Cam Swap massacre
10-31-2014, 09:36 AM
#1
Cam Swap massacre Hey guys! So here's the story on what happened yesterday and hopefully i can get some advice on what to do.
1. My SNS cam arrived , and I was planning to change the cam. I used the 5/16 rod bolt method to hold the lifter up. I managed to take off the stock cam but when I tried to put the new cam, it won't go all the way in. I look at the hole and apparently, the lifters fell and the rod bolt didn't hold it. So after trying to fix it, I ran out of luck and decided to take the whole head off. When taking the whole head off, the freaking lifters fell of to the pistons and crank, so It takes me forever to get all the lifters out of the block. I finally got the cam in, installed the lifters and put the tray in. Guess what, one of the bolts that hold the tray won't tighten. I figure i strip the plastic tray. Can i tightened it with a spacer? or do I need to get a new tray? I definitely don't want to just tighten it without the required torque specs.
2.When installing my cam retainer plate and timing gear, I managed to fd up and tighten it to 36lbs instead of 18lbs of torque on the timing chain bolt. So, of course, one of the bolts break and it stuck on the cam! How do i removed it without having to remove the whole cam? drill? and chisel?
3. Any other advice before i proceed? I looked up 'LS engine rebuild' on youtube and he give a pretty good details on the whole thing.
4. What size socket do I need to turn the engine by hand? Do i need to install the bolt than turn it?
HELP!
1. My SNS cam arrived , and I was planning to change the cam. I used the 5/16 rod bolt method to hold the lifter up. I managed to take off the stock cam but when I tried to put the new cam, it won't go all the way in. I look at the hole and apparently, the lifters fell and the rod bolt didn't hold it. So after trying to fix it, I ran out of luck and decided to take the whole head off. When taking the whole head off, the freaking lifters fell of to the pistons and crank, so It takes me forever to get all the lifters out of the block. I finally got the cam in, installed the lifters and put the tray in. Guess what, one of the bolts that hold the tray won't tighten. I figure i strip the plastic tray. Can i tightened it with a spacer? or do I need to get a new tray? I definitely don't want to just tighten it without the required torque specs.
2.When installing my cam retainer plate and timing gear, I managed to fd up and tighten it to 36lbs instead of 18lbs of torque on the timing chain bolt. So, of course, one of the bolts break and it stuck on the cam! How do i removed it without having to remove the whole cam? drill? and chisel?
3. Any other advice before i proceed? I looked up 'LS engine rebuild' on youtube and he give a pretty good details on the whole thing.
4. What size socket do I need to turn the engine by hand? Do i need to install the bolt than turn it?
HELP!
10-31-2014, 10:11 AM
#2
sounds like you need to slow down and take a breather when you go too fast you make more and more mistakes. i wouldnt be drilling the cam. maybe to get an easy out in it but other than that i would pull the cam and take it to a machine shop. i also dont see how the lifter tray wont tighten. if not then it sounds like the block is stripped, although that barely ever happens. if so though a helicoil and timesert could fix that, if you are still at the point though it should be easy to just pull the lifters back out and then pull the cam
10-31-2014, 02:05 PM
#3
sounds like you need to slow down and take a breather when you go too fast you make more and more mistakes. i wouldnt be drilling the cam. maybe to get an easy out in it but other than that i would pull the cam and take it to a machine shop. i also dont see how the lifter tray wont tighten. if not then it sounds like the block is stripped, although that barely ever happens. if so though a helicoil and timesert could fix that, if you are still at the point though it should be easy to just pull the lifters back out and then pull the cam
Im pretty sure the block is not strip. I tried to screw the hole without the tray and it tighten just fine.
10-31-2014, 02:26 PM
#4
uggghhh no the cam is rotating at half the engine speed of the crank the last thing you want is for that to come loose or even be torqued unevenly. i would sooner junk the cam and get a new one before i would use 2 bolts. but you shouldnt have to do that if you take the cam to a machine shop.
i recommend using arp hardware on the cam parts. for the cam and retainer bolts its about 30 bucks. i snapped a cam bolt in mine and had to get it out. those bolts are so small and fragile that arp just is good peace of mind
i recommend using arp hardware on the cam parts. for the cam and retainer bolts its about 30 bucks. i snapped a cam bolt in mine and had to get it out. those bolts are so small and fragile that arp just is good peace of mind
11-01-2014, 02:03 AM
#6
Staging Lane
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Not at all!
No offence but you seem incompetent and something like this needs to be right and there is no room for error once you fire the car.
11-01-2014, 07:23 AM
#7
In my opinion, ARP bolts (good stuff) are overkill on some things like a cam swap.
I'm not saying the broken bolt can't be removed but you have to think about the situation. A cam core is hardened steel... The cam bolts are hardened steel... The cam is round, smooth and built to a very tight tolerance. The bolt is probably broken flush with the cam face. This isn't a good combination when it comes to extracting broken bolts.
I've used a method with a TIG welder to remove broken bolts and studs but it takes patience, skill and a steady hand. I've also never tried it on something like a cam but the process would be the same. In theory a similar method could be employed, but it involves removing the cam.
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11-01-2014, 08:34 AM
#8
But yeah point taken and off to machine shop to get it fixed .
11-01-2014, 08:54 PM
#10
Teching In
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OP..........it's not too difficult, but you have to be patient. Don't rush your build.
Do not try to remove the bolt with the cam in the engine. Remove it! Use a drill bit (that is smaller than the broken bolt) to drill into the broken bolt. Take a bolt-remover bit (that fits the hole) and a high speed drill and center it in the pre-drilled hole. Insure the drill is set to REVERSE and then spin the broken bolt out. You can wrap the cam main bearing in paper and place it in a vise - LIGHTY - to keep it from spinning or have a helper hold it. Protect the cam surfaces, at all costs, or you will end up with a costly paper weight.
It's not rocket science............LOL! Where are you located?
Do not try to remove the bolt with the cam in the engine. Remove it! Use a drill bit (that is smaller than the broken bolt) to drill into the broken bolt. Take a bolt-remover bit (that fits the hole) and a high speed drill and center it in the pre-drilled hole. Insure the drill is set to REVERSE and then spin the broken bolt out. You can wrap the cam main bearing in paper and place it in a vise - LIGHTY - to keep it from spinning or have a helper hold it. Protect the cam surfaces, at all costs, or you will end up with a costly paper weight.
It's not rocket science............LOL! Where are you located?
11-01-2014, 09:42 PM
#11
[QUOTE=Speedforhire;18505882]OP..........it's not too difficult, but you have to be patient. Don't rush your build.
Do not try to remove the bolt with the cam in the engine. Remove it! Use a drill bit (that is smaller than the broken bolt) to drill into the broken bolt. Take a bolt-remover bit (that fits the hole) and a high speed drill and center it in the pre-drilled hole. Insure the drill is set to REVERSE and then spin the broken bolt out. You can wrap the cam main bearing in paper and place it in a vise - LIGHTY - to keep it from spinning or have a helper hold it. Protect the cam surfaces, at all costs, or you will end up with a costly paper weight.
It's not rocket science............LOL! Where are you located?[/QUOT
I saw that method on the YouTube video but not confident enough to do it myself since I'm afraid I'll destroy the cam.
Where can I get the bolt removal bit?sears? I Beleive the bolt size is 10 mm.
And I'm in ga.
Do not try to remove the bolt with the cam in the engine. Remove it! Use a drill bit (that is smaller than the broken bolt) to drill into the broken bolt. Take a bolt-remover bit (that fits the hole) and a high speed drill and center it in the pre-drilled hole. Insure the drill is set to REVERSE and then spin the broken bolt out. You can wrap the cam main bearing in paper and place it in a vise - LIGHTY - to keep it from spinning or have a helper hold it. Protect the cam surfaces, at all costs, or you will end up with a costly paper weight.
It's not rocket science............LOL! Where are you located?[/QUOT
I saw that method on the YouTube video but not confident enough to do it myself since I'm afraid I'll destroy the cam.
Where can I get the bolt removal bit?sears? I Beleive the bolt size is 10 mm.
And I'm in ga.
11-01-2014, 10:01 PM
#12
Moderator
I suspect the snapped bolt is no longer under tension and should come out easily.
As mentioned, remove the cam and remove the timing gear.
Speedforhire's advice is good, but even better is to go to the hardware store and get several small "reverse" bits which drill in a counter-clockwise direction. Many times just starting to drill the hole (for the remover) actually removes the bolt.
Google "bolt torque chart" find one you like, print it and paste it to your tool chest. This will help you learn the "typical" torque for each size bolt. If you then see a torque value much higher than in the chart, you will learn to triple check it and consider that the instructions might even have an error.
As mentioned, remove the cam and remove the timing gear.
Speedforhire's advice is good, but even better is to go to the hardware store and get several small "reverse" bits which drill in a counter-clockwise direction. Many times just starting to drill the hole (for the remover) actually removes the bolt.
Google "bolt torque chart" find one you like, print it and paste it to your tool chest. This will help you learn the "typical" torque for each size bolt. If you then see a torque value much higher than in the chart, you will learn to triple check it and consider that the instructions might even have an error.
11-01-2014, 10:01 PM
#13
If the bolt isn't broken flush with the cam, you might can take a dremel and cut a slit in the bolt for a small flat head screwdriver to fit. Like said above,the bolt is no longer under tension and should come out easy....unless you crossthreaded...
11-01-2014, 10:47 PM
#15
Staging Lane
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Good to see your asking and trying to learn. Hope you get it all sorted and the rest of the cam swap is problem free.
11-02-2014, 07:04 AM
#16
No thank you for all you all help. I'm here to learn and have fun at the same time. What's the point of taking it to the shop and let them do the swap? Lol. No offense to those who own shops. There's a phletora of informations that can be found online and forums to be able to do the swap myself.
11-02-2014, 07:47 AM
#17
No thank you for all you all help. I'm here to learn and have fun at the same time. What's the point of taking it to the shop and let them do the swap? Lol. No offense to those who own shops. There's a phletora of informations that can be found online and forums to be able to do the swap myself.
11-04-2014, 03:07 PM
#18
Got it removed from the machine shop. 25 bucks. Yay!
Now I can assemble the block and get my pushrod length check so I can get the hardened pushrod.
How many miles does a stock ls1 piston and rods hold? Apparently the previous owner of the engine didn't change the pistons and rods during rebuild.
Btw arp crank bolt is 30 mm. For those who are wondering.
Now I can assemble the block and get my pushrod length check so I can get the hardened pushrod.
How many miles does a stock ls1 piston and rods hold? Apparently the previous owner of the engine didn't change the pistons and rods during rebuild.
Btw arp crank bolt is 30 mm. For those who are wondering.
11-13-2014, 12:14 AM
#19
In most engines that don't experience acute failure, the pistons and rods are not wear items. The rings, bearings, etc. are what wear and are replaced during a basic rebuild when retaining the same bore size. So basically like wheels on a car that don't usually wear out because the tires are the replaceable wear parts. Once your block needs an overbore you'll need larger pistons but again those stock-sized pistons probably wont be worn out in a lot of cases.
