mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

heres the story;

Just installed a Comp Cam in my 02 ls1 with some patriot dual valve springs/retainers. Stock lifters, stock pushrods.

Reassembly of the motor I soaked the lifters for about an hour, dropped them in, dropped the brown plastic thingys in (dont know what they are called exactly, lifter trays or whatever) torqued stuff down.

Put on headgaskets and heads, torqued stuff down.

Dropped in pushrods, put in rocker arm tray, put in rocker arms, torqued stuff down.

Factory/ARP Torque specs on everything, now the fuddy duddy part.

Motor makes a **** ton of noise from the head, I know thats not an exact measurement but its a **** ton.

Talked to the people whos advice I trust today, got a couple different things.

1. Collapsed Lifters
2. Need shorter pushrods
3. Dont know

The cam I'm using has a smaller base circle than stock so that would lead me to believe #2.

However the rockers I can push down with my thumb, and it requires some pressure but not a lot to do it, which would make me thing #1.

Which leaves me at #3.

The motor runs, put down 385rwhp, with 16:1 a/f and 20lb fuel pressure (charging issues leading to power drain issues, will fix after this) which isn't bad considering no fuel pressure and i know its not safe to run that low, which is why i stopped. we made a couple full throttle dabs to try to diagnose and play with the fpr, but we quit.

I tried to Diagnose the problem, was told to measure the lash, the only way I could seem to do that was by pushing the rocker arm and inserting feeler guages into it, which I was able to install .3xx of feelers by pushing down barely with my thumb with the valves closed on the rocker measurement was taken.

However if the valve is open I cannot move it at all.

Which really leads me back to thinking #2

However when I push down the rocker, its more of a spongy feeling, than a gap feeling, which leads me to #1.

Which again leads to common math, which is both one and two equal three, which leaves me lost.

I'm kinda n00b to messing with this stuff, so just wanted to make a thread, see if anyone has seen this before and had any info.

If theres any other info I can get to make logic let me know, but I'm lost. I know this is probably going to be something one you smarter people read and figure out in two seconds, which is why I posted here. I'm not that knowledgable with this stuff, I try to just keep it simple so it doesnt break and drive it.

NviouSS

iTrader: (8)

your a/f should be more around 13.0. if the base circle of your cam is smaller than stock then you will need longer pushrods.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

the base circle is smaller.

but what I'm not understanding is the spongyness of when i push down on the rocker.

Just spoke to my dad(who's smart with sbc, but not ls1 directly) he made a good point.

If the pushrod is too short, the lifter will never fully have a need to pressurize or whatever the hydraulic lifter does, yeilding in the sponginess when i push down, this makes somewhat sense to me in my ignorant go by what I know and see logic, so I'm really starting to think longer pushrods will solve this problem.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

I know this very much, which is why I haven't been driving the car except in/out of the shop. My fuel pressure is dropping drastically at full throttle (RCI Cell, Aeromotive pump, -8 feed, Magna Charger, -6 return) has about 62psi at idle, under WOT it drops to like 20. As soon as I noticed this no more abuse. I would have stopped abuse with valvetrain noise, But since everyone I work with has solid lifters and huge cams in their daily drivers, we didnt think it was that much noise compared to what were used to every day, but the A/F on the dyno diagnosis led to discovery of the fuel pressure loss, which immediately caused the car to be not beaten on anymore.

But up to 1/4 of an inch? Is this normal, it seems like a lot. I've talked to people who say .0100 is normal, but not .3 (which isnt a quarter of an inch, but spitting out quarter of an inch is less frustrating).

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

Also I don't know if this is important info or not.

Primed oil pump after engine assembly (came as shortblock), made pressure. However my oil pressure guage is not hooked up right now.

kyles2000z

iTrader: (8)

not that this matters....but the lifters did not have to be removed or replaced for a cam swap. and whyd you use stock pushrods? is this motor not gonna be revved higher than a stock cammed motor?

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

i tore the motor down completely, had a machine shop put new bearings and rings in it, balance everything, and just make sure it was at 110%. they called me after they tore it down and told me there wasnt anything wrong with it at all, but i just wanted to be safe.

I'm not revving it past stock rev limit for now. maybe a couple extra hundred rpm and ignition cutout, but i've never had a need to rev it higher, and if i build a motor that can rev, and dont rev it, it should take most any abuse i can throw at it minus the oiling system, which is my next thing to adress in a couple months.

Ericbigmac83

iTrader: (19)

If you put in a new cam its gonna have a smaller base circle and therefore youre gonna need slightly longer pushrods, they have calculators to figure out what length you need or you can just buy a pushrod length checker for like $20.

Thats not saying that there isnt something else wrong tho

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Definetly check the puchrod length & don't skimp on pushrods or you could be regreting it later. Stockers are never suggested after you start makin mods. Get a set of Chromemoly ones the proper length.

m6speed

iTrader: (11)

get a pushrod length checker. i usually let the new lifters soak in oil overnight but thats just me.

WOTFMAN

iTrader: (3)

Did you put a oil restrictor in the back of the block? If you did not the mains and rod bearings are getting oil but your upper valvetrain, lifters are not. Check that. Its behind the rear cover. Id almost lay some cash on this since you had the lower end freshened up...Once you get oil to the top of the motor the lifters will pump up. The LS1's in stock form are not priority oiling setups. Please check this before you mess with the valvetrain anymore and report. Then you can paypal me some $ if I was right. Its a $5 part.

Third Gear

iTrader: (3)

+.025" pushrods should do the trick, but a pushrod checker isn't a bad idea either. If it makes a "**** ton" of noise then definitely say to take a look at the pushrods.

Were you able to get zero lash before the final torque down? You should be able to achieve zero lash (pushrod is difficult to turn - indicating no play, yet no pre-load) before you torque them down.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

I just had a freind come over and I'm not getting oil pressure to the top of this motor. Whats this restrictor you'r talking about, the orange dogbone thing?

Pushrods arent working b/c the lifters arent pumping up, which goes back to no oil pressure. :-/

Cam plate is in, the orange thing is on the back of the motor, what did i **** up here?

Also just added info, this is the 1st time I put a ls1 together, so doing something stupid/ignorant/absent minded is totally not out of the question.

WOTFMAN

iTrader: (3)

Those dogbones arent reusable. Once they are installed once you pull it out and toss it which im sure the machine shop should have done for you. It behind the rear cover. Pull the cover and its on the left side. It its an oil galley plug I believe is the technical term for it.

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

not reuseable?

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

it was in there. I remember looking at it while putting the timing cover on and wondering what that little orange thing was.

lastcall190

iTrader: (36)

+1... you mean the cam retainer plate thing? Or dogbone referring to something else?

-J

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

dogbone = orange plug on backside of motor that plugs oil galley on the left side near the bottom.

lastcall190

iTrader: (36)

Gotcha thanks.