Toddoky

Hey guys, I'm creating this thread to preview some new exhaust products coming out from Hooker for 4th-gen F-body cars to give anyone interested the opportunity to see some install photos and also answer any technical/fitment/compatibility questions that they may have. This is my first post in this area as I'm normally previewing LS swap related products in the Conversions and Hybrids section. To begin things, Hooker will soon be releasing new 1-3/4" and 1-7/8" stainless steel mid-length headers and a bolt-on compatible 2.5" dual exhaust system (with X crossover) for these cars. The first five pictures I've loaded here show the exhaust system installed under the car, connected to the headers and finally how the tips exit under the Camaro, Firebird Formula and Trans Am bumpers.

s_desantis

Any audio clips?

INIT2WIN

iTrader: (8)

When is this system going to be offered to the public? What will be the price point, will it be offered in a 3", and will it be offered to fit up with their long tubes?

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Agreed on the Longtubes (Mid-lengths are so 2001 ) My headers have been on forever. A resobanbly prices system like this with Longtubes would garner my attention.

Toddoky

There will be audio clips posted once the completion of the final test fitment and validation phase is completed. I will be doing the final pre-production installation on the development vehicle within the next week and will record/post audio clips following that work.

Toddoky

The 1-7/8" headers will be released by the end of this month, followed by the 1-3/4" headers and then the exhaust system, which should hit the shelf within 45 days from now. The suggested retail price of the headers is $678 for the 1-7/8 version and the exhaust system will have a SRP of $783.95.
A 3" version of this particular exhaust system will not be made available as it cannot be made to fit within the same design space while providing the same optimized ground/component clearances.

These new products will be built to the heightened design/construction requirements of our new Hooker Blackheart product line and no effort has been made at this point to provide direct connectivity to existing Hooker Comp or SuperComp long tube headers; to do so would have lessened the achieved ground clearance obtained in the design of the combined header/exhaust system and defeated some of the other design attributes, such as providing compatibility with 4L80 transmission swaps and locating the O2 bungs for proper wide-band O2 sensor operation. We will listen to the input of you our customers to determine whether we design a new set of long tubes or not to follow later.

Toddoky

A well designed set of mid-lengths with a lot of design effort spent on the collector geometry will not give up that much to the average set of long tubes. The mid-lengths won't fit everyone's requirements, but for those wanting a good balance between power and the absolute best ground clearance under their car the combination of these headers and the exhaust system will hit the mark. For those that have interest in using the exhaust system with long-tube headers, any competent fabricator would be able to make that a reality for you.

Toddoky

Here's a picture of the headers and exhaust system assembled together out of the car so the parts can be seen in more detail.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

Would you at least offer tubes to connect to whichever headers one has to the system (whichever hooker headers more specifically)

Many will not by the system if it wont connect to headers they already have or want.

Toddoky

Thanks for your post. This new system of components is not realistically meant for every 4th-gen enthusiast out there. Making adapter pipes for other brands of headers on the market is unfortunately not feasible as there is not enough potential sales volume to justify the development/fixturing cost associated with each. This is the reason other 4th-gen exhaust systems on the market also do not attach directly to any particular brand of headers, excluding the 3" Kooks system (which only attaches to Kooks' headers and no others). If you wanted to connect this new exhaust system to another brand/type of header it can be accomplished through the fabrication of custom inlet tubes, which any competent fabricator can accomplish for you.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

that is why i specified hooker headers. having the option for people who have not just long tubes but also shorty headers from hooker would be more likely to look at the system as an option.

i may myself get the system for my third gen camaro and adapt it to the car.

Toddoky

I guess I misunderstood your post somewhat. The exhaust system in its current configuration is designed to attach directly to the new Hooker mid-length headers you see connected to it in the photo; they will be available with 1-3/4" or 1-7/8" primary tubes.we may also produce other headers that connect to the exhaust system in the future depending on the level of customer interest that develops.

From what I've been told, the system should be quite adaptable to a 3rd-gen...I'll know soon enough as it's the next vehicle platform coming in for me to do product development on.

kyoytey1693

iTrader: (7)

We're all interested in td systems. However, it sounds like you guys are being fairly rigid in what you are willing to offer. That being said, you're exactly right, you're only going to sell this to a few 4th gen fbody guys. The rest of us have our preferred long tubes and aren't willing to take a step back into mid lenght tubes. Sure we can have someone fabricate something but by the time we buy the exhaust from you then pay a fabrincator, I bet we're in Kooks ballpark for a complete system.

Also a really strong point to note, no one is going to sell a new exhaust system/design etc on this site w/o some good quality sounds clips. I'd start there if you really want to sell these things.

Toddoky

Thanks for providing your feedback,it's a benefit I receive from these preview threads. Our intent is not to be rigid and what you see previewed here should be taken as a starting point from which we can develop future applications (i.e. other headers) based on user input from people such as yourself. I can happily report that the combined price of these headers and the exhaust system is cheaper than the Kooks dual exhaust system alone and does not require the user to purchase/install an aftermarket panhard bar set-up like the Kooks system does (another 200 to 400 dollar hit to take). Other advantages this system has over the Kooks system are far better ground clearance, the retention of the factory fuel tank heat shields and that fact that it's much quieter inside the car. You could therefore have someone modify this system to fit with any headers of your choice and be rewarded with a set-up that provides better functionality than the Kooks system and keep a ton of money in your wallet at the same time. I agree with you on the sound clips and we will be getting to that stage very soon and I'll be posting them up here once they are captured. Thanks again.

My6speedZ

iTrader: (18)

No one is going to buy this. Kooks is full 3", this is not. The Kooks is made for long tubes...this, is not. Not seeing the point in this product. Sorry fella. I think if someone is seriously considering the Kooks system they are aware how expensive it is. Making these only fit mid lenght headers is only costing you sells. Think of how many have long tubes there are out there vs mid lenght. Who's choice was it to make them fit a set of headers you have to produce and make versus an exhaust that bolts to all those headers you've already made, plus other generic long tubes out there?

Toddoky

Thanks for providing your opinion. The Kooks system is only made to fit the Kooks long tubes, so adapting it to fit with any other brand of long tubes will take the same amount of effort and fabrication as it will to connect this new Hooker system to a set of long tubes other than the Kooks long-tubes. If your engine does not require the mass flow capability of a 3" system, then installing one on your car will have a negative effect on the performance of your vehicle. This exhaust system and the headers are not targeted to the segment of users that actually need the flow capability of a 3" system (475HP-up); they are specifically targeted towards users that have cars producing less than 475HP and are looking for an optimized balance between performance, sound, interior noise and another key characteristic that has been poorly addressed in any dual system produced so far. The "other" characteristic I'm referring to is ground clearance and it is the key feature of this new system that precluded us from merely attaching this new exhaust system to the multiple Hooker long-tube headers that exist for 4th-gen applications. In regards to specific header designs, there has not been a set of mid-length headers made to date for a 4th-gen that have used a collector design worth a damn and a very large percentage of the available long-tube headers for these cars are equipped with non-optimized collectors as well(covers pretty much all the Chinese long tubes sold on ebay). As I mentioned previously, these components should be seen as a base from which we can develop future new product applications from through the type of input that you guys are providing here.

My6speedZ

iTrader: (18)

I respectfully disagree, a stock LS1 will benefit from a 3" exhaust. Why offer the 1-7/8 primary with a 2.5" exhaust? If you feel that 3" exhaust is detrimental to cars that are nearly stock why offer the 1-7/8. Seems kind of like an identity crisis. It has been proven that 1-7/8 heads loose little within the rpm range of actual use so the 1-3/4 and 2.5" just doesn't make sense. Also, the Kooks TD system is not limited to Kooks headers. It might not say it fits other brands but it does. I just feel like you guys are missing the mark with these.

Toddoky

If peak HP numbers on the dyno are the benefit you are speaking of, then yes, you may be able to see a few maximum top end ponies out of a dual 3" system over a 2.5" dual system on even an LS1 application. Along with that on a 4th-gen F-body application however you have to accept the considerable increase in interior noise, severely reduced ground and component clearances and in the case of the Kooks system, an extremely expensive cost of purchase. You are making the assumption that every 4th-gen user will be comparing this system to only to the Kooks 3" dual system, when in fact they will also be looking at it as an alternative to all the single tailpipe/muffler kits available out there (Magnaflow, Corsa, Flowmaster etc...). At less than half the cost of the Kooks system, with less interior noise and far better ground and component clearances everywhere than that system, this kit will appeal to many users who don't share your same needs/use criteria. The amount of header/exhaust system mixing and matching that is undertaken by enthusiasts and the general need for 1-7/8" headers for LS applications is what prompted the inclusion of the 1-7/8" headers in this development program so that they can be primarily sold on an individual basis to those who want to use them with an exhaust system of their choice...or of course be connected to the new Hooker exhaust system as well. Their existence obviously also lends support to the future development of a 3" system if we make the choice to do that. So, to sum things up, the current available selection of single pipe systems leave a lot of performance gains on the table and don't sound that great and the Kooks dual 3" system is extremely loud and expensive and has severely compromised ground clearance...these combined negative characteristics are what the new Hooker system was designed to avoid or negate. For those reading this thread that aren't aware the Kooks system is price around $1,650 ($1,750 with cats) and the new Hooker system will be priced around $750...that is less than some of the single pipe/single muffler systems that are available.

My6speedZ

iTrader: (18)

Just because the pipes are half an inch bigger doesn't mean they are magically twice as loud, I also had plenty of ground clearance with 3 inch duals and my car was really low when I had them. Lower than most guys that rock the normal BMR and Strano springs. It is also is not just a dyno number issue with the primaries, it has been proven at the track. That whole stock displacment 1-7/8 primary thing was laid to rest a long time ago. If people are thinking "okay I have to get the most performance for my limitied budget" what makes you think they are going to want a resonably priced true dual/mid header set up? If they are strapped for cash they will probably go and get some pacesetters that are long tubes.

I'm not hating, really, I'm not. They look like nice units. These cars are so popular because as each day goes by younger and younger guys can buy them to go fast on the cheap. Guys who mod on their parents dollar and work part-time min-wage jobs when highschool summers roll around. I just don't see there being a large market for something like this. You would have better luck pushing those mids as a swap header.

Nevertheless, I going to quit posting in this thread, I don't want any heat.

Toddoky

You won't get any heat here from me for posting your opinion, I actually appreciate it. The Kooks system is not noticeably louder purely by nature of it being a 3" system, it's also due to the diameter of the mufflers and the design/construction of the tips. You may not have had issues with the ground clearance of the Kooks system, but others will depending on where and how they drive their car. I will be posting comparative install photos here of both systems to show their differences in that regard. It's not our purpose to tell users what size header primaries they should or shouldn't use on their car; even though you and I would choose to run 1-7/8" primaries, other users have varying reasons for wanting to run an 1-3/4" primary tube size...like swapping a 4.8L or 5.3L into these cars for instance (yes that is happening at this time). The use of these headers in a swap application as you alluded to is indeed part of our plan here and more components related to that for 4th-gen applications will be forthcoming shortly. Again, the mid-length design of the headers won't be for everyone, but they will hit the sweet spot for those wanting a measurable power increase over the stock manifolds and that want no part of the diminished ground clearance that comes with using any brand of long tube headers. I know the Pacesetters are a valued choice by many F-body users, but for many others their build quality does not provide what they are looking for.