My VA Speed Engine Build
03-23-2010, 10:00 PM
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My VA Speed Engine Build Been in the works for a couple months. Now that it's getting closer I wanted to make a post.
Background:
Currently have a 416 LS3 that Shawn built me over a year ago. I sent him the heads, cam, etc that I purchased to make a long block. He said the cam wasn't the best but I was "skeered" so I wanted to stay mild. I told him I'd never go FI on the car so it was built tight. Motor never burned oil and ran hard. Made 504/491 through a built/stalled/geared auto GTO. Made 670/763 on SNL's dyno in Haslet, Tx. The Performabuilt tranny held the power without a hiccup. Drove very nice and was a hoot to drive. Powered my 3600lb A4 to a 10.79. Trapped as high as 128mph. All motor. It's the second fastest trapping NA GTO next to a 454 that trapped 131 that I know of.
Fast forward:
I had Nitrous Outlet install a pretty sweet nitrous kit. It was a hard choice between a bigger motor and the kit because of the price of both. Shawn told me he wouldn't spray it but if I did no more than a 100 shot. I hit it with a 150 shot and the car gained over 170whp lol. I went back and forth for awhile on whether to go bigger motor or keep the spray. Well I decided since I bit the bullet and got spray it was time to have it properly built for spray. So now it looks like I'm going to get both.
In the works:
I pulled the motor and found that the stock flex plate had 3 small cracks. My buddy and I built a crate for it and shipped the motor back to Shawn. He tore down the entire motor and inspected. The timing chain was in about 30 different pieces. It was an IWIS/JWIS chain I got from Vengeance Racing. Not sure what happend with the chain. I broke a stock LS2 timing chain as well that caused me to go stroker in the first place. I'm beginning to suspect that me locking the converter at WOT is causing this. So I've decided not to lock the converter anymore. Shawn said otherwise the motor was in good shape though the rings weren't liking the nitrous too much. I will stress the motor was still running when it was pulled. Somehow the chain was falling apart but was still holding together.
Shawn is Darton sleeving my LS3 block to a 427ci. He's spec'd a bigger yet still mild cam that should be docile in my auto GTO. He's going to engine dyno the engine as well as some porting on the heads, port matching etc.
The block is reusing all my previous rotating assembly. Except this time we're going with some pistons better suited for nitrous. To let it breathe better I've upgraded the exhaust to Kooks 1 7/8 and 3" catback.
I live at the track. So you can bet there will be chassis dyno numbers and track numbers shortly after the engine ships. I'm working on making sure the power gets to the ground while waiting on the motor. To my knowledge the fastest NA GTO time in the US is 10.40@131 by a former 454ci GTO. Hopefully I can knock on the door of that. It will be tough. Street manners is very important to me as well. I don't like cars that surge and buck and just overall a pain to drive. I like smooth and powerful and reliable.
Goal is a 9 second timeslip driven to the track with full interior and then driven home.
I'll let Shawn go into more detail as he progresses. I'm excited
Background:
Currently have a 416 LS3 that Shawn built me over a year ago. I sent him the heads, cam, etc that I purchased to make a long block. He said the cam wasn't the best but I was "skeered" so I wanted to stay mild. I told him I'd never go FI on the car so it was built tight. Motor never burned oil and ran hard. Made 504/491 through a built/stalled/geared auto GTO. Made 670/763 on SNL's dyno in Haslet, Tx. The Performabuilt tranny held the power without a hiccup. Drove very nice and was a hoot to drive. Powered my 3600lb A4 to a 10.79. Trapped as high as 128mph. All motor. It's the second fastest trapping NA GTO next to a 454 that trapped 131 that I know of.
Fast forward:
I had Nitrous Outlet install a pretty sweet nitrous kit. It was a hard choice between a bigger motor and the kit because of the price of both. Shawn told me he wouldn't spray it but if I did no more than a 100 shot. I hit it with a 150 shot and the car gained over 170whp lol. I went back and forth for awhile on whether to go bigger motor or keep the spray. Well I decided since I bit the bullet and got spray it was time to have it properly built for spray. So now it looks like I'm going to get both.
In the works:
I pulled the motor and found that the stock flex plate had 3 small cracks. My buddy and I built a crate for it and shipped the motor back to Shawn. He tore down the entire motor and inspected. The timing chain was in about 30 different pieces. It was an IWIS/JWIS chain I got from Vengeance Racing. Not sure what happend with the chain. I broke a stock LS2 timing chain as well that caused me to go stroker in the first place. I'm beginning to suspect that me locking the converter at WOT is causing this. So I've decided not to lock the converter anymore. Shawn said otherwise the motor was in good shape though the rings weren't liking the nitrous too much. I will stress the motor was still running when it was pulled. Somehow the chain was falling apart but was still holding together.
Shawn is Darton sleeving my LS3 block to a 427ci. He's spec'd a bigger yet still mild cam that should be docile in my auto GTO. He's going to engine dyno the engine as well as some porting on the heads, port matching etc.
The block is reusing all my previous rotating assembly. Except this time we're going with some pistons better suited for nitrous. To let it breathe better I've upgraded the exhaust to Kooks 1 7/8 and 3" catback.
I live at the track. So you can bet there will be chassis dyno numbers and track numbers shortly after the engine ships. I'm working on making sure the power gets to the ground while waiting on the motor. To my knowledge the fastest NA GTO time in the US is 10.40@131 by a former 454ci GTO. Hopefully I can knock on the door of that. It will be tough. Street manners is very important to me as well. I don't like cars that surge and buck and just overall a pain to drive. I like smooth and powerful and reliable.
Goal is a 9 second timeslip driven to the track with full interior and then driven home.
I'll let Shawn go into more detail as he progresses. I'm excited
Last edited by 6.0monsta; 03-25-2010 at 06:42 PM.
03-24-2010, 08:23 AM
#3
Been in the works for a couple months. Now that it's getting closer I wanted to make a post.
Background:
Currently have a 416 LS3 that Shawn built me over a year ago. I sent him the heads, cam, etc that I purchased to make a long block. He said the cam wasn't the best but I was "skeered" so I wanted to stay mild. I told him I'd never go FI on the car so it was built tight. Motor never burned oil and ran hard. Made 504/491 through a built/stalled/geared auto GTO. Made 670/763 on SNL's dyno in Haslet, Tx. The Performabuilt tranny held the power without a hiccup. Drove very nice and was a hoot to drive. Powered my 3600lb A4 to a 10.79. Trapped as high as 128mph. All motor. It's the second fastest trapping NA GTO next to a 454 that trapped 131 that I know of.
Fast forward:
I had Nitrous Outlet install a pretty sweet nitrous kit. It was a hard choice between a bigger motor and the kit because of the price of both. Shawn told me he wouldn't spray it but if I did no more than a 100 shot. I hit it with a 150 shot and the car gained over 170whp lol. I went back and forth for awhile on whether to go bigger motor or keep the spray. Well I decided since I bit the bullet and got spray it was time to have it properly built for spray. So now it looks like I'm going to get both.
In the works:
I pulled the motor and found that the stock flex plate had 3 small cracks. My buddy and I built a crate for it and shipped the motor back to Shawn. He tore down the entire motor and inspected. The timing chain was in about 30 different pieces. It was an IWIS/JWIS chain I got from Vengeance Racing. Not sure what happend with the chain. I broke a stock LS2 timing chain as well that caused me to go stroker in the first place. I'm beginning to suspect that me locking the converter at WOT is causing this. So I've decided not to lock the converter anymore. Shawn said otherwise the motor was in good shape though the rings weren't liking the nitrous too much. I will stress the motor was still running when it was pulled. Somehow the chain was falling apart but was still holding together.
Shawn is Darton sleeving my LS3 block to a 427ci. He's spec'd a bigger yet still mild cam that should be docile in my auto GTO. He's going to engine dyno the engine as well as some porting on the heads, port matching etc.
The block is reusing all my previous rotating assembly. Except this time we're going with some pistons better suited for nitrous. To let it breathe better I've upgraded the exhaust to Kooks 1 7/8 and 3" catback.
I live at the track. So you can bet there will be chassis dyno numbers and track numbers shortly after the engine ships. I'm working on making sure the power gets to the ground while waiting on the motor. To my knowledge the fastest NA GTO time in the US is 10.40@131 by a former 454ci GTO. Hopefully I can knock on the door of that. It will be tough. Street manners is very important to me as well. I don't like cars that surge and buck and just overall a pain to drive. I like smooth and powerful and reliable.
Goal is a 9 second timeslip driven to the track with full interior and then driven home.
I'll let Shawn go into more detail as he progresses. I'm excited
Background:
Currently have a 416 LS3 that Shawn built me over a year ago. I sent him the heads, cam, etc that I purchased to make a long block. He said the cam wasn't the best but I was "skeered" so I wanted to stay mild. I told him I'd never go FI on the car so it was built tight. Motor never burned oil and ran hard. Made 504/491 through a built/stalled/geared auto GTO. Made 670/763 on SNL's dyno in Haslet, Tx. The Performabuilt tranny held the power without a hiccup. Drove very nice and was a hoot to drive. Powered my 3600lb A4 to a 10.79. Trapped as high as 128mph. All motor. It's the second fastest trapping NA GTO next to a 454 that trapped 131 that I know of.
Fast forward:
I had Nitrous Outlet install a pretty sweet nitrous kit. It was a hard choice between a bigger motor and the kit because of the price of both. Shawn told me he wouldn't spray it but if I did no more than a 100 shot. I hit it with a 150 shot and the car gained over 170whp lol. I went back and forth for awhile on whether to go bigger motor or keep the spray. Well I decided since I bit the bullet and got spray it was time to have it properly built for spray. So now it looks like I'm going to get both.
In the works:
I pulled the motor and found that the stock flex plate had 3 small cracks. My buddy and I built a crate for it and shipped the motor back to Shawn. He tore down the entire motor and inspected. The timing chain was in about 30 different pieces. It was an IWIS/JWIS chain I got from Vengeance Racing. Not sure what happend with the chain. I broke a stock LS2 timing chain as well that caused me to go stroker in the first place. I'm beginning to suspect that me locking the converter at WOT is causing this. So I've decided not to lock the converter anymore. Shawn said otherwise the motor was in good shape though the rings weren't liking the nitrous too much. I will stress the motor was still running when it was pulled. Somehow the chain was falling apart but was still holding together.
Shawn is Darton sleeving my LS3 block to a 427ci. He's spec'd a bigger yet still mild cam that should be docile in my auto GTO. He's going to engine dyno the engine as well as some porting on the heads, port matching etc.
The block is reusing all my previous rotating assembly. Except this time we're going with some pistons better suited for nitrous. To let it breathe better I've upgraded the exhaust to Kooks 1 7/8 and 3" catback.
I live at the track. So you can bet there will be chassis dyno numbers and track numbers shortly after the engine ships. I'm working on making sure the power gets to the ground while waiting on the motor. To my knowledge the fastest NA GTO time in the US is 10.40@131 by a former 454ci GTO. Hopefully I can knock on the door of that. It will be tough. Street manners is very important to me as well. I don't like cars that surge and buck and just overall a pain to drive. I like smooth and powerful and reliable.
Goal is a 9 second timeslip driven to the track with full interior and then driven home.
I'll let Shawn go into more detail as he progresses. I'm excited
03-24-2010, 09:13 AM
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What intake were you running? The old motor ran good, the new one should really run strong. What size injectors did you run and did you spray a wet shot or dry.
03-24-2010, 09:31 AM
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For sure.
SNL ported Fast92 with a SNL ported LS2 throttlebody. Fast 46lb injectors. Wet shot, stand alone. Currently runnining a vararam intake. Shawn says he figured out how to fit a 100mm maf between the vararam and the nitrous plate/tb. Curious to see how he did that and if it will affect atomizing the nitrous.
Last edited by 6.0monsta; 03-25-2010 at 06:42 PM.
03-24-2010, 11:21 AM
#6
I have been very impressed with their sleeved 427 builds. Good luck with your new setup. Is there any advantage to the LS3 block over the LS2 block?
Question on the timing chain, do you know if it was a true C5R chain or one of the cheaper JWIS chains that were being sold for around $40?
Question on the timing chain, do you know if it was a true C5R chain or one of the cheaper JWIS chains that were being sold for around $40?
03-24-2010, 11:24 AM
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I have been very impressed with their sleeved 427 builds. Good luck with your new setup. Is there any advantage to the LS3 block over the LS2 block?
Question on the timing chain, do you know if it was a true C5R chain or one of the cheaper JWIS chains that were being sold for around $40?
Question on the timing chain, do you know if it was a true C5R chain or one of the cheaper JWIS chains that were being sold for around $40?
The chain was supposed to be a nice one. It was around $75 for it I believe. Don't really remember the price. I was just surprised to have another chain breakdown.
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03-24-2010, 11:47 AM
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If you are breaking timing chains you are loading the engine at low rpm with something that does not work together on the engine. You should have the timing chain damper that installs between the two gears from GM and the ATI engine damper with 3 rings and the proper durometer rings for your application.
Kurt
Kurt
03-24-2010, 12:15 PM
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The stock timing chain broke when I was cam only at 436whp. The stall I have doesn't really let me load the motor at a low rpm. I still think it's related to locking the converter at wot but I could be wrong. The stocker broke THE NIGHT my built tranny was installed on the first wot pull.
03-24-2010, 12:17 PM
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03-24-2010, 01:06 PM
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The timing chain failures are not connected to HP, they are a product of a bad harmonic in the engine if you run full load under 4500rpm. Did not matter what chain I used although the better ones lasted longer before failure. Locking your converter at wot may drop you into the zone.
The car I was working with was the Motorola Cup Corvettes in a road race application, they were just under 500hp NA engines with a 7200rpm rev limit. They would run without failure for many races with all parts looking happy on inspection. The problem showed up when they would lose a gear in the trans during the race (normally 3rd) and they would start skip shifting in order to finish the race. The engine would fall back to 3500rpm or so then drive into the bad harmonic zone (3800-4500rpm) causing the links in the chain to bind with failure happening within one hour of race time no matter what chain I tried. We found the problem by putting two trigger wheels on the engine, one under the front cover. This testing along with help from ATI helped us cure the problem. The repair is to run the right engine damper from ATI, it will have a 3 ring weight with a "44" stamped in the steel inertia ring. This damper is not to be used on the LS series of engine if your engine rpm regularly exceeds 8000rpm, for those engines the regular 2 ring or 3 ring damper is best. We did test all the popular dampers then (2001) and the ATI was best followed by the stock one if your rpm was under 7000. I use the "44" damper on my truck which now has 105,000 boosted miles with a 5200rpm shift point and locked converter in 3rd gear. I used the 40 dollar LS2 chain in that engine.
Kurt
The car I was working with was the Motorola Cup Corvettes in a road race application, they were just under 500hp NA engines with a 7200rpm rev limit. They would run without failure for many races with all parts looking happy on inspection. The problem showed up when they would lose a gear in the trans during the race (normally 3rd) and they would start skip shifting in order to finish the race. The engine would fall back to 3500rpm or so then drive into the bad harmonic zone (3800-4500rpm) causing the links in the chain to bind with failure happening within one hour of race time no matter what chain I tried. We found the problem by putting two trigger wheels on the engine, one under the front cover. This testing along with help from ATI helped us cure the problem. The repair is to run the right engine damper from ATI, it will have a 3 ring weight with a "44" stamped in the steel inertia ring. This damper is not to be used on the LS series of engine if your engine rpm regularly exceeds 8000rpm, for those engines the regular 2 ring or 3 ring damper is best. We did test all the popular dampers then (2001) and the ATI was best followed by the stock one if your rpm was under 7000. I use the "44" damper on my truck which now has 105,000 boosted miles with a 5200rpm shift point and locked converter in 3rd gear. I used the 40 dollar LS2 chain in that engine.
Kurt
The stock timing chain broke when I was cam only at 436whp. The stall I have doesn't really let me load the motor at a low rpm. I still think it's related to locking the converter at wot but I could be wrong. The stocker broke THE NIGHT my built tranny was installed on the first wot pull.
03-25-2010, 08:59 AM
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The timing chain failures are not connected to HP, they are a product of a bad harmonic in the engine if you run full load under 4500rpm. Did not matter what chain I used although the better ones lasted longer before failure. Locking your converter at wot may drop you into the zone.
The car I was working with was the Motorola Cup Corvettes in a road race application, they were just under 500hp NA engines with a 7200rpm rev limit. They would run without failure for many races with all parts looking happy on inspection. The problem showed up when they would lose a gear in the trans during the race (normally 3rd) and they would start skip shifting in order to finish the race. The engine would fall back to 3500rpm or so then drive into the bad harmonic zone (3800-4500rpm) causing the links in the chain to bind with failure happening within one hour of race time no matter what chain I tried. We found the problem by putting two trigger wheels on the engine, one under the front cover. This testing along with help from ATI helped us cure the problem. The repair is to run the right engine damper from ATI, it will have a 3 ring weight with a "44" stamped in the steel inertia ring. This damper is not to be used on the LS series of engine if your engine rpm regularly exceeds 8000rpm, for those engines the regular 2 ring or 3 ring damper is best. We did test all the popular dampers then (2001) and the ATI was best followed by the stock one if your rpm was under 7000. I use the "44" damper on my truck which now has 105,000 boosted miles with a 5200rpm shift point and locked converter in 3rd gear. I used the 40 dollar LS2 chain in that engine.
Kurt
The car I was working with was the Motorola Cup Corvettes in a road race application, they were just under 500hp NA engines with a 7200rpm rev limit. They would run without failure for many races with all parts looking happy on inspection. The problem showed up when they would lose a gear in the trans during the race (normally 3rd) and they would start skip shifting in order to finish the race. The engine would fall back to 3500rpm or so then drive into the bad harmonic zone (3800-4500rpm) causing the links in the chain to bind with failure happening within one hour of race time no matter what chain I tried. We found the problem by putting two trigger wheels on the engine, one under the front cover. This testing along with help from ATI helped us cure the problem. The repair is to run the right engine damper from ATI, it will have a 3 ring weight with a "44" stamped in the steel inertia ring. This damper is not to be used on the LS series of engine if your engine rpm regularly exceeds 8000rpm, for those engines the regular 2 ring or 3 ring damper is best. We did test all the popular dampers then (2001) and the ATI was best followed by the stock one if your rpm was under 7000. I use the "44" damper on my truck which now has 105,000 boosted miles with a 5200rpm shift point and locked converter in 3rd gear. I used the 40 dollar LS2 chain in that engine.
Kurt
03-25-2010, 09:33 AM
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As someone who was plagued with a TC break on a cam'ed LS3(the chain broke at a shocking ~4000rpm, not unlike the bad harmonic zone you observed), thank you for this post. Everything about the install checked out from pushrod length, to valvespring pressures, to cam walk, etc. I checked everything and there was no "reason" for my TC to break other than the fact that the car had an aftermarket ASP underdrive pulley.
Good info but I don't want the thread to focus on timing chains. Shawn is installing a much better chain and he hasn't mentioned any concerns regarding my ASP pulley. I did notice it seemed to "wobble" while the engine was running before I pulled the motor out. I'll be curious if it does the same thing on the engine dyno.
