 bait
how about u take ur own advice. ur telling him to grow up and u r on here verbaly bashing this guys car like urs is any better.
on topic u r going to need injectors if the thing crests 400rwhp which it should all day long. and try and find ur dcr-scr doesnt mean as much when it comes down to the octane u r using.
on topic u r going to need injectors if the thing crests 400rwhp which it should all day long. and try and find ur dcr-scr doesnt mean as much when it comes down to the octane u r using.
no harm done...he Pm'd me with his prob (which he should have done befor he posted those comments) and i Pm'd him back letting him know i didn't mean my post the way it may seem....i just meant i laughed because of how many diff directions he has went with his build...wasn't bashing at all
BTW, my car is a H/C car that has put up some strong numbers....
03-04-2007, 10:18 PM
#9
Well I just got some Lucas 36# injectors for about $200. Should I pair these with Speed Incs aftermarket fuel rails and a Walbro 255 pump? Or are the stocker rails and pump okay?
Is 12:1 compression ratio ridiculous for daily driving? The car will be tuned magically by Ed Wright in Tulsa. If 12:1 is impossible (with 91 octane and good tune), I think that 11.5:1 or maybe even 11.7:1. Where does the DCR play into this overall compression? How do I figure what it will be and where will I need it to be?
Anybody out there with the actual swap related questions please jump in here.
*Lets try to keep this thread civil and resourceful. I know I'm an idiot, just tell me through PM so this stays opejn.
Is 12:1 compression ratio ridiculous for daily driving? The car will be tuned magically by Ed Wright in Tulsa. If 12:1 is impossible (with 91 octane and good tune), I think that 11.5:1 or maybe even 11.7:1. Where does the DCR play into this overall compression? How do I figure what it will be and where will I need it to be?
Anybody out there with the actual swap related questions please jump in here.
*Lets try to keep this thread civil and resourceful. I know I'm an idiot, just tell me through PM so this stays opejn.
03-04-2007, 10:22 PM
#10
You dont even know how bad that LS6 intake will be holding you back. One of my best friends gained 35rwhp on the dyno. Back to back runs with a LS6 vs a FAST 90 with LS2 TB. This was a 402 with ported ls1 heads and a 248/254 cam...
Get the FAST or a hogged out LS2 intake.. ASAP. And you NEED injectors. Get some 42's NOW. You will require a tune BADLY.
Get the FAST or a hogged out LS2 intake.. ASAP. And you NEED injectors. Get some 42's NOW. You will require a tune BADLY.
03-04-2007, 10:32 PM
#11
Originally Posted by SVT THIS
Well I just got some Lucas 36# injectors for about $200. Should I pair these with Speed Incs aftermarket fuel rails and a Walbro 255 pump? Or are the stocker rails and pump okay?
Is 12:1 compression ratio ridiculous for daily driving? The car will be tuned magically by Ed Wright in Tulsa. If 12:1 is impossible (with 91 octane and good tune), I think that 11.5:1 or maybe even 11.7:1. Where does the DCR play into this overall compression? How do I figure what it will be and where will I need it to be?
Anybody out there with the actual swap related questions please jump in here.
*Lets try to keep this thread civil and resourceful. I know I'm an idiot, just tell me through PM so this stays opejn.
Is 12:1 compression ratio ridiculous for daily driving? The car will be tuned magically by Ed Wright in Tulsa. If 12:1 is impossible (with 91 octane and good tune), I think that 11.5:1 or maybe even 11.7:1. Where does the DCR play into this overall compression? How do I figure what it will be and where will I need it to be?
Anybody out there with the actual swap related questions please jump in here.
*Lets try to keep this thread civil and resourceful. I know I'm an idiot, just tell me through PM so this stays opejn.
03-04-2007, 10:43 PM
#12
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There's a lot of little things to do for a complete swap.
* You will need a tune asap. Otherwise raw fuel will just dump into the engine washing out the cylinders.
* You definitely need a new fuel pump. I would go with the Racetronix kit.
* The stock fuel rails will be fine.
* You will need LS2 lifter trays because the LS1 tray will not fit.
* You need to shim the windage tray for clearance.
* You need to swap the cam sensor wires. I recommend buying the Katech harness from SPDC for a true plug n play.
* You will need to relocate the knock sensors to the side of the block. The extensions should come with the same Cam Sensor harness as above.
* SPDC should include the LS2 front timing cover w/cam sensor, LS2 valley cover, and LS2 timing chain set.
* You can reuse your rear cover and oil pan, but need new gaskets.
*Note: Oil pan and rear cover alignment is critical, you will need the specific tools or someone with experience to set it up.
* You can reuse all of the other sensors no problem.
* All of the accessories are a direct bolt in.
The oil hole you are referring to is the oil galley plugs in the block. They should come installed, but make they are actually installed before bolting the covers on.
FWIW - I bought my LS2 402 shortblock from them 2 years ago (#6 built) and it runs perfect with no problems. Oil pressure is great and doesn't burn oil. Take your time and do it right the first time.
* You will need a tune asap. Otherwise raw fuel will just dump into the engine washing out the cylinders.
* You definitely need a new fuel pump. I would go with the Racetronix kit.
* The stock fuel rails will be fine.
* You will need LS2 lifter trays because the LS1 tray will not fit.
* You need to shim the windage tray for clearance.
* You need to swap the cam sensor wires. I recommend buying the Katech harness from SPDC for a true plug n play.
* You will need to relocate the knock sensors to the side of the block. The extensions should come with the same Cam Sensor harness as above.
* SPDC should include the LS2 front timing cover w/cam sensor, LS2 valley cover, and LS2 timing chain set.
* You can reuse your rear cover and oil pan, but need new gaskets.
*Note: Oil pan and rear cover alignment is critical, you will need the specific tools or someone with experience to set it up.
* You can reuse all of the other sensors no problem.
* All of the accessories are a direct bolt in.
The oil hole you are referring to is the oil galley plugs in the block. They should come installed, but make they are actually installed before bolting the covers on.
FWIW - I bought my LS2 402 shortblock from them 2 years ago (#6 built) and it runs perfect with no problems. Oil pressure is great and doesn't burn oil. Take your time and do it right the first time.
Last edited by DrkPhx; 03-04-2007 at 10:48 PM.
03-04-2007, 11:28 PM
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-14 dish pistons eh...
Have a set of those in my 402, with a small cam, stock dart heads, 1.75 headers made 451/455 (10.3 SCR), that wasn't enoug
hope you plan on putting turbos on it? I said screw playing behind the 8 ball trying to raise cylinder pressure and decided to install a pair of GT3076's
IMO i'd go with a smaller cam, calculated your compression to be 10.6SCR 7.6DCR
something like our SI7 cam, 238/244 .605/.612 110LSA +0 atleast get you around 8.0DCR, not insinuating DCR is only key factor in cam selection but I would stay around 110ICL.
Have a set of those in my 402, with a small cam, stock dart heads, 1.75 headers made 451/455 (10.3 SCR), that wasn't enoug
hope you plan on putting turbos on it? I said screw playing behind the 8 ball trying to raise cylinder pressure and decided to install a pair of GT3076's
IMO i'd go with a smaller cam, calculated your compression to be 10.6SCR 7.6DCR
something like our SI7 cam, 238/244 .605/.612 110LSA +0 atleast get you around 8.0DCR, not insinuating DCR is only key factor in cam selection but I would stay around 110ICL.
03-05-2007, 12:45 AM
#15
Thanks for the info DrkPhnx and LS2Bait!
I wish installing turbos was as easy as saying screw playing behind the 8 ball trying to raise cylinder pressure and just install a pair of turbos.
Will 36# injectors not be enough for this setup? It will ne NA, not even N2O will be used. Still gotta go with 42#s?
So, let's try and get 12:1 compression and 8.5 DCR with -14cc dished pistons, 250/258 with .61x/.62x lift and a 108 LSA cam, and Patriot Stage 3 6.0l heads w/ 2.08/1.6 valves. I already bought a .040 cometic gasket, so I guess milling the heads is about the only way to get the compression in check? What about tossing that cam? I believe it will perform well for what I want...if I can get good compression!
I wish installing turbos was as easy as saying screw playing behind the 8 ball trying to raise cylinder pressure and just install a pair of turbos.
Will 36# injectors not be enough for this setup? It will ne NA, not even N2O will be used. Still gotta go with 42#s?
So, let's try and get 12:1 compression and 8.5 DCR with -14cc dished pistons, 250/258 with .61x/.62x lift and a 108 LSA cam, and Patriot Stage 3 6.0l heads w/ 2.08/1.6 valves. I already bought a .040 cometic gasket, so I guess milling the heads is about the only way to get the compression in check? What about tossing that cam? I believe it will perform well for what I want...if I can get good compression!
03-05-2007, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT THIS
So, let's try and get 12:1 compression and 8.5 DCR with -14cc dished pistons, 250/258 with .61x/.62x lift and a 108 LSA cam, and Patriot Stage 3 6.0l heads w/ 2.08/1.6 valves. I already bought a .040 cometic gasket, so I guess milling the heads is about the only way to get the compression in check? What about tossing that cam? I believe it will perform well for what I want...if I can get good compression!
Don't go crazy with the milling, do least milling possible. The heads loose flow for one thing, you mill to a certain point and the intake may not fit.
Patriot 59cc heads and .040 gaskets should give you a decent 11.1 compression.
Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
If you want to have better compression, return those pistons. Try -2cc forged pistons instead.
