MS4 w/LS1 Stage I heads or MS3 w/5.3 2.5 heads?
04-23-2007, 01:25 PM
#1
MS4 w/LS1 Stage I heads or MS3 w/5.3 2.5 heads? Like the title asks. I would love to do the MS4 with the 5.3's but I'm not sure about flycutting. A couple of friends of mine are doing the install and I dont beleive they know how to do it or even have the tool to do it with. So which will net me more power? I have been dead set on an MS4, and that is my first choice. This is not a daily driver, mostly weekends and some track time. Also will a TSP mail order tune get me by for a while until I can get it dynotuned?
04-23-2007, 01:40 PM
#2
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I hear of people running this cam without flycutting, they claim the car runs fine. My question is what is the clearance? you want to keep the intake valve at the min. .080", and the exhaust valve .100". The only really way to know is measure for yourself. Not only will you know what you need to do next, but you will have piece of mind knowing that you did a good job.
04-23-2007, 01:58 PM
#3
Originally Posted by onebadZ28
I hear of people running this cam without flycutting, they claim the car runs fine. My question is what is the clearance? you want to keep the intake valve at the min. .080", and the exhaust valve .100". The only really way to know is measure for yourself. Not only will you know what you need to do next, but you will have piece of mind knowing that you did a good job.
04-23-2007, 02:26 PM
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I have the MS3 and the 2.5 heads, made the numbers in my sig...stock gaskets, no milling, NO FLYCUTTING!!
You absolutely have to flycut with the MS4 and these 5.3 heads....I do not think you have to flycut though with the MS4 and LS6 heads....do not quote me on that however...
I will tell you...the MS3 is hard to tune...you will need ALOT more than a mail order, and some tall gears man...TRUST ME...I am actually swapping the cam out for a smaller cam that will make less top end but more TORQUE...something I can actually use below 7000 RPM.
Good luck
*edit* - not sure why, but the MS4 supposedly makes more down low power...maybe because of the improved lift? All I can say is it is still a LARGE cam...
These cams make great power though..hell I snapped off my ten bolt yesterday like it wasn't ****...
You absolutely have to flycut with the MS4 and these 5.3 heads....I do not think you have to flycut though with the MS4 and LS6 heads....do not quote me on that however...
I will tell you...the MS3 is hard to tune...you will need ALOT more than a mail order, and some tall gears man...TRUST ME...I am actually swapping the cam out for a smaller cam that will make less top end but more TORQUE...something I can actually use below 7000 RPM.
Good luck
*edit* - not sure why, but the MS4 supposedly makes more down low power...maybe because of the improved lift? All I can say is it is still a LARGE cam...
These cams make great power though..hell I snapped off my ten bolt yesterday like it wasn't ****...
04-23-2007, 02:28 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by blk00ss
I beleive that TSP has done plenty of homework on this cam, and would not lie just to make a sale. So in that case all I'm trying to figure out is which package will make more power?
04-23-2007, 06:44 PM
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Ive heard of people using the MS3 and the 5.3L heads and making about 460 rwhp give or take a couple and Ive heard people making like 440-460 with the MS4 and the LS6 heads. TSP just got done with my car this last week and I have the MS4, 5.3L heads milled, LS7 lifters and push rods and the stock LS6 intake with catback exhaust and I put down 477 rwhp and 427 rwtq. Of course the reason I had them do it was because of the flycutting but i think that is was worth it. You sound like me mine is just a weekend toy and I love the power its just hard to drive with stock gears through a parking lot. If I was you I would call TSP and talk to them and tell the what your looking for. They know there products and what they are cappable of. Thats just my 2 cents. If you want to see my dyno graph of what the MS4 is cappable of just look under my post in my name Jason posted it for me. Good luck though they are both good combos.
04-23-2007, 07:11 PM
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If you do not want to flycut, do not go with either one. You will have to run thicker head gaskets to get the valve clearance you need which will give you less compression and thus a lower DCR which will takes it toll on power. Try running a cam that will allow you to run the .040 head gaskets and still give adequate p/v clearance.
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04-23-2007, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by OneMean01
Ive heard of people using the MS3 and the 5.3L heads and making about 460 rwhp give or take a couple and Ive heard people making like 440-460 with the MS4 and the LS6 heads. TSP just got done with my car this last week and I have the MS4, 5.3L heads milled, LS7 lifters and push rods and the stock LS6 intake with catback exhaust and I put down 477 rwhp and 427 rwtq. Of course the reason I had them do it was because of the flycutting but i think that is was worth it. You sound like me mine is just a weekend toy and I love the power its just hard to drive with stock gears through a parking lot. If I was you I would call TSP and talk to them and tell the what your looking for. They know there products and what they are cappable of. Thats just my 2 cents. If you want to see my dyno graph of what the MS4 is cappable of just look under my post in my name Jason posted it for me. Good luck though they are both good combos.
04-23-2007, 08:17 PM
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Origionally Posted by erikthegoalie
why in gods name is my TRQ so Fakin low?!?!?!?? HELP what am i doing wrong here?!?
why in gods name is my TRQ so Fakin low?!?!?!?? HELP what am i doing wrong here?!?
04-23-2007, 08:20 PM
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2002 ss....all bolt ons including EWP....TD's, !CATS, pacesetters, x pipe, CME.....FAST 90/NW90, K&N FIPK, PRC 5.3 stage 2.5 heads, stock gaskets, MS3 on a 113 (237/242)
um....**** just about everything you can do...I just can't believe I did not break 400 RWTQ....it is so dissapointing that I am contemplating swapping to a smaller cam so I can have some USEABLE power....
dont mean to Hijack...I just noticed that you were making a **** load of TRQ and power with the MS4 and these heads....DAMMIT!
um....**** just about everything you can do...I just can't believe I did not break 400 RWTQ....it is so dissapointing that I am contemplating swapping to a smaller cam so I can have some USEABLE power....
dont mean to Hijack...I just noticed that you were making a **** load of TRQ and power with the MS4 and these heads....DAMMIT!
04-23-2007, 08:38 PM
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Sorry not trying to hijack either but one of the guys at TSP has all the same thing you do and i think he is putting out 15 rwhp more than you not sure about the tq though. Have you checked your compresion and maybe it has to do with your tune could be all sorts of things. If you want a different cam maybe go to the MS4 you should get higher numbers than me very very close to 500 rwhp with the 90/90. Power kinda also is useless unless you can put it to the ground also! But with the two combos that blk00ss is mentioning he is thinking about, you dont have to flycut unless you use the 5.3 with the MS4 Just to let out a little more info.
04-23-2007, 09:37 PM
#17
erikthegoalie i think cats is taking a few HP and TQ AND you ls6 heads is 63cc
the 5.3 heads TSP sells is 62cc (not sure) so more compression is always good for TQ
Just a Thought ^^^^^^^ im not really an expert.
OH OneMean01 That is one great setup 477rwho through catback and no 90 Fast no EWP Damn man.
Back on topic
blk00ss I think you should go MS4 and PRC stg 1 ls6 cuz MS4 is much stronger cam than MS3 i mean look at the LIft on that thing.
Without the fast i think you can get 420-430 rwhp or maybe more if tune right. 
the 5.3 heads TSP sells is 62cc (not sure) so more compression is always good for TQ
Just a Thought ^^^^^^^ im not really an expert.
OH OneMean01 That is one great setup 477rwho through catback and no 90 Fast no EWP Damn man.
Back on topic
blk00ss I think you should go MS4 and PRC stg 1 ls6 cuz MS4 is much stronger cam than MS3 i mean look at the LIft on that thing.
Without the fast i think you can get 420-430 rwhp
or maybe more if tune right.
04-23-2007, 11:30 PM
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erikthegoalie, I think you really need to tighten up the quench. So there for I think you should get LS6 heads with a 220cc intake runners. Mill them down a bit, run a .040 head gasket and flycut. That will definatley optimize your setup.
by the way if you are in the market for some heads check out Livernois they makes some good quality stuff.
by the way if you are in the market for some heads check out Livernois they makes some good quality stuff.
04-23-2007, 11:47 PM
#19
I think I am just going to go with a MS4 cam only for now...Once the wow factor of the cam wears off I'll prolly get a set of 5.3's and get the pistons flycut professionally. I'm sure I'll be more than happy with the power I'll be making! I'm also going to be ordering a Moser 9" pretty soon! This stuff gets expensive!