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Generation IV Internal Engine
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427ci LS2 Sleeved, 4 barrel TB, port FI, NA, dry sump, engine build.

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Old 04-30-2012, 10:26 PM   #1
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Default 427ci LS2 Sleeved, 4 barrel TB, port FI, NA, dry sump, engine build.

I am in the process of building a new engine for my Camaro. I want to build an engine that will run on the street for cruising, hold up for 25 min runs on road courses (track day events), and take the abuse of occasional ¼ mile drag racing with my friends. In the past I have always run gen 1 small blocks, but this time I want to do an LS engine. This will be a fresh start and I want to explore the potential of the gen IV engines I’ve read so much about. My goal is to build an engine that runs strong off the bottom, builds power up to 7,000 RPM, puts out 650HP at the crank, runs on 92 octane pump gas, and takes some abuse!

Here is what I have so far:

LS2 sleeved block, 427 CID, 4.125” bore x 4.0” stroke
Manley forged crank and Manley H-beam rods
Weisco forged pistons, compression ratio ~11.5:1
LS7 CNC ported heads with titanium intake valves
T&D shaft rocker system
247/255 @ 0.050 Cam, 112 LSA
NRC dry sump oil system with 4 stage oil pump
Kooks 1-7/8” headers, 3” exhaust into 3” X-pipe reduced to 2-1/2” tail pipes
Katech Aluminum flywheel with modified ZR1 Corvette twin disc clutch (20% more clamp force)
Vaporworx fuel system with standalone digital controller, and GM CTS-V fuel pump (380lph capacity)
GM ECM and GM card style MAF sensor
Custom wiring harness
FAST 4150 throttle body
Custom built cold air intake

At this point I have gathered all of the parts listed above and the engine is in the final assembly stage. My goal is to have the engine tested and tuned on the engine dyno within the next two weeks, and then installed in my car by mid June. I plan to post updates, and pictures as I go along. Questions or comments on this build are always welcome. I have always picked up good information here, now I thought it would be a good time to share my project. This is the first forum I have posted on so bear with me.

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69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #2
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I did something very similar, and it should be a great engine! Your cam choice looks interesting. You went higher on the duration, lower on the lift than I did.

What year Camaro? How did you hear about Vaporworx? Do you know Carl? He's running One Lap as we speak...
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:01 PM   #3
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Nice job! What accessory drive brackets are those? Im looking for something like that. Simple and sweet. I've ran the KRC stuff previously, without any problems. I know Ken personally. Great guy.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash911 View Post
I did something very similar, and it should be a great engine! Your cam choice looks interesting. You went higher on the duration, lower on the lift than I did.

What year Camaro? How did you hear about Vaporworx? Do you know Carl? He's running One Lap as we speak...
Glad to hear you had good results with a similar setup! I found out about the Ricks tanks and the vaporworx setup when I went to the SEMA show a couple of years ago. I called Carl last year and he was great to work with. I ended up getting the CTS-V fuel pump with 380lph output. Carl recommended this pump when you get over 600HP. Nice setup. We will be testing the vaporworx digital controller and CTS-V fuel pump when we run the engine on the dyno.

The engine builder selected the cam for this build. Can't wait to see how it runs.

The engine will be going in my 1969 Camaro.

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69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post
Nice job! What accessory drive brackets are those? Im looking for something like that. Simple and sweet. I've ran the KRC stuff previously, without any problems. I know Ken personally. Great guy.
Scott, I'm glad to hear that you've had good results with the KRC power steering pumps. I have always had problems with my stock power steering pump boiling over when I do the track days events. I'm hoping this solves the problem.

The alternator bracket and power steering pump bracket were made by nutter racing engines. They manufacture lots of parts for LS engines. I purchased the accessory brackets and the dry sump 4 stage pump kit from them. Good stuff. email: ac@nutterracingengines.com
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69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:21 AM   #6
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I am hoping that with the right cam; tune, and air intake setup I can get good results with the single plane 4-barrel TB setup. I know I’m going to give up some mid-range power but should gain HP on the top end. I have some extra room under the hood so I thought I would explore the potential of this set up just to try something different.

I have built a couple of different cold air intakes to duct air into the 4-barrel throttle body for testing on the dyno. One setup is an extreme velocity pro series elbow into 4” O.D. tubing with a GM card style MAF sensor; then 5” O.D. tubing connected to a cone style air filter. The second setup is a complete custom air intake made with some purchased parts and some homemade parts; then 4” O.D. tubing with a GM card style MAF sensor; then 5” O.D. tubing connected to a cone style air filter. The second setup will have a lower profile than the first.

The goal is to achieve smooth air flow over the MAF sensor and smooth air flow into the 4-barrel TB. Also, I have the option to do a cowel induction air intake set-up with this engine but this would not allow use of the MAF sensor. This setup would require a speed density tune. I would rather see if we can make the MAF tune work. Lots of options, we’ll see.

If anyone has experience with this type of setup, or any comments or ideas about this build I’m open for discussion, thanks.

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69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:25 AM   #7
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Great build, cant wait to see the finished results
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Great build, cant wait to see the finished results
Thanks.... As soon as the wiring harness comes in the engine will be on the dyno, and I will post up the results.

I expect the harness to be in any day now....
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69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:19 PM   #9
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On this build I decided to go with a 4.125" bore x 4.0" stroke sleeved LS2 block. Below is a shot of the underside of the block with the sleeves installed, and a shot with the pistons installed.

The 4.125" bore allowed the use of the LS7 heads. Originally I was going to use hand ported L92 heads with stainless valves..... but ended up doing the LS7 heads (that snowball thing!). When I went to the LS7 head I opted for the titanium valves since this is what they were originally designed to run.

Also... we are running bee-hive springs. comments? good results, bad results?

I am really curious to find out how the LS7 cnc ported heads run. The engine builder did a similar engine (427ci LS3 hand ported heads with an LS intake and similar cam) and made 630HP, can't remember the torque number.



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"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
Mario Andretti

69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #10
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I can't tell what your last CAI picture is of, but it reminds me of an idea I'd really like to see; filterless 14" snorkel style air cleaner with the snorkel ingegrating a card MAF and connecting to a 4" duct out to a hidden cone filter under the fender. It would have a completely retro look to it while incorporating EFI. Internally I would use an elbow like your carb hat elbow so there isn't a tone of volume added inside the 14" diameter. May not really fit with your build, but I just like the idea.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #11
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Thanks for the link. Email is sent.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleTx View Post
Glad to hear you had good results with a similar setup! I found out about the Ricks tanks and the vaporworx setup when I went to the SEMA show a couple of years ago. I called Carl last year and he was great to work with. I ended up getting the CTS-V fuel pump with 380lph output. Carl recommended this pump when you get over 600HP. Nice setup. We will be testing the vaporworx digital controller and CTS-V fuel pump when we run the engine on the dyno.

The engine builder selected the cam for this build. Can't wait to see how it runs.

The engine will be going in my 1969 Camaro.

Click the image to open in full size.
Nice car! I went w the CTS-V set up and digital controller as well. Not cheap, but you will have no fuel starvation issues at all.

Here's my motor:
New LS7 Build

And my 69:
Click the image to open in full size.

You should head over to Lateral-G.net and Pro-touring.com! You'll be right at home there
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #13
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Here's a graph of my "paper tiger" engine as I am planning it out. So far, it's a 4.07 x 4.10 L-92 motor with Patriot 2.08" valve cathedral port heads, a Victor, JR intake with 40# injectors and a 1200 CFM throttle body. Cam is a small off-the-shelf Comp solid roller with 235°/240° and 0.646"/0.641" on a 113°. Mine intentionally peaks at 6,000, so it would appear that there is more to be had in your combo, at least on paper...
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427ci LS2 Sleeved, 4 barrel TB, port FI, NA, dry sump, engine build.-image-001.jpg  
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -TheBandit- View Post
I can't tell what your last CAI picture is of, but it reminds me of an idea I'd really like to see; filterless 14" snorkel style air cleaner with the snorkel ingegrating a card MAF and connecting to a 4" duct out to a hidden cone filter under the fender. It would have a completely retro look to it while incorporating EFI. Internally I would use an elbow like your carb hat elbow so there isn't a tone of volume added inside the 14" diameter. May not really fit with your build, but I just like the idea.
Yes, we are on the same line of thinking....a filterless 14" snorkel style air cleaner with the snorkel integrating a card MAF and connecting to a 4" duct out to a hidden cone filter under the fender. However.... rather than put a hidden elbow inside the chamber I have built a part that fits inside the chamber and reduces the volume. The part has similar features to a velocity stack. see photos below.

I plan to test the extreme velocity pro series elbow and the air cleaner style set up when we test the engine on the dyno. I will plumb a vacuum gauge into the 4" O.D. tubing to compare the two set ups at various RPM's. I'm not sold on the elbow set up yet. Not sure how well a 90 degree elbow works on a NA set up (with no head of pressure like on a boost set up). I want to minimize restriction of air flow and turbulence as much as possible. Anyway it will be worth a try to see how each set up works with the MAF tune.

This picture should show the inside of the chamber better.


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Mario Andretti

69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
Build Thread-http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ine-build.html

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Old 05-03-2012, 12:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash911 View Post
Nice car! I went w the CTS-V set up and digital controller as well. Not cheap, but you will have no fuel starvation issues at all.

Here's my motor:
New LS7 Build

And my 69:
Click the image to open in full size.

You should head over to Lateral-G.net and Pro-touring.com! You'll be right at home there
Thanks.... You're car looks great! very nice. I'll keep an eye out for your thread to see how you come out on the LS7. Good luck with your build.
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"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
Mario Andretti

69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10xGN View Post
Here's a graph of my "paper tiger" engine as I am planning it out. So far, it's a 4.07 x 4.10 L-92 motor with Patriot 2.08" valve cathedral port heads, a Victor, JR intake with 40# injectors and a 1200 CFM throttle body. Cam is a small off-the-shelf Comp solid roller with 235°/240° and 0.646"/0.641" on a 113°. Mine intentionally peaks at 6,000, so it would appear that there is more to be had in your combo, at least on paper...
Nice combination. Good luck with your build! Thanks for posting the graph for comparison. The single planes do make good power throughout the range when set up right.
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"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
Mario Andretti

69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:37 AM   #17
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The engine was installed and run on the dyno today...

Results of day one tuning:
Peak Torque: 571 @ 5,400 RPM
Peak Hp: 670 @ 7,000 RPM

The horsepower curve was very smooth... we ran up to 7,300 RPM and the power was just starting to taper off. Torque was at 508 lb-ft at 3,500 rpm.

Very happy with the results so far. The engine was run with a speed density tune and pump gas (92 octane). We tested the CTS-V fuel pump and vaporworx digital controller at the same time. The pump maintained a solid 58 psi through out the run.

The CNC ported LS7 heads are very good. I will post up graphs and video over the next couple of days.

Cheers!


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"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
Mario Andretti

69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
Build Thread-http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ine-build.html

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Old 05-04-2012, 04:36 AM   #18
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Curious as to how it would go with a set of 2 inch headers?
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleTx View Post
The engine was installed and run on the dyno today...

Results of day one tuning:
Peak Torque: 571 @ 5,400 RPM
Peak Hp: 670 @ 7,000 RPM

The horsepower curve was very smooth... we ran up to 7,300 RPM and the power was just starting to taper off. Torque was at 508 lb-ft at 3,500 rpm.

Very happy with the results so far. The engine was run with a speed density tune and pump gas (92 octane). We tested the CTS-V fuel pump and vaporworx digital controller at the same time. The pump maintained a solid 58 psi through out the run.

The CNC ported LS7 heads are very good. I will post up graphs and video over the next couple of days.

Cheers!


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The headers used for the dyno run are 1-3/4" stepped to 1-7/8". I will be running a set of 1-7/8" Kooks headers with LS7 flange in the car.

I will inquire to see if we can run the 1-7/8" Kooks while the engine is on the dyno. My headers may be to narrow to fit though.
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69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines- 427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM
Build Thread-http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ine-build.html

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Old 05-04-2012, 10:26 AM   #20
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Congrats on those numbers! Wow! You will pick up a little with 1 7/8 headers. That thing wants to breathe. Nice job!
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