Sludge buildup in engine. What to do?
07-24-2003, 05:45 PM
#1
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Sludge buildup in engine. What to do? My car has approx 40,000 miles on it, and it's at Speed Inc right now. The car overheated on the MFBA spring cruise. Thought it was a bad head gasket, since coolant was very low. Compression test indicates that there isn't likely any headgasket leak, however. No signs of leaks anywhere either. Might be a tiny headgasket leak that the compression test isn't able to pickup, though...
Valve covers are off, and turns out I have one broken valve spring. That explains why the car is running poorly.
The oil didn't show any signs of coolant in it, and a "scientific" taste test (yuck!) didn't indicate any sweetness that would be attributed to coolant.
Oil gets changed every 3000-3500 miles. Zbass found some typical ways that sludge forms in the motor:
-faulty head gasket
-unburned gas contaminating oil
-inadequate oil circulation
-oxides of nitrogen from poor emissions
-engine running too cool
-engine runs hot causing breakdown
-moisture getting into oil (bad oil cap)
The pics below show the sludge:
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00788.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00789.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00790.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00791.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00792.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00793.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00794.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00795.JPG
I'm thinking that when the car overheated, that's when the oil turned into goo.
Options right now seem to be to either pull the whole motor, disassemble everything, clean up all the gunk, and reinstall. (If I go this route, it's a good excuse to upgrade other internal parts, of course...)
OR
find a less labor intensive way to get the sludge buildup out of the motor. I'm not really excited yet about having the motor pulled and basically rebuilt. I've heard of people using tranny fluid mixed in with their motor oil to help do this, due to the detergents in the tranny fluid. Does anyone have any firsthand experience with doing this?
I'm going to see the car on Friday morning myself. It's at Speed Inc right now.
Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
--------------------
2000 Firehawk convertible #25-pewter. 6spd with MTI heads, Comp Cam & numerous other bolt ons. 12.5 @ 114 mph w/ a 2.09 60'.
2002 Subaru WRX-blue. 5spd with a chip, boost controller, & exhaust. 13.39 at 100.7 mph w/ a 1.81 60'.
Valve covers are off, and turns out I have one broken valve spring. That explains why the car is running poorly.
The oil didn't show any signs of coolant in it, and a "scientific" taste test (yuck!) didn't indicate any sweetness that would be attributed to coolant.
Oil gets changed every 3000-3500 miles. Zbass found some typical ways that sludge forms in the motor:
-faulty head gasket
-unburned gas contaminating oil
-inadequate oil circulation
-oxides of nitrogen from poor emissions
-engine running too cool
-engine runs hot causing breakdown
-moisture getting into oil (bad oil cap)
The pics below show the sludge:
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00788.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00789.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00790.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00791.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00792.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00793.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00794.JPG
www.ls1speed.com/danh/DSC00795.JPG
I'm thinking that when the car overheated, that's when the oil turned into goo.
Options right now seem to be to either pull the whole motor, disassemble everything, clean up all the gunk, and reinstall. (If I go this route, it's a good excuse to upgrade other internal parts, of course...)
OR
find a less labor intensive way to get the sludge buildup out of the motor. I'm not really excited yet about having the motor pulled and basically rebuilt. I've heard of people using tranny fluid mixed in with their motor oil to help do this, due to the detergents in the tranny fluid. Does anyone have any firsthand experience with doing this?
I'm going to see the car on Friday morning myself. It's at Speed Inc right now.
Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
--------------------
2000 Firehawk convertible #25-pewter. 6spd with MTI heads, Comp Cam & numerous other bolt ons. 12.5 @ 114 mph w/ a 2.09 60'.
2002 Subaru WRX-blue. 5spd with a chip, boost controller, & exhaust. 13.39 at 100.7 mph w/ a 1.81 60'.
07-24-2003, 06:49 PM
#2
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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Re: Sludge buildup in engine. What to do? What did the car do when it overheated?
Didn't you have a concern earlier this year that the motor was messed up, that it had a blown headgasket?
1) If the motor was low on coolant to start with, you could have overheated.
2) If your fans are not working, you could have overheated.
3) Not likely to overheat from running too cool. Might not have efficient combustion though.
4) If you have a pinhole leak/ burn in the headgasket you could use coolant. But if you got to the point where you overheated I would think that a compression test would show you which cylinder was messed up.
There is a guy down the street from where Speed Inc. used to be (Schaumburg Automedics) and that have that $150 flushing service not sure if that would help.
Otherwise maybe run some cleaner thru the motor and then change the plugs and oil?
Didn't you have a concern earlier this year that the motor was messed up, that it had a blown headgasket?
1) If the motor was low on coolant to start with, you could have overheated.
2) If your fans are not working, you could have overheated.
3) Not likely to overheat from running too cool. Might not have efficient combustion though.
4) If you have a pinhole leak/ burn in the headgasket you could use coolant. But if you got to the point where you overheated I would think that a compression test would show you which cylinder was messed up.
There is a guy down the street from where Speed Inc. used to be (Schaumburg Automedics) and that have that $150 flushing service not sure if that would help.
Otherwise maybe run some cleaner thru the motor and then change the plugs and oil?
07-24-2003, 09:31 PM
#3
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Re: Sludge buildup in engine. What to do?
What did the car do when it overheated?
It was wavering between 210 and 240 degrees on the gauge. Would come very close to red, and then back down again... Had to drive it that way for about 1/2 hour until we found a gas station (rural Wisconsin). Topped it off with water and coolant, and appeared to be normal. Took a 2 hour break for dinner, and then after the car cooled completely down, is when it was running very rough, with SES light, and so forth...
Didn't you have a concern earlier this year that the motor was messed up, that it had a blown headgasket? I had the coolant flushed in early March, and a new thermostat put in, and Speed said I had a loose clamp by the water pump, which is why I had been overheating/losing coolant previously. A pressure test on the cooling system did not indicate a blown head gasket at that time either.
1) If the motor was low on coolant to start with, you could have overheated. Agreed
2) If your fans are not working, you could have overheated.Both fans have been operating correctly. I have confirmed this on multiple occassions.
3) Not likely to overheat from running too cool. Might not have efficient combustion though.Running the 160 degree t-stat, might that be a problem, despite others using it successfully?
4) If you have a pinhole leak/ burn in the headgasket you could use coolant. But if you got to the point where you overheated I would think that a compression test would show you which cylinder was messed up. I agree on that too, but I can't figure out where the coolant is going then...
There is a guy down the street from where Speed Inc. used to be (Schaumburg Automedics) and that have that $150 flushing service not sure if that would help. I'm having Speed flush the cooling system while it's there.
Otherwise maybe run some cleaner thru the motor and then change the plugs and oil? I bought two bottles of Gunk Motor Flush, which is supposed to clean out sludge from the engine by running the car for 5 minutes with this in the oil. I figure it can't hurt to try it at this point, and to do it twice for good measure...
It was wavering between 210 and 240 degrees on the gauge. Would come very close to red, and then back down again... Had to drive it that way for about 1/2 hour until we found a gas station (rural Wisconsin). Topped it off with water and coolant, and appeared to be normal. Took a 2 hour break for dinner, and then after the car cooled completely down, is when it was running very rough, with SES light, and so forth...
Didn't you have a concern earlier this year that the motor was messed up, that it had a blown headgasket? I had the coolant flushed in early March, and a new thermostat put in, and Speed said I had a loose clamp by the water pump, which is why I had been overheating/losing coolant previously. A pressure test on the cooling system did not indicate a blown head gasket at that time either.
1) If the motor was low on coolant to start with, you could have overheated. Agreed
2) If your fans are not working, you could have overheated.Both fans have been operating correctly. I have confirmed this on multiple occassions.
3) Not likely to overheat from running too cool. Might not have efficient combustion though.Running the 160 degree t-stat, might that be a problem, despite others using it successfully?
4) If you have a pinhole leak/ burn in the headgasket you could use coolant. But if you got to the point where you overheated I would think that a compression test would show you which cylinder was messed up. I agree on that too, but I can't figure out where the coolant is going then...
There is a guy down the street from where Speed Inc. used to be (Schaumburg Automedics) and that have that $150 flushing service not sure if that would help. I'm having Speed flush the cooling system while it's there.
Otherwise maybe run some cleaner thru the motor and then change the plugs and oil? I bought two bottles of Gunk Motor Flush, which is supposed to clean out sludge from the engine by running the car for 5 minutes with this in the oil. I figure it can't hurt to try it at this point, and to do it twice for good measure...
Thanks for your input, John!
07-25-2003, 03:31 AM
#5
TECH Senior Member
Re: Sludge buildup in engine. What to do?
Auto-RX...to help with the sludge.
07-25-2003, 01:39 PM
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Re: Sludge buildup in engine. What to do? I add about 6 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil at each oil change. keeps motor clean. Been using it for 30 years.
07-25-2003, 01:48 PM
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Re: Sludge buildup in engine. What to do? Agree w/ Marvel Mystery.....that works!
No doubting Patman, he always researches his products before, during and after use and only recommends what he knows.
As for the GUnk fluch, used it about 10yrs ago in a 79' Z28, although it did flush the slduge out, I also had problems shortly after, eating up bearings. Maybe related, but may not be, I personally wont chance it again.
Good-luck,
Charlie
No doubting Patman, he always researches his products before, during and after use and only recommends what he knows.
As for the GUnk fluch, used it about 10yrs ago in a 79' Z28, although it did flush the slduge out, I also had problems shortly after, eating up bearings. Maybe related, but may not be, I personally wont chance it again.
Good-luck,
Charlie
