05 GSXR 1XXX

iTrader: (16)

i did a search and didnt really come up with a answer,

the topics always been the 224-228 cams will out perform the bigger cams trex and MS3 at the track or from a dead stop.

i was wondering if your just roll racing would the bigger cam have the advantage or would you still see similar results with the 224-8 till higher speeds?

i had the 233/239 tsp in my vette and pulled great, and was thinking about the MS4 in the WS6 but i dont want a cam thats going to make me really slugish till high speeds.

yes the car is a street/roll racer with very few races going from a dig(dont flame). Im torn between the 228,,,TQ-V2,,MS3 and MS4.

i hate to start a thread thats prob been answerd 500 times but i need to hear from the community!

getthesand0ut

iTrader: (1)

people do talk about the small cams out performing the bigger ones but it all depends on ur setup get big gears or a high stall so it puts it in the curve the whole time.. my friend has a ms3 in his firecock and he dynod 442 and 398 with fast 90/90 and his **** was amazing on the highway up top. and he has 342s still . and u live in texas so im sure someone close will have a big cam that wouldnt mind takn u for a ride.. and the ms4 pulls harder down low more the ms3.. but like i said try to find someone around on here to take ya for a ride

SuperZ

iTrader: (2)

Ive seen a Torquer 2 beat a MS4 on the street from a roll before.Both were 6spd cars.The T2 made 399rwhp and the MS4 made 415rwhp

SLP4CamaroSS

iTrader: (16)

well big part of it is the drive also

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

I just got my MS4 installed, and absolutely love it on highway runs. I dont have any dyno numbers yet, but I have been tuned street wise. A friend of mine has a 03' ported and polished blower blah blah. It put down 46xhp through stock exhaust with flowmasters, and he would put easily 5-6 cars on me before the cam. Now he has put a bassani x-pipe and mufflers. Now it is a drivers race, still learning where to shift mine. Short shifted a few times and beat myself. But overall I am impressed with it. Wouldnt hesitate to buyt it again. Oh yea I am on 3.90 gears with 28" tires, so probably some where close to stock gearing.

SuperZ

iTrader: (2)

sounds like a nasty setup

02NBMWS6

iTrader: (22)

you just need to understand how it works man. i hope by "high speeds" you mean "high rpms" because mph or speed have nothing to do with a cams power delivery, its rpms that count. With the right gearing, that takes advantage of the cam's ability to rev, and keeps the car in the powerband you will not notice any loss of "low end" or ability to go from a dig

the bigger cams you are talking about will walk all over the small cams, no matter what speed as long as you gear the car accordingly

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

Yup. Small cams outperform big cams only in cars where the setup is incomplete.

Mazzenger

iTrader: (5)

I have an MS3 in A4. With 3:73s and 4000 stall it pulls hard at all speeds.
I agree, depends on the complimenting mods.

05 GSXR 1XXX

iTrader: (16)

Well i understand were everyone is coming from, i forgot to add a few things,

I didnt really want to step up the gear anymore than 3.73. and i also dont want to spin the motor more than 6300.

the heads will remain stock unless i find some used ls6's around. Im also installing a 100 dry shot here in 3 days.

The only thing i dont like about the MS4 is the lift of 64x thats so much work on the double springs, concernd about the life of the springs.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

If you don't want to spin your motor more than 6300rpm, then you'll want your hp peak to occur at 6000 rpm. This means you'll want an intake valve closing point of around 40-41 degrees ABDC at .050". A 100 shot will want a 4 degree earlier exhaust valve opening point than what works best NA. Keep in mind, most racing from a roll is won when you make the most hp between shift points. Here's something that would maximize hp in the 4800-6300 rpm range (on motor or with a 100 shot).

226/232 .585/.595 111LSA +3

AU N EGL

Road Racing you want to get out of corners and UP to speed ASAP, as in yesterday. PLUS reliablity.

For many road course it is not uncommon to do 2500 to red line, 3 to 5 times per lap evey 2 min- 2:30 sec for 20 to 40 mins at a time.

Now you have to rember most road corse are more corners and short straights, not long 3000 foor straight, or even 1350 foot straights, more like 150 to 500 feet, with occational 1000 to 3000 foot straights.

Here is an old thread about heads and cam for road racing

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/422520-head-cam-road-racing.html

The idea of not haveing a cam "sluggish" at high speeds, is a question all guys have.

Depending on your Racing Class rules, SCCA or NASA

Here are a few notes from my conversations with other ppl about the same issue:
"The LS1/6 is intake limited, therefore it is RPM limited. Putting a cam in that is ment to peak at 6800rpm is just a waste of lobe. With the current intake
selection (LS1/LS6) the motor can not make power that high in the RPM. So, tightening the LSA on a cam like that would boost power in the mid-top-end
I tighten up the LSA to do just that....make the most power under 6200rpm since this seems to be where most LS1's make peak power....reguardless of cam specs. keep most of the power in the usable RPM range of the motor.'

and

'I don't know those heads. However, given that you don't seem to have much in the way of rules, something in the 224-230 intake seems about right. If you are doing it for the track (and don't care about the street affect), most race cams are around 106-108 lsa advanced around 4 degrees. Depending on how the heads flow, I would shovel in all the lift I could get.

Something like an LSK or XFI. A solid flat tappet cam for a 350cid, intake restricted oval track car (which runs say 4500-7000, twice a lap) would be 252/256 to 256/260 with maybe .600-.620 lift, 106-108 ;sa and a 104 or so ICL. With 28 degree major intensities, that would be 280/284 on the seat.

Next, generally a smaller exhaust is hotter off the turns and bigger exhaust is hotter at the top. So you will have to make the call here. Remember, corner exit speed is for the whole straight.
However, if this is fender to fender, those last few mph make a big difference in passing. One look at the Canadian GP would illustrate that. If it is not fender to fender, I would focus on coming out of the corners, since that will affect lap time most.

HTH
Tom

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

I bet the GM ASA cam would do well. And you would be fairly easy on springs.

AU N EGL

The GM ASA and Cup Cam, maybe old designs but are the two most popular and RELIABLE road racing cams

GM ASA 226/236 525/525 110
2500-6500 rpm range

GM Cup cam 239/251 570/570 106
2000-7000 rpm range

MVDCGTO

Roll Racing not Road Racing.

Zosickness

Cam doesn't matter as much. It's called the driver mod. You figure out where you make your power and use your gears accordingly. If you only had one gear it would matter, but you have multiple gears to select from. Find your power band and use it.

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

That does make a good point. The "roll" race depends so much on who gets a jump. I hardly ever hear a well timed 3 honk race. It doesn't take much to get a 3-5 tenth jump on someone.

AU N EGL

My bad, I though it was a misspelling.

still TQ would give him the JUMP on the other car

MVDCGTO

Unless the op wants to start the roll from 100+ mph a smaller cam, ie not MS3/4 etc, will be better. Big cams are not as fast on the street as some will have you believe. I have a friend with a C5 Z06 with the MS4 and another with a cam similar to the Torquer V3. MS4 car gets whipped down low and only starts to come back after 110+ mph but by that time it has some ground to cover. Doesn't matter which one drives which car, results are the same. All cams have their place.

GT Griller

iTrader: (8)

MS4 and Torquer 3 arent all that far apart...both pretty damn big and healthy.....as for smaller cams being able to take big cams, not so often....i can take down my buddies MS4 from a dig thru the 1/4 mile if i get the jump or he spins a split second more than i do......if we take off the same we are dead even thru 1st i pull in 2nd like a fender then he comes around me in 3rd....from a roll he pulls like a champ and puts about 2-3 cars on me by the top of 3rd (105-115ish) both cars are auto's he has a bigger stall and LS6 intake.