maddboost

iTrader: (11)

Ok so I threw a rod and my engine is shot. I dont have alot of money, infact I think I have $5 but thats something else all together.

Ok so i need a new shortblock and am probably gonna get H/C while im at it. I dont know how much I have to spend honestly. Well im thinking about building my own shortblock. Never done it figured since I now own a paper weight I got some time. So what book(s) would you recommend in learning how to build a LS1. Ive done bolt ons but never any internal engine work. Should I get a GM service manual? Other books? Places to get them? Need to know everything from how to pull the engine, engine assembly, and torque specs and all the little things.

Thats out of the way next point what gonna be the cheapest way to go in a cost versus performance? Assembled short block or build it up? I plan on making it a nitrous motor but a daily driver so it cant be too wild. If im just ranting and making no sense please bear with me I blew my engine only 6 hours ago and still very pissed.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

If you're gonna spray, just do a forged 346 and be done with it.

Smoke_Ford

This is the only book you need. Just rebuild an LS1. Forged 346 with h/c is the way to go.

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

I did the same thing last Oct and haven't had the time/money to start building it till now. You will learn alot from this board. Best recommendation is to find a solid stock shortblock if yours is unusable, and forged piston, some decent rods, nice cam, and the rest of the little stuff, and put it together and throw a 150 shot on it with a decent fuel system. I'm in the same debate, whether building myself, or having one of the sponsors of the site do it. Trying to figure out $ involved and the cost difference between the two.

blu00rdstr

As far as just the shortblock, my forged motor just had to have each next thing, so here's my list...

-- Diamond -8.6cc dished forged pistons 3.905" bore 6.125" rod length with full floating pins and spiral locks
-- Diamond file fit rings
-- Eagle H-Rods 6.125"
-- LS6 block
-- full gasket set
-- oil pump
-- Clevite coated .001 under rod bearings
-- Clevite coated standard main bearings
-- Moving parts balanced
-- block honed to fit pistons
-- rod small end honed to fit piston pins
-- crank polished
-- Cometic 0.50 head gaskets
-- ARP head 12-pt studs
-- ARP main 12-pt studs
-- Manley stock length pushrods
-- ARP assembly lube
-- ARP thread sealant
-- Thunder Racing blower cam 224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
-- Rollmaster double roller timing chain set
-- New front pulley (old one was wobbly according to machine shop)
-- another rear oil seal (screwed up install on first one)

The worst part is time. If you buy a built shortblock the time into labor, the time waiting on shipping, and time on machine shop is taken care of.

WICKED SS

iTrader: (36)

How much hp can these forged 346's handle with the stock crank 700? I know after a while (spraying 150 shot on top of H/C) I will need to rebuild my motor and was thinking the a forged 346 is the cheapest way. Whats the cheapest I could spend on parts, labor, and machine work?

I was also looking at ARE's forged 346 for $3,750 cause when your done with all the parts and labor you might be around that but its ready to go with ARE.
I wonder if I can save money on buying the parts and have a shop put it together and machine work?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

A copy of the Helms manuals (set of 3) are very handy. The head torque #'s in the 98 books are not accurate they were revised in 1999.

Best thing to do is to decide what you want the car to do and then to figure out how much it will all cost.

When in doubt you can call Bill at Opel Engineering in Streamwood for quotes on labor. I had him go thru my 6.0 heads, and redo the valve job, but he also redid my old 422ci for the guy who bought it from me.

2001 Pewter WS6

iTrader: (43)

I rebuilt my own motor after I threw a bunch of rods bearings from an oil pump that failed. Anyway, it really isn't that hard of a job. Mainly taking your time and checking everthing for clearances and gaps. Get a good set of repair manuals and it will walk you through it. Definately not rocket science. In all honesty don't take shortcuts or you will be redoing things. Buy good components that will last. It is a great feeling of accomplishment when you turn the key and it fires up. Another alternative which may prove to be cost efficient, check out the parts for sale. JPR had some good prices on a couple of used short blocks... Good luck in which ever way you decide to go...

MelloYellow

Iron can be cheaper also.

Vents

iTrader: (9)

mine was..

it's always cheaper if you build it yourself, but do you trust yourself to do it right? thats the key here.

PacerX

iTrader: (4)

Ummmm...

I think I'd qualify that statement.

To do it right, there's a whole list of measurement tools needed, and they aren't cheap.

Now, you can rent them, but how accurate do you think they are going to be?

I've bought mine, I baby them. It wasn't cheap. Matter of fact, it would be cheaper to let a shop build it after you total up the measurement tools alone - if you get good ones.

I might buy crappy parts for a beater at Autozone, but with a measurement tool, it's Starret or nothing for me. Starret = $$$$.

Z-Rated

What kind of special tools do you need?

Vents

iTrader: (9)

um.. well i do see your point, however, plastiguage, feeler guages, a mic, TQ wrench and a dial indicator wont add up to quite what some of these sponsors are charging the average shortblock. i list those items because thats all i used. even if you bought your own engine components and farrmed out the work to your local maching shop, it would be an arm cheaper than having some of this boards sponsors compile one for you.

not to start a pissing match, but i've got less than 3k in my entire motor... and it's all forged, balanced, and correctly assebled.

jmX

IMO if you are on a tight budget, dig up a used stock shortblock and put it in. If you are going to want to rebuild it you're going to spend a couple grand, and it doesn't sound like you have a couple grand to blow. You can swap shortblocks in a weekend with an engine hoist.

Vents

iTrader: (9)

w3rd..

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

I have been looking into building the short block myself and I think it would be cheaper to have a local machine shop assemble it. The tools are not cheap for what you need, about $400ish. Also I could be time consuming if you already to not know what to check and torque specs. A local shop that has assemble several LSx motors will assemble the short block parts for $300. IMO that is well worth the money.

PacerX

iTrader: (4)

A quality bore gage set will run you a few hundred dollars on its own.

Forgive my opinion as it may offend you (I'm really not trying to be a jerk - forgive me in advance please), but I always felt that plastigage was for hacks.




Point well taken, but there is a lot of value in having an a$$ to kick besides your own if your $5000 motor grenades. I guess I'm saying it's a risk, and like you I'm willing to take it, but I know full well what I'm getting into, and I might end up making a coffee table out of a rather expensive hunk of aluminum.




No pissing match. We can disagree like gentlemen.

robertbartsch

Question:
If you purchased a "new" block, new crank, new pistons, new rings, new bearings etc. (e.g., a complete rotating assembly and new block) and your purchase is speced out, isn't the probability that the parts are not machined within spec somewhat remote?

In this case, can't you plastiguage the clearances, use feeler guages and dial indicators to get an idea if your in the ball park?

I understand this would be foolish for a block that has been machined, a crank that has been offset ground, a set of new pistons that is intended to match a particular bore, etc.

The reason I ask is that I intend to buy a rotating assembly, new block, have it balanced professinally and build the engine myself.

Is this a high-stakes gamble?

PacerX

iTrader: (4)

1) I trust GM. GM gets parts right at a far greater rate than the aftermarket or outside machinists. ONE screwed up motor in a plant is a HUGE deal.

2) Everybody else... well, they get measured.

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

If I look back and add up the parts for the engine that MTI built, and the obvious machine work (all within 25% of normal local engine machine costs), I believe the price for assembly was somewhere between 300 and 600 dollars.

I'm not sure if it's only if the engine is installed by them (obviously more $$$), but the engine has a warrantee on it.

I think jmX has the right idea. THere are several used shortblocks floating around for decent prices. Find one and do the reasearch into its history. After shipping, little parts and incidentals, you'll probably be around 2k$ to get you back where you were. Then start saving for the nicer stuff. The price of all the parts and work is going to start creeping from incidentals on a forged self-assembled setup from the get-go, and probably drive you to a sanatorium if the car is sitting without an engine for the time. (Been there, done that)

chris