will a ls6 oil pump solve 97 ls1 oiling/ticking problems?
11-12-2007, 11:02 AM
#1
will a ls6 oil pump solve 97 ls1 oiling/ticking problems? Ok, before I decide to install heads, cam, and oil pump on my stock 97 vette 6 spd ls1 (46k mi), I thought I would throw the question out there:
Has anyone changed an oil pump (either alone or as part of a head and cam package) that eliminated a ticking and valvetrain oiling problem?
The reason I ask is b/c I know the oil galleys are smaller and there are a host of other early ls block/engine issues. If a new oil pump doesn't help the ticking/oil flow problem, then I need to look at a newer short block.
-oil pressure idle ~30 psi hot 35psi cold (has been as low as 23psi)
-oil pressure after 0w-20 change and k&n ~38psi
-idle to 2800 rpm (constant throttle or deceleration), ticking sounds like someone driving railroad spikes in my engine
-Under acceleration ticking either goes away or is drowned out, but under constant throttle under 3000k rpm (slight tick) or deceleration ticks the worst.
-the sound seems louder as you approach the car from the sides rather than just standing over top of the engine (could be b/c of all the other noise)
History- ticking became noticeable after slight over rev (may be) 3rd @6k to 2nd but didn't dump clutch, let out slightly realized problem and pushed back in made appropriate shift. Car still feels stronger as ever; however never really noted exact oil pressure before.
Over the course of the last 2 yrs and 15k miles since may be over revn' and 30 days of advanced HPDE track events (so it's been tested):
Action:
-4 shops told me dead lifter (I thought bent push rod) whatever.
-Installed comp valvtrain upgrade kit (lifters, pushrods, 918's, ti retainers, and locks, and even threw in some rolling rockers for good measure).
-heads and old valvetrain was examined by a machine shop when they installed the new springs, retainers, and locks and found nothing wrong w/ the old components. (no bent rods/bad lifters)
Result:
-Ticking is 2x as loud
Action:
-oil filters, mystery cures in a bottle, thinner oil, thicker oil
Result:
-K&N filter and 0w 20 oil reduces ticking temporarily, but after a couple hot cold cycles, the ticking comes right back in force, just as bad as ever.
Action:
- ran the engine w/ valve covers removed
Result:
-barely any oil is coming out of the tops of the rockers, it isn't until about 2500 rpm that you even see a dribble (dribble = enough to form a drop)
Action:
-Replaced stock manifolds (could be a pin hole in stock sheetmetal) w/ headers.
Result:
-still ticking, tons more power.
The engine makes great power, the only reason I'm contemplating a head and cam is b/c it's a waste to just replace the oil pump and not do the cam at the same time. (the power would be nice too)
My car sounds like a diesel and is straight embarrassing to drive (hell I dont even want to drive it like this) and most embarassing is to have to sit next to someone at a light and idle. If I were in the car beside me I'de be like "WOW whats wrong with that?"
I once saw an old '90 dodge caravan w/ the paint falling off that made the same noise. If I thought the person behind the wheel spoke english and knew anything I would have asked them.
My greatest fear is doing the head and cam swap, turning it over and tick tick tick.
Could it be piston slap, bend a rod pin, did I mess up the oil pump, or stretch the timing chain?
Anyone w/ the slightest input/experience would be greatly appreciated.
Has anyone changed an oil pump (either alone or as part of a head and cam package) that eliminated a ticking and valvetrain oiling problem?
The reason I ask is b/c I know the oil galleys are smaller and there are a host of other early ls block/engine issues. If a new oil pump doesn't help the ticking/oil flow problem, then I need to look at a newer short block.
-oil pressure idle ~30 psi hot 35psi cold (has been as low as 23psi)
-oil pressure after 0w-20 change and k&n ~38psi
-idle to 2800 rpm (constant throttle or deceleration), ticking sounds like someone driving railroad spikes in my engine
-Under acceleration ticking either goes away or is drowned out, but under constant throttle under 3000k rpm (slight tick) or deceleration ticks the worst.
-the sound seems louder as you approach the car from the sides rather than just standing over top of the engine (could be b/c of all the other noise)
History- ticking became noticeable after slight over rev (may be) 3rd @6k to 2nd but didn't dump clutch, let out slightly realized problem and pushed back in made appropriate shift. Car still feels stronger as ever; however never really noted exact oil pressure before.
Over the course of the last 2 yrs and 15k miles since may be over revn' and 30 days of advanced HPDE track events (so it's been tested):
Action:
-4 shops told me dead lifter (I thought bent push rod) whatever.
-Installed comp valvtrain upgrade kit (lifters, pushrods, 918's, ti retainers, and locks, and even threw in some rolling rockers for good measure).
-heads and old valvetrain was examined by a machine shop when they installed the new springs, retainers, and locks and found nothing wrong w/ the old components. (no bent rods/bad lifters)
Result:
-Ticking is 2x as loud
Action:
-oil filters, mystery cures in a bottle, thinner oil, thicker oil
Result:
-K&N filter and 0w 20 oil reduces ticking temporarily, but after a couple hot cold cycles, the ticking comes right back in force, just as bad as ever.
Action:
- ran the engine w/ valve covers removed
Result:
-barely any oil is coming out of the tops of the rockers, it isn't until about 2500 rpm that you even see a dribble (dribble = enough to form a drop)
Action:
-Replaced stock manifolds (could be a pin hole in stock sheetmetal) w/ headers.
Result:
-still ticking, tons more power.
The engine makes great power, the only reason I'm contemplating a head and cam is b/c it's a waste to just replace the oil pump and not do the cam at the same time. (the power would be nice too)
My car sounds like a diesel and is straight embarrassing to drive (hell I dont even want to drive it like this) and most embarassing is to have to sit next to someone at a light and idle. If I were in the car beside me I'de be like "WOW whats wrong with that?"
I once saw an old '90 dodge caravan w/ the paint falling off that made the same noise. If I thought the person behind the wheel spoke english and knew anything I would have asked them.
My greatest fear is doing the head and cam swap, turning it over and tick tick tick.
Could it be piston slap, bend a rod pin, did I mess up the oil pump, or stretch the timing chain?
Anyone w/ the slightest input/experience would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by dmiz0420; 11-12-2007 at 01:46 PM.
11-12-2007, 01:13 PM
#2
-Installed comp valvtrain upgrade kit (lifters, pushrods, 918's, ti retainers, and locks, and even threw in some rolling rockers for good measure).
-heads and old valvetrain was examined by a machine shop when they installed the new springs, retainers, and locks and found nothing wrong w/ the old components. (no bent rods/bad lifters)
Result:
-Ticking is 2x as loud
-heads and old valvetrain was examined by a machine shop when they installed the new springs, retainers, and locks and found nothing wrong w/ the old components. (no bent rods/bad lifters)
Result:
-Ticking is 2x as loud
Action:
- ran the engine w/ valve covers removed
Result:
-barely any oil is coming out of the tops of the rockers, it isn't until about 2500 rpm that you even see a dribble (dribble = enough to for a drop)
- ran the engine w/ valve covers removed
Result:
-barely any oil is coming out of the tops of the rockers, it isn't until about 2500 rpm that you even see a dribble (dribble = enough to for a drop)
One option might be to tear-down the front engine dress and replace the oil pump, but replace the timing chain cover with the QTP two piece unit to save yourself some labor later. That way, you can see if the oiling can be resolved without all the labor to do the H/C swap in vain. At least you'll make it easier for future cam swaps too.
Good Luck!
11-12-2007, 01:59 PM
#3
Thanks for taking the time to read through my novel.
I haven't changed back to the stock rockers, I used the yella terra light weight's. It is worth a try to change back.
The QTP timing chain cover looks like a good investment.
I wonder if it's possible/worth it to update the oil galleries in the block, though if the engine were out, I dont think a 346cid would be going back in
I haven't changed back to the stock rockers, I used the yella terra light weight's. It is worth a try to change back.
The QTP timing chain cover looks like a good investment.
I wonder if it's possible/worth it to update the oil galleries in the block, though if the engine were out, I dont think a 346cid would be going back in
11-12-2007, 04:39 PM
#4
Originally Posted by dmiz0420
I haven't changed back to the stock rockers, I used the yella terra light weight's. It is worth a try to change back.
The QTP timing chain cover looks like a good investment.
I wonder if it's possible/worth it to update the oil galleries in the block, though if the engine were out, I dont think a 346cid would be going back in
The QTP timing chain cover looks like a good investment.
I wonder if it's possible/worth it to update the oil galleries in the block, though if the engine were out, I dont think a 346cid would be going back in
TTT for other suggestions
11-19-2010, 01:33 PM
#5
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Hey, did you ever figure this issue out? I have an 02 Z with a phantom tap too...very embarrassing! It causes you to have to race all the time, everyone thinks your motor is about to blow and you'll be an easy LS1 kill. My car still makes plenty of power, but it sounds like a diesel. I've ripped it down to the valley and pulled the valve covers dozens of times...I'm beginning to think this is a PCM issue. Originally I thought this was an oil pump or lifter problem, but due to the fact that I can make it stop after playing with the throttle, I'm thinking PCM. Mine seems to be worse on the interstate after a few miles of a sustained rate of rpm and it seems to come around sooner if I drive like a teenager down the on ramp.
03-14-2013, 08:20 AM
#6
Hey, did you ever figure this issue out? I have an 02 Z with a phantom tap too...very embarrassing! It causes you to have to race all the time, everyone thinks your motor is about to blow and you'll be an easy LS1 kill. My car still makes plenty of power, but it sounds like a diesel. I've ripped it down to the valley and pulled the valve covers dozens of times...I'm beginning to think this is a PCM issue. Originally I thought this was an oil pump or lifter problem, but due to the fact that I can make it stop after playing with the throttle, I'm thinking PCM. Mine seems to be worse on the interstate after a few miles of a sustained rate of rpm and it seems to come around sooner if I drive like a teenager down the on ramp.
