Mike-Omologato-G.

I have a LS2 GTO. at 30,000 miles I put in a cam 238-242/605-609-112. After 30,000 miles, the cam was absolutely destroyed on 1 lobe, massively damaged on another, and several of the lifters were pitted...a couple were basically trashed. It all started as I tried to diagnose the tick tick tick in the valvetrain.

A local shop (that did the initial install) kept thinking it was exhaust sounds. After several hundred dollars in gaskets and labor, the noise persisted. Completely fed up with the shop, I literally RAN away from them, and went elsewhere. IMMEDIATELY, they diagnosed valvetrain noise, and pulled the cam and lifters and I was shocked at the carnage.

We replaced the cam with a newer one of the same specs, and new comp lifters instead of stock. After the rebuild, valve job too, I ran a quart of Lucas synthetic and changed the oil twice in 3000 miles or so. All was well.

I couldn't find any Mobil1 5w30, so I bought Royal Purple 5w30. Almost overnight that same tick tick tick came back again, but even louder, and impossible to live with. I go to the new shop that installed the 2nd cam, and he suggested Castrol Dino oil 20w50 and a quart of Lucas. he absolutely swears by it, and runs it in his ls1 truck. In fact, as I was there today, his wife, who went to change the oil in his truck today, accidentally allowed the techs to go by the book. That was M1 5w30. He was in the process of taking it out when I got there. He was putting in exactly what he told me to use (Castrol Dino + Lucas)

I have had this car for almost 4 years, and bought it with 5 miles on it. 2 weeks ago oil change was the 1st time it has seen other than M1 5w30, and I used RP. That is all I can think of. No unusual horseplay, no nothing. Tick tick tick !!!

Please help. I have come from another forum to get additional replies, because the retards have entered my thread, and I would care for serious replies only, as I am VERY concerned that I may be chewing up my cam/lifters again.

I have all bolt ons and 430rwhp 400rwtq.

Can anyone help me ? Why would this shop owner swear by it, if other GTO owners (not shop owners) scoff ?

v8newb

lifter trays?

Meaning they could be the cause and did you change them out?

When the damaged lifter was pulled, was its orientation wrong?

If it went sideways then your lifter trays were at fault, and if they were not replaced then you did it again.

v8newb

actually- if all were damaged to some extent, I would guess it may be an oiling issue....

What's your oil pressure? Check the oil pump o-ring.

Mike-Omologato-G.

The trays looked good, except for being plastic ! At least half of the lifters looked good. 2 were a bit funky, and 2 were really bad. One lobe on the cam was grooved at least 2mm, and one was worn a bit. I don't know the oil pressure. How easy is it to set up a gauge ?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Not being a dick.....but putting Lucas crap or any other fraud additive in your oil is just plain ridiculous. All that does is change the chemistry of the oil and thin it out...which in turn, damages the internals. Sometimes over a long time...sometimes fast.

Second....people put too much thought into oil. It makes absolutely no difference what brand, synthetic, non-synthetic, weight you use........as long as its kept clean it'll be perfect (3,000 mile changes). I have used 20w50 CHEAP $3.00 a quart non-synthetic Castrol GTX oil and I just passed 128,000 miles with my built 427ci stroker engine.....its still 100% perfect and has never had a single issue. I have also used Advance Auto 20w50 many times when they were out of Castrol.

You see people here using every single type, brand and weight of oil....it comes up all the time, and everyones engines are just fine and run the same. That proves it makes no difference what is used.

You have something mechanical thats wrong, its definitely not the oil. Maybe its an oiling delivery/flow issue, but its NOT the oil itself. Our LSx engines are basic engines, they are nothing special at all. Even big old strokers.

****Oil becomes important on purpose built, special engines with specific tolerances. Otherwise, its no different than any production engine.****

STOP putting additives in your oil, that mechanic at the new shop is doing nothing but hurting his engines.

.

v8newb

above your oil filter there is a little triangular shaped cap- it has 2 nuts holding it on.

remove and then drill and tap for an oil pressure sender. 1/8" NPT drill with 21/64 bit (I think). You may need a new gasket for that piece, but it's only like $5. Also, use oil on the tapper, it makes it much easier to do the job.

There is a thread on the gto ls forums you posted this on- it gives the part numbers for some adapters you can use if you don't want to drill and tap.

Both methods will work.....

JBM

iTrader: (15)

The Lucas additive will NOT thin the oil out. It will make it incredibly thick. It has a heavier viscosity than gear oil. If you are sold on the Lucas additive, use 20wt oil with it.
UOA has pretty much proven that the ls platform works best with an oil in the 40wt range. Take your pick on brands.

Mike-Omologato-G.

Thanks for the replies. I am not sold on Lucas. I was reluctant to use it the first time, but after the 2nd new cam install, first time with new lifters, I thought it was the right idea.

So, JBM, you suggest a w40, as many of the other guys swear by. My question is, should I try a 0w40, or a 5w40 ? I know that the 0 has a better flow in cold, but I live in Houston.

Again, thanks for the replies.

JBM

iTrader: (15)

I run Lucas synthetic 0w-40 in my 6.0 2500hd. This oil has given me great OA results. Its a pita to find though. Mobil1 5w-40 would probably be my local auto parts choice. The 0w-30 "german"Castrol Syntec is almost a 40 wt and is another great choice.

silverz28camaro

iTrader: (20)

Are you sure your pushrod lenght is right with this cam? roller lifters are not picky on oil at all, the best oil to have is clean oil and proper level. I use ls7 lifters on my ls2 with 5w 30 oil. these mootors with cams will have valvetrain noise, but it shouldn't be to bad. Some say roller rockers will quiet these noisy cams down, but if you had damaged parts I would look into the pushrods, or lifter trays.

Also did you say you have 30.,000 miles on this cam? most springs with cams this big are recommended to be changed out at 20,000 miles. I've heard a few big cammed cars have one broken dual valvespring and the noise was bad, but it also ran bad. maybe valvefloat from a weak spring caused the lifter damage?

If you can upload some pics of the damaged parts.

I would not run that thick of oil through these engines, maybe a 10-30 in the summer, but the thicker oil will have a harder time flowing throughout the engine. I have always run 5w-30 in my ls2 with a cam similar to yours. its not the oil!!!

Jimbo1367

I like Silverz idea. Double check pushrod length. And while you are at it, pull the lifter trays. There is obviously SOMETHING else wrong.

I personally used Lucas oil additive on a 70,000 M car and it mad the ticking worse. Alot worse. I take it it thickened the oil too much. I went back to reg. Pennziol oil and the ticking went to the "normal" tick LOL.

I would NEVER use LUCAS oil products again. Just my bad experence

Dustin@PremierAutosports

iTrader: (2)

I use Rotela 15w40. I know it is deisel oil, but it is one of the few oils you can get from your local parts store that still has ZDDP. Valvoline offroad 20w50 also has ZDDP, but I don't care to run anything that thick.

ZDDP is an anti friction chemical that has been removed from oil in the last few years. Your engine loves ZDDP, catalytic converters do not. It has been reduced because it harms converters and puts off small amounts of pollutants.

All engines are designed to run on oil with ZDDP. If you are stuck on you current oil selection, GM EOS additive is the only one to put in your motor. Unlike the Lucas, the GM EOS increases the ZDDP and moly content of your oil.

silverz28camaro

iTrader: (20)

the thing with deisel oil is tht most times it has more zinc in it, on a flat tappet cam this is the best oil, only problem is that it causes catalitic converter problems, but if you removed them this oil will meet all your needs.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

additives in oil is hilarious.

But its gonna take another decade I guess for people to realize its a stupid thing to do. Thats part of the marketing scam.

.

Texas_WS6

iTrader: (9)

It is not an "OIL TYPE" problem. I personally do not fall for oil additive scams either. You choose the weight of the oil for what your engines clearances are and for the type of use/environment it will be used in. Stock engines have very tight piston to cylinder wall clearances so lighter oil is needed. Forged piston aftermarket engines usually have lots of clearance in the piston to wall area so heavier oil is better. An engine used up North were it will run in cold weather (cold to me) needs a lighter oil, running down south here in the desert were it is 100+ degrees all summer and the pavement can cause 3rd degree burns on bare feet, a heavier oil is preferred. A quarter mile car can run thinner oil were a long distance road racing car might need a heavier oil. My only point about oil is not one is perfect for every condition/environment.

I would bet that when the first shop changed the cam for you they probably screwed up the oil pump o-ring were the pick up tube goes into the pump. This is very easy to do when changing the cam out while the engine is in the car. This can cause air to be sucked into the oil pump, causing cavitation and causing the oil to the bearings to be aerated. This aerated oil will not splash on the cam like it should and will let the cam run dry so to speak. The cam lobes are not pressure feed like bearings are.

I hate to tell you this but you are looking at an engine that is on the verge of catastrophic failure. First, were did all of that material from the bad lobe go? The larger particles might have been caught in your oil filter but the finer stuff went to the rod and main bearings, not to mention the oil pump sees all of the material. Second, if in fact the oil was/is aerated, the rod and main bearings are also not getting oiled properly, so I would expect severe damage from this as well.

You have a very serious problem on your hands that “special” oils/additives will not fix. Do yourself a favor and remove the engine from the car, remove the oil pan and front cover and inspect the rod and main bearings as well as the oil pump and pick up tube assembly. If you do this now you can limit the cost of your repairs. This I am afraid is the only way you will ever feel comfortable with your engine.

Keep us up to date.

Armageddon

iTrader: (41)

If I had a cam lobe disappear I'd also like to know what my bearings looked like. Did you have new cam bearings installed ?

I use Lucas Stabilizer. The stuff is like glue. It sticks nicely to things that need constant lubrication and doesn't clog oil filters. Buying a gallon of the stuff and using a quart in place of a quart of synthetic is close to the same cost either way when it's weighed out. So don't cry about being ripped off. I've built a lot of big power platforms and the Lucas has been in most of them.

A stock motor however... cam or not. With stock clearances the stabilizer is without question unnecessary. It's quite hard to destroy a roller cam compared to a flat tappet rig.

Did you replace your pushrods too? I didn't see that mentioned in your post.

A pinched pickup tube O-Ring hemorrhaging oil pressure could smoke a cam... if the guy you paid to do it wasn't familiar with the motor it's quite possible this happened.



I've seen "professional" builders make this mistake periodically.

Mike-Omologato-G.

The cam was part of a complete cam package. I used Patriot Gold duals, and comp 7.4 pushrods. A local shop put literally hundreds of these exact setups in other cars, so I only assume that the pushrods are correct. The thing about the cam lobe...I really never asked about the shreddings. We took the heads off as well for a valve job at the second cam install. Let me see if I can get a better pic of the cam.

Man, I don't have the $ right now for a "catastrophic engine failure". I sure hope it doesn't lead to that. I would be proper fooked - like the rabbit. Stay tuned for pic.

Mike-Omologato-G.

http://img706.imageshack.us/i/camcarnage4.jpg/

http://img140.imageshack.us/i/camcarnage3z.jpg/

http://img406.imageshack.us/i/camcarnage2.jpg/

imola740i

good god that thing is fucked. i would pull the motor and go thru it like tex said. merry freakin xmas.

Mike-Omologato-G.

That was the last cam. It has been out for half a year. Several oil changes as well, one quart of Lucas stabilizer. After this cam came out, all the lifters were replaced from stock to comp lifters. The cam, lifters replaced. All springs checked. Heads off, valve job. I hope all is well. It runs great, and besides the new loud tick tick tick, she sounded great for a few months after the new cam, etc. The only variable was the RP 5w30. I know it could have been progressing, and coincidentally I notice it louder after the RP oil change.

So, I really must:

0) check oil filter.
1) O-ring oil pick up tube checked out.
2) Switch oils out to GC 0w30 or M1 5w40.
3) Check lifter preload.
4) pull oil pan and inspect rod and bearings.

Feel free to add to the list. I am getting scared here FWIW.