Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

will you have a catted option?

Toddoky

Yes, the exact points you mentioned heavily influenced our development/design efforts on this project. The same design/build quality you've noticed in the late-model Blackheart products is applied here to these applications, so those wanting a high quality exhaust system with an extremely good balance of performance, sound and ground clearance at a reasonable price will be pleased with the characteristics of this system.

Thanks for your comments about the Blackheart line...we've invested a lot of time, design effort and capital into that line to ensure its success. There's a lot of talent on our design team and we're building all those applications here in Bowling Green, KY so as to have 100% control of the build process.

Toddoky

This system was designed with high ground clearance for off-road/racing appliacation only, so no provisions to install cats was designed into this system as it sits. However, I'll let the "cat" out of the bag (sorry, I couldn't resist) at this point and announce that I will shortly be working on the design of a cat-back system based on this same design that will attach the inlet pipes of the system directly to the outlets of the stock catalytic converter pipes on LS powered 4th-gens. The intention of that system is to provide the market with a 50-state legal dual exhaust system with the same crossover and fitment features that are found in the off-road system being previewed here.

Offering cats for these types of applications is a sticky situation from a liability standpoint and is not something we currently engage in.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Very interesting, and I'm happy to see that companies are still investing in bringing new products to market for the 4th gens. There's guys like me who have owned these cars since new, who don't mind spending a couple dollars on quality parts for them.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

Exactly.

I've had mine for 14 years since new.

To the OP - the clearance of your system is AMAZING! Looks like a top quality product and I appreciate that aspect.

I have Kooks 1 7/8" long tubes with their 3" true dual exhaust.

I used to have it mated to their stepped 1 7/8" to 2" long tube header but clearance was horribly unacceptable.

One thing to consider; many of us have aftermarket, larger than stock wheels.

I run 19" HRE's which help with clearance a great deal on my current setup and I don't really run into clearance issues all that often.

So for future R&D you could consider the 3" true dual system with the thought of cars with bigger wheels offering better than expected clearance.

Toddoky

There's still plenty of passionate 4th-gen F-body enthusiasts out there, which is why we invested in the development of these new parts and some others that are in the works for this vehicle application. I'm glad to see guys like yourself noticing this thread and providing feedback.

Toddoky

Since you are a current user of the Kooks system I really appreciate you providing your opinion here.

We actually considered doing a 3" system first, but quickly realized the fitment constraints imposed by the stock vehicle architecture would not allow us to achieve the level of fitment we require with our new Blackheart line and be within a price range that would be attractive to a large enough group of users to justify the development costs.

The ground clearance and fitment of this system was maximized for use on cars with stock suspension and wheel/tire sizes so as to provide a positive experience for all users, not just those that have able to upgrade their wheel/tire packages. Due to this requirement, the system had to retain the stock panhard brace and heat shields on the car and provide the ability of the driveshaft to clear the exhaust system tubing with the rear suspension in full droop.

Popping out a 3" system in the future is not out of the realm of what we have plans to do here, but if we ever do come out with one it won't come in anywhere near the price point of what this system will sell for. This is the primary reason we pursued the development of this system as there was a real hole in the market for something better than the single pipe/muffler systems on the market and vastly more affordable than what the Kooks system is.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

I can see all your points clearly and I definitely agree with the business model you chose here.

The kooks 3" system isn't cheap to start with and THEN all the "other" parts you have to buy just to clear two 3" pipes over the axle.

Words like "cost effective" are not present in the kooks situation lol.

I think your 2.5" system will sell, and perform, very well to anyone running stock displacement setups.

Toddoky

I'm glad the direction we went makes sense to you and others who look at this application from a logical standpoint...we didn't want to end up with a system that would sit on many user's wish list but rather one that would be at the right price to encourage many users to click the "buy it now" button. I'll do my best to keep the prospect of a 3" system alive with Holley management and we'll see what happens in the future.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

System looks great......except for the tips they look a bit cheap by comparison.

I would also like to see a pic from the side of the rear bumper perspective to see how much the system would hang down below the bumper. Im wondering if you can see the mufflers from the side of the car

Toddoky

Tip styling preferences are certainly something that varies greatly between users and it would be difficult to come up with one design that satisfies every user. We went with single wall tips to keep in line with the intended target cost of the system as dual wall tips are expensive and their use here would have pushed the kit price close to $1,000.

Some would be willing to shell out the extra cash for the bling and others not, so individuals will have to decide for themselves if the tips are a deal breaker for them or not. A nice feature of the tips however is that fact that they are adjustable, which is helpful since the amount of under-bumper protrusion that looks right on a Camaro does not look right on a Firebird.

A user could also opt to use one of the many sets of polished 4th-gen Camaro flat style tips sold on ebay and other sites as they have 2.5" inlets just like the tips in the Hooker system have.

This attached image is the closest one I have to being dead-square to the side of the car on a Firebird Formula; you will be able to see the mufflers from the side of the car on all versions of 4th-gen bumpers (their visibility will be most obscured on a Trans Am).The tips shown are mild steel prototypes, the production tips will be polished 304ss with laser etched logos.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

looks like due to the design you cant opt for any other tip but yours either, I dont think I'm your target audience so take this with a grain of salt, but if someone is gonna spend $800 on an exhuast I think the part of the system that everyone will see should look the part.

Toddoky

Your opinion is duly noted and respected. I don't know if you caught the part where I mentioned the stock flat-style 4th-gen Camaro tips would be compatible as well, but they may not be what some users are looking for. I'm not into bling myself when it comes to tips and prefer them to be on the subdued side, so the tips as they are would work fine by my tastes. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

It's good to see the aftermarket still supporting the 4th gen's. I'm interested in seeing the real world difference between these mid length headers/true duals compared to LT's/single. On a stock displacement engine my guess the spread isn't as big as some might think.

I understand the individual tubes aren't as long but the but after the collector looks fantastic.

I'm also really interested in the sound difference between a LT/ORYP setup compared to this.

Not everyone w/ a 4th gen has their car set on kill. I honestly think these will sell well.

OffspringZ28

iTrader: (8)

Very interested in this. Will the muffler system be modular so that us CME guys can get it to fit the 90 degree bends? It looks like the mufflers are too close to the tips as it is.


Thanks for doing this btw.

Toddoky

Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to do some comparative dyno testing in that regard in the future.
As you've noted, much of the performance benefits of long-tubes is negated once they're connected to a closed exhaust system, especially when they are connected to the factory 2.25" Y-pipe and a single overaxle tube and single muffler.

Toddoky

The mufflers are modular to the point that the tips clamp on to the muffler outlets.

By "CME" do you mean the tips that exit in the center of the bumper? If so, I don't see why a competent fabricator couldn't provide that connection for you by using 2.5" U-bends bent on a 4" centerline radius to splice the components together.

OffspringZ28

iTrader: (8)

Yes the center mount exhaust. And sounds good! Looking forward to seeing more of this exhaust, I think it's a good idea and the kooks system could use some competition.

That_One_Person

iTrader: (4)

I actually like the idea of this more and more. Sure the odd mid-length headers are a bit of a letdown. Going from a completely stock car to true duals as of now is going to require at least $1000 due to having to buy torque arm relocation parts. For $1400, being made out of 304, and working with all stock suspension, you guys might be on to something here. I just bought my bone stock 01 Z with 27k miles on it in April and i'll be keeping an eye on this. Hate being quiet but hate the damn y-pipe more.

Toddoky

Thanks for sharing your feedback, I think many others will see the advantages and value associated with this system as you do. It won't be what every 4th-gen owner is looking for, but then again no system is.