Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me!
08-22-2003, 08:11 AM
#1
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me! Hey Guys,
My buddy (VT Trans-Am) is having some issues with his new setup:
'99 T/A M6
TR 224 .563 112
TEA 5.3 heads (10.8:1)
SVO 30# injectors
LS6 intake
Mac Midlengths with cats
ASP pulley
Stock MAF
Stock TB
new fuel filter
LS1 Edit tuning
I think that is most of it... The important stuff at least.
He has KR (as much as 4 degrees) at part throttle and down low in the RPM range at WOT (logged wit ATAP). It is pretty consistent in that when he rolls into it he immediately starts with a high knock value and by 5000 RPM all of the knock clears out and all is well. Up top at WOT his readings look pretty good (25-26 deg timing, .930 MV-little rich but safe-).
When he pulled his plugs they were shot. Electrodes were burnt and the tips were black with red spots-Sounds like a rich condition- What is the red from?
Throttle tip in is a common suggestion in the tuning section- but I really have no idea what this is or how to fix it.
We have listed these things that will cause KR:
-Leaning out/ Detonation/ Pinging
-Banging Exhaust
-Unbalanced Pulley
Here are some others we are tossing around:
-"Blow-By"- Oil in the combustion chaimber
-A very rich conditon
Help us out- Please post all conditions that cause KR significant or insignificant.
TIA
,
My buddy (VT Trans-Am) is having some issues with his new setup:
'99 T/A M6
TR 224 .563 112
TEA 5.3 heads (10.8:1)
SVO 30# injectors
LS6 intake
Mac Midlengths with cats
ASP pulley
Stock MAF
Stock TB
new fuel filter
LS1 Edit tuning
I think that is most of it... The important stuff at least.
He has KR (as much as 4 degrees) at part throttle and down low in the RPM range at WOT (logged wit ATAP). It is pretty consistent in that when he rolls into it he immediately starts with a high knock value and by 5000 RPM all of the knock clears out and all is well. Up top at WOT his readings look pretty good (25-26 deg timing, .930 MV-little rich but safe-).
When he pulled his plugs they were shot. Electrodes were burnt and the tips were black with red spots-Sounds like a rich condition- What is the red from?
Throttle tip in is a common suggestion in the tuning section- but I really have no idea what this is or how to fix it.
We have listed these things that will cause KR:
-Leaning out/ Detonation/ Pinging
-Banging Exhaust
-Unbalanced Pulley
Here are some others we are tossing around:
-"Blow-By"- Oil in the combustion chaimber
-A very rich conditon
Help us out- Please post all conditions that cause KR significant or insignificant.
TIA
,
08-22-2003, 09:03 AM
#2
Launching!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me! I would definitely change to colder plugs and see if that helps. Try a set of NGK TR-6 gapped at .045".
08-22-2003, 04:07 PM
#5
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: ArKanSas, LR
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me! Red huh? Coolant? Been loosing any? Going through O2 sensors?
Main things for knock (just off my head)
Fuel (looks like you have it covered)
Too hot of a plug
Faulse knock (bad sensor??)
Too much timing
Oil consumption
Carboned up (try top end cleaner)
Out of ballance Pully (not to common with ASP)
You know what is funy. I have a REAL similar setup. And CANT figure mine out either. I have tried about everything except the sensor's itself.
HIS MODS -----My MODS
'99 T/A M6 ----98z28
TR 224 .563 112 ----224 .581 112
TEA 5.3 heads (10.8:1) ----5.7 heads shaved .030
SVO 30# injectors ----SVO 30# injectors
LS6 intake ----LS6 intake
Mac Midlengths with cats ----Mac Mids (No cats)
ASP pulley ----ASP pulley
Stock MAF ----Stock Maf
Stock TB ----Stock POrted TB
new fuel filter ----New Fuel Filter
LS1 Edit tuning ----LS! Edit tuning
Main things for knock (just off my head)
Fuel (looks like you have it covered)
Too hot of a plug
Faulse knock (bad sensor??)
Too much timing
Oil consumption
Carboned up (try top end cleaner)
Out of ballance Pully (not to common with ASP)
You know what is funy. I have a REAL similar setup. And CANT figure mine out either. I have tried about everything except the sensor's itself.
HIS MODS -----My MODS
'99 T/A M6 ----98z28
TR 224 .563 112 ----224 .581 112
TEA 5.3 heads (10.8:1) ----5.7 heads shaved .030
SVO 30# injectors ----SVO 30# injectors
LS6 intake ----LS6 intake
Mac Midlengths with cats ----Mac Mids (No cats)
ASP pulley ----ASP pulley
Stock MAF ----Stock Maf
Stock TB ----Stock POrted TB
new fuel filter ----New Fuel Filter
LS1 Edit tuning ----LS! Edit tuning
08-24-2003, 01:13 AM
#7
Launching!
Re: Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me! Thanks for the help guys. I've heard from Colin (BADSS), that a 160* stat might help my detonation. I'm going to order one in the near future, It can't hurt anything and its well worth a shot.
Tim98z: It looks like our cars are set up very similarly. What kind of timing and knock (if any) readings are you getting at WOT with your setup?
I had the NGK tr6's gapped at .050 (Thunder Racing's recommendation) and I just switched to TR55's gapped at .045" with the same results as before. I just can't seem to pinpoint the problem.
My part throttle KR is getting better since Mike at Rapid Motorsports pulled out 4* of timing in the part throttle tables. I'm only seeing a fraction of the KR that I was seeing before at part throttle, but now I'm seeing KR at the initial hit of throttle. I just don't get it.?? Perhaps too much fuel??
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt
Tim98z: It looks like our cars are set up very similarly. What kind of timing and knock (if any) readings are you getting at WOT with your setup?
I had the NGK tr6's gapped at .050 (Thunder Racing's recommendation) and I just switched to TR55's gapped at .045" with the same results as before. I just can't seem to pinpoint the problem.
My part throttle KR is getting better since Mike at Rapid Motorsports pulled out 4* of timing in the part throttle tables. I'm only seeing a fraction of the KR that I was seeing before at part throttle, but now I'm seeing KR at the initial hit of throttle. I just don't get it.?? Perhaps too much fuel??
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt
Trending Topics
08-24-2003, 01:22 PM
#8
Launching!
Re: Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me! Oh and when I pulled my TR6's the outter ring of the plug was black while the inner part of the plug was a brownish/red color.
Thanks,
Matt
Thanks,
Matt
08-24-2003, 08:16 PM
#9
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Warsaw, Va
Posts: 4,316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Help me out..List all causes of Knock Retard....Diagnose me! mine shows KR if i roll into the gas at slight throttle. If i hit the gas hard enough to unlock the verter then the knock goes away. I logged a M6 with a hotcam and his shows up to 8-9degrees of knock in 6th gear at slight throttle.
I had alot of timing up top in mine so i bumped it back down to 27-28 in this summer heat. I may try 29-30 this fall when this humid air goes away. I also had to pull timin in the mid range by 4-5 degrees to help with KR. Its just a combo of weather and gas. I have a feelin the KR will get less and less as the air cools up
i have stage 1.5 TEA's with 11:1CR and a 224/224 .563 114 cam also. You are gonna get some knock with any cam from what I have been told in the lower rpms.
I had alot of timing up top in mine so i bumped it back down to 27-28 in this summer heat. I may try 29-30 this fall when this humid air goes away. I also had to pull timin in the mid range by 4-5 degrees to help with KR. Its just a combo of weather and gas. I have a feelin the KR will get less and less as the air cools up
i have stage 1.5 TEA's with 11:1CR and a 224/224 .563 114 cam also. You are gonna get some knock with any cam from what I have been told in the lower rpms.
