Cam and valve trains for LS3 419ci stroker
#1
Moderator
Thread Starter
Cam and valve trains for LS3 419ci stroker
Note: In this thread I first wanted to share detailed information that Martin Smallwood from Tick Performance emailed me in reply to my cam questions. I then want to ask for suggestions on selecting lifters, push rods and timing gear. Thank you.
While I was having a LS3 stroker short block built by Livernois Motorsports, I asked Martin Smallwood to select/design a camshaft for me, which he graciously agreed to. I would like to remind everyone of this very informative cam thread by Martin:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-t-matter.html
Here are my full engine/drivetrain specs and ideas which I sent to Martin:
=========
LS3 forged stroker 419ci
Flycut pistons
11.0 compression
24x running 411 PCM
Trickflow LS3 CNC heads
Dual valve springs (155lb/465lb)
.650 max lift
Edelbrock EFI 4150-style intake manifold
FAST 1400cfm 4150-style EFI throttle body
Stock rockers with trunion upgrade
1-7/8" long headers, 3" exhaust, X-over, no cats
CircleD triple-clutch 3600 stall
4L65E with close-ratio gear set
3.73 rear ratio
Vehicle weight with driver = 3750lb
=========
On my recently sold LS2 I had a COMP 54-459-11 cam with 0.050=231/239 LSA=113 Lift=.617/.624.
This calculates to an overlap of 9 degrees @.050 and runs very well with power up to 7000 rpm. Before that cam, I had a custom cam (Patrick G) with 0.050=231/237 LSA=111 Lift=.612/.607. This calculates to an overlap of 12.7 degrees @.050) and while stronger at high RPM, was a bit rough for the street.
I read that higher displacement works better with additional duration, but I don’t know if it “softens” overlap too.
I was looking at this COMP cam with 235/251 LSA=113:
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1412&sb=0
It appears to be close to what I want, but has an overlap of 17 degrees which give me
pause.
(The next post is Martin's detailed reply.)
While I was having a LS3 stroker short block built by Livernois Motorsports, I asked Martin Smallwood to select/design a camshaft for me, which he graciously agreed to. I would like to remind everyone of this very informative cam thread by Martin:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-t-matter.html
Here are my full engine/drivetrain specs and ideas which I sent to Martin:
=========
LS3 forged stroker 419ci
Flycut pistons
11.0 compression
24x running 411 PCM
Trickflow LS3 CNC heads
Dual valve springs (155lb/465lb)
.650 max lift
Edelbrock EFI 4150-style intake manifold
FAST 1400cfm 4150-style EFI throttle body
Stock rockers with trunion upgrade
1-7/8" long headers, 3" exhaust, X-over, no cats
CircleD triple-clutch 3600 stall
4L65E with close-ratio gear set
3.73 rear ratio
Vehicle weight with driver = 3750lb
=========
On my recently sold LS2 I had a COMP 54-459-11 cam with 0.050=231/239 LSA=113 Lift=.617/.624.
This calculates to an overlap of 9 degrees @.050 and runs very well with power up to 7000 rpm. Before that cam, I had a custom cam (Patrick G) with 0.050=231/237 LSA=111 Lift=.612/.607. This calculates to an overlap of 12.7 degrees @.050) and while stronger at high RPM, was a bit rough for the street.
I read that higher displacement works better with additional duration, but I don’t know if it “softens” overlap too.
I was looking at this COMP cam with 235/251 LSA=113:
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1412&sb=0
It appears to be close to what I want, but has an overlap of 17 degrees which give me
pause.
(The next post is Martin's detailed reply.)
#2
Moderator
Thread Starter
Martin gave me this very detailed reply, which he agreed I could share here:
To understand how a larger engine soaks up overlap, you first have to understand piston speed and how it relates to cam timing.
The faster the piston moves, the less amount of time the intake port and exhaust port has to fill and exhaust the cylinder. Whether the piston is moving faster because the crankshaft is turning more revolutions per minute(higher rpm), or whether it is from a longer stroke crankshaft being used. Since a longer stroke crankshaft covers more ground per revolution of the crankshaft, it speeds up the rate that the piston travels for a given revolution.
So it's simple enough to say that a 4" stroke crank makes the induction and exhaust system think that the engine is turning more RPM. Therefor giving the ports less time to fill and exhaust the cylinder. We make up for this by opening the intake valve sooner, closing it later, opening the exhaust valve sooner and closing it later. All of this means more duration is needed to achieve these opening and closing events.
The intake manifold you've chosen effectively ends up needing more overlap to produce torque than a long runner intake does. Due to the difference in the runner lengths between the two manifolds, suction and compressive waves arrive at differing times in relation to piston motion. Since the longer runner has more length, the suction wave takes longer to reach the plenum once the intake valve opens, and the resulting compressive wave takes longer to reach the intake valve after the suction wave has reached the plenum. This means we use a later intake valve open and close event with a long runner. If we opened the intake valve earlier there would be no positive pressure from wave action in the intake manifold waiting behind the intake valve when it opens. This would cause reversion as the pressure in the cylinder would be higher than that of the intake except for at very high RPM. So we open it later when there is a positive pressure wave from wave action(when the intake valve closes pressure waves reverberate back and forth in the intake port) waiting to fill the cylinder which is now lower pressure than intake pressure.
The opposite is true about a shorter runner intake. Since there is less length to travel, the suction wave arrives earlier at the plenum which brings the compressive wave and the "ram effect" with it sooner. To take advantage of this and to increase cylinder fill while utilizing the ram effect, the intake valve must be opened sooner to give more curtain area(lift) at the valve to correspond with the compressive wave arriving sooner. Opposite is true for a long runner intake.
For overlap to do its job properly and help exhaust the cylinder and fill the cylinder, we must have well defined and established flow paths for this to occur. We open the intake valve sooner to get more lift by TDC so that when the piston starts the intake stroke and the primary ramming begins we have more curtain area and less restriction so more cylinder fill occurs making more torque. For overlap to work to its fullest, the exhaust valve also needs a given amount of curtain area. This exhaust lift and closing event has to coincide with the intake lift and opening event. So if we open the intake later due to what I've stated regarding the shorter runners, we must close the exhaust later as well. This means more overlap winds up being used in the cam profile.
It seems to me as if you are trying to keep overlap in check so you get the best driving manners?
I would not recommend a shelf cam for this application either. As you can see, careful design considerations need to be made that no off the shelf camshaft currently can meet for this application.
(The next post covers our discussions and final cam selection.)
To understand how a larger engine soaks up overlap, you first have to understand piston speed and how it relates to cam timing.
The faster the piston moves, the less amount of time the intake port and exhaust port has to fill and exhaust the cylinder. Whether the piston is moving faster because the crankshaft is turning more revolutions per minute(higher rpm), or whether it is from a longer stroke crankshaft being used. Since a longer stroke crankshaft covers more ground per revolution of the crankshaft, it speeds up the rate that the piston travels for a given revolution.
So it's simple enough to say that a 4" stroke crank makes the induction and exhaust system think that the engine is turning more RPM. Therefor giving the ports less time to fill and exhaust the cylinder. We make up for this by opening the intake valve sooner, closing it later, opening the exhaust valve sooner and closing it later. All of this means more duration is needed to achieve these opening and closing events.
The intake manifold you've chosen effectively ends up needing more overlap to produce torque than a long runner intake does. Due to the difference in the runner lengths between the two manifolds, suction and compressive waves arrive at differing times in relation to piston motion. Since the longer runner has more length, the suction wave takes longer to reach the plenum once the intake valve opens, and the resulting compressive wave takes longer to reach the intake valve after the suction wave has reached the plenum. This means we use a later intake valve open and close event with a long runner. If we opened the intake valve earlier there would be no positive pressure from wave action in the intake manifold waiting behind the intake valve when it opens. This would cause reversion as the pressure in the cylinder would be higher than that of the intake except for at very high RPM. So we open it later when there is a positive pressure wave from wave action(when the intake valve closes pressure waves reverberate back and forth in the intake port) waiting to fill the cylinder which is now lower pressure than intake pressure.
The opposite is true about a shorter runner intake. Since there is less length to travel, the suction wave arrives earlier at the plenum which brings the compressive wave and the "ram effect" with it sooner. To take advantage of this and to increase cylinder fill while utilizing the ram effect, the intake valve must be opened sooner to give more curtain area(lift) at the valve to correspond with the compressive wave arriving sooner. Opposite is true for a long runner intake.
For overlap to do its job properly and help exhaust the cylinder and fill the cylinder, we must have well defined and established flow paths for this to occur. We open the intake valve sooner to get more lift by TDC so that when the piston starts the intake stroke and the primary ramming begins we have more curtain area and less restriction so more cylinder fill occurs making more torque. For overlap to work to its fullest, the exhaust valve also needs a given amount of curtain area. This exhaust lift and closing event has to coincide with the intake lift and opening event. So if we open the intake later due to what I've stated regarding the shorter runners, we must close the exhaust later as well. This means more overlap winds up being used in the cam profile.
It seems to me as if you are trying to keep overlap in check so you get the best driving manners?
I would not recommend a shelf cam for this application either. As you can see, careful design considerations need to be made that no off the shelf camshaft currently can meet for this application.
(The next post covers our discussions and final cam selection.)
#3
Moderator
Thread Starter
Martin and I next discussed the custom cam design.
For maximum performance Martin suggested something with 25+ degrees of overlap, but I explained that good street manners were more important to me. Martin then suggested a cam with 23 degrees of overlap. (Sorry forgot the exact specs).
After thinking about it for a few days, I was still nervous about so much overlap and shared my concerns with Martin. He then came back with a cam with 19 degrees of overlap and these specs:
239/251 .621/.632 113+3
This is currently on order.
BTW - I was stunned to see that the stock LS7 engine has a cam with negative 17 degrees of overlap.
For maximum performance Martin suggested something with 25+ degrees of overlap, but I explained that good street manners were more important to me. Martin then suggested a cam with 23 degrees of overlap. (Sorry forgot the exact specs).
After thinking about it for a few days, I was still nervous about so much overlap and shared my concerns with Martin. He then came back with a cam with 19 degrees of overlap and these specs:
239/251 .621/.632 113+3
This is currently on order.
BTW - I was stunned to see that the stock LS7 engine has a cam with negative 17 degrees of overlap.
#4
Moderator
Thread Starter
Now, I am open to suggestions for the lifters, push rods and timing gear.
Lifters. I am inclined to just get LS7 lifters as zillions of people use them with good results. Not sure what their RPM limit is, but I have used them to 7000. Or should I seriously consider some $700 Morel lifters? I'm not keen on link bars as I cannot then use the trays and easily swap cams. I do have brand new trays; I suspect worn trays is what causes some LS7 lifters to fail. I would aim for .025 - .050 or preload.
I have read Martin's preference for short-travel lifters in this tread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...hold-up-2.html
However the sales rep at Livernois Motorsports mentioned that short-travel lifters are harder on the lifter bores. Is this true or a concern?
I have looked at the Morel 5206, 4736, 5850, 4708 lifters, but don't think any of those are short-travel. IIRC GM performance makes a race-style short-travel lifter.
Push rods. It seems that 3/8" push rods, which are barely more expensive, help stiffen the valve train, which more than makes up for their nominal additional weight. COMP makes 3/8" push rods with 5/16" ends to fit LS lifters and rockers. Open to all suggestions.
Timing gear set. I have a new COMP hex-adjust single-chain timing gear set, but wonder if I should get a double-chain set. Any specific suggestions would be appreciated. Please remember that I am running a 24x reluctor which works with a 1x cam gear. I am hoping for a double-chain set that requires minimal clearance work on the cam cover. I am running a standard volume oil pump.
Thank you. I hope that this thread will be helpful to others.
Lifters. I am inclined to just get LS7 lifters as zillions of people use them with good results. Not sure what their RPM limit is, but I have used them to 7000. Or should I seriously consider some $700 Morel lifters? I'm not keen on link bars as I cannot then use the trays and easily swap cams. I do have brand new trays; I suspect worn trays is what causes some LS7 lifters to fail. I would aim for .025 - .050 or preload.
I have read Martin's preference for short-travel lifters in this tread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...hold-up-2.html
However the sales rep at Livernois Motorsports mentioned that short-travel lifters are harder on the lifter bores. Is this true or a concern?
I have looked at the Morel 5206, 4736, 5850, 4708 lifters, but don't think any of those are short-travel. IIRC GM performance makes a race-style short-travel lifter.
Push rods. It seems that 3/8" push rods, which are barely more expensive, help stiffen the valve train, which more than makes up for their nominal additional weight. COMP makes 3/8" push rods with 5/16" ends to fit LS lifters and rockers. Open to all suggestions.
Timing gear set. I have a new COMP hex-adjust single-chain timing gear set, but wonder if I should get a double-chain set. Any specific suggestions would be appreciated. Please remember that I am running a 24x reluctor which works with a 1x cam gear. I am hoping for a double-chain set that requires minimal clearance work on the cam cover. I am running a standard volume oil pump.
Thank you. I hope that this thread will be helpful to others.
#5
Interesting. Yes to the 3/8" pushrods. Make sure you have the clearance in the heads. I am building a forged LS3 based 427 but with the factory manifold. Patrick G quoted me a 238/244 @ .050 and .629/.629 on the lift. Then again a different intake manifold.
#6
FormerVendor
iTrader: (1)
Now, I am open to suggestions for the lifters, push rods and timing gear.
Lifters. I am inclined to just get LS7 lifters as zillions of people use them with good results. Not sure what their RPM limit is, but I have used them to 7000. Or should I seriously consider some $700 Morel lifters? I'm not keen on link bars as I cannot then use the trays and easily swap cams. I do have brand new trays; I suspect worn trays is what causes some LS7 lifters to fail. I would aim for .025 - .050 or preload.
I have read Martin's preference for short-travel lifters in this tread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...hold-up-2.html
However the sales rep at Livernois Motorsports mentioned that short-travel lifters are harder on the lifter bores. Is this true or a concern?
I have looked at the Morel 5206, 4736, 5850, 4708 lifters, but don't think any of those are short-travel. IIRC GM performance makes a race-style short-travel lifter.
Push rods. It seems that 3/8" push rods, which are barely more expensive, help stiffen the valve train, which more than makes up for their nominal additional weight. COMP makes 3/8" push rods with 5/16" ends to fit LS lifters and rockers. Open to all suggestions.
Timing gear set. I have a new COMP hex-adjust single-chain timing gear set, but wonder if I should get a double-chain set. Any specific suggestions would be appreciated. Please remember that I am running a 24x reluctor which works with a 1x cam gear. I am hoping for a double-chain set that requires minimal clearance work on the cam cover. I am running a standard volume oil pump.
Thank you. I hope that this thread will be helpful to others.
Lifters. I am inclined to just get LS7 lifters as zillions of people use them with good results. Not sure what their RPM limit is, but I have used them to 7000. Or should I seriously consider some $700 Morel lifters? I'm not keen on link bars as I cannot then use the trays and easily swap cams. I do have brand new trays; I suspect worn trays is what causes some LS7 lifters to fail. I would aim for .025 - .050 or preload.
I have read Martin's preference for short-travel lifters in this tread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...hold-up-2.html
However the sales rep at Livernois Motorsports mentioned that short-travel lifters are harder on the lifter bores. Is this true or a concern?
I have looked at the Morel 5206, 4736, 5850, 4708 lifters, but don't think any of those are short-travel. IIRC GM performance makes a race-style short-travel lifter.
Push rods. It seems that 3/8" push rods, which are barely more expensive, help stiffen the valve train, which more than makes up for their nominal additional weight. COMP makes 3/8" push rods with 5/16" ends to fit LS lifters and rockers. Open to all suggestions.
Timing gear set. I have a new COMP hex-adjust single-chain timing gear set, but wonder if I should get a double-chain set. Any specific suggestions would be appreciated. Please remember that I am running a 24x reluctor which works with a 1x cam gear. I am hoping for a double-chain set that requires minimal clearance work on the cam cover. I am running a standard volume oil pump.
Thank you. I hope that this thread will be helpful to others.
#7
Moderator
Thread Starter
Thank you for clarifying that the Livernois sale rep was only referring to the CTSV-R short-travel lifters. Now I wonder which lifters Martin and others like.
LivernoisMotorsports: Since my block was CNC-blueprinted by you, I would expect you to know if the 3/8" pushrods work in the block.
LivernoisMotorsports: Since my block was CNC-blueprinted by you, I would expect you to know if the 3/8" pushrods work in the block.
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#8
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
I'm on the third camshaft in my LS3 stroker using cathedral heads, overlap from 17* to 10 & now 5*. All three have been the same LS7 lifters, the most recent cam has softer lobes & somewhat less lift. The previous camshaft had LSK lobes & broke Intake & Exhaust springs.
In my quest for perfect street manners with a safe & stable valve train was the motive. All the springs were changed & individually shimmed, on average .030 tighter than previously. This was to insure stability due to Yella Terra roller rockers, there was a slight hint of valve train float previously.
When the new cam was started I did not let motor idle, I ran the rpm up to 2k varying down to 1500 until everything had warmed up nicely. I had the VCM controls open with HP Tuners so I could keep the AFR in line should their have been large swing with the different camshaft.
As it idle down I could hear the distinctly louder valve train, uncomfortably louder. Letting it idle I wondered around the motor listening, the increased noise was everywhere so I'm satisfied it's the new combination not something I did. I did make quick pushrod length check prior to starting & it seemed very close to the previous camshaft. The pushrods are Manton 11/32, just under 3/8's.
The theory is, tighter shimming increased the open seat pressure to approx. 450-460lbs. Crossed the line with LS7 lifters, my dilemma now is to pull the heads & replace the lifters. Martin suggests the Morell drop ins.
That's my story
In my quest for perfect street manners with a safe & stable valve train was the motive. All the springs were changed & individually shimmed, on average .030 tighter than previously. This was to insure stability due to Yella Terra roller rockers, there was a slight hint of valve train float previously.
When the new cam was started I did not let motor idle, I ran the rpm up to 2k varying down to 1500 until everything had warmed up nicely. I had the VCM controls open with HP Tuners so I could keep the AFR in line should their have been large swing with the different camshaft.
As it idle down I could hear the distinctly louder valve train, uncomfortably louder. Letting it idle I wondered around the motor listening, the increased noise was everywhere so I'm satisfied it's the new combination not something I did. I did make quick pushrod length check prior to starting & it seemed very close to the previous camshaft. The pushrods are Manton 11/32, just under 3/8's.
The theory is, tighter shimming increased the open seat pressure to approx. 450-460lbs. Crossed the line with LS7 lifters, my dilemma now is to pull the heads & replace the lifters. Martin suggests the Morell drop ins.
That's my story
#9
FormerVendor
iTrader: (1)
Thank you for clarifying that the Livernois sale rep was only referring to the CTSV-R short-travel lifters. Now I wonder which lifters Martin and others like.
LivernoisMotorsports: Since my block was CNC-blueprinted by you, I would expect you to know if the 3/8" pushrods work in the block.
LivernoisMotorsports: Since my block was CNC-blueprinted by you, I would expect you to know if the 3/8" pushrods work in the block.
#10
Moderator
Thread Starter
As is the block is set up to run the 5/16" as is....
With you installing the valvetrain; heads; oil pan; timing set; rockers; degreeing camshaft; setting oil pump pick up depth;checking piston to valve; determining pushrod length; adjusting rockers. There is a lot of work left to do. .
With you installing the valvetrain; heads; oil pan; timing set; rockers; degreeing camshaft; setting oil pump pick up depth;checking piston to valve; determining pushrod length; adjusting rockers. There is a lot of work left to do. .
However, I am still glad I had you build the short block, especially after looking over my engine build specs with every clearance document to 1/10,000".
#11
Moderator
Thread Starter
Are you running single Beehive? If yes, you might want to instead take out the shims and install dual valve springs.
And thanks for mentioning the 11/32" push rods; I forgot about the size.
#12
FormerVendor
iTrader: (3)
I'd highly recommend the Morel 5315 drop in lifters. We run them in a myriad of applications with great results and success.
If you feel you may not have enough room for a full bodied 3/8" push rod, I can always get you a tapered version from Trend. They are additional cost for the tapered versions, but the additional strength is well worth it.
As Livernois stated, the push rod side of the valve train in terms of weight has proven to not matter in terms of valve train stability. The stronger you can make the push rod the more power you will make as result.
If you feel you may not have enough room for a full bodied 3/8" push rod, I can always get you a tapered version from Trend. They are additional cost for the tapered versions, but the additional strength is well worth it.
As Livernois stated, the push rod side of the valve train in terms of weight has proven to not matter in terms of valve train stability. The stronger you can make the push rod the more power you will make as result.
#13
Moderator
Thread Starter
Thank you for the suggestion on the Morel 5315. At $200 for a set, I like the price; just wasn't sure they were any better than the LS7.
I will carefully check if 3/8" pushrods fit, else try the 11/32" or consider the "Trend" (which I am not familiar with).
Martin, you emailed me that my single-chain COMP cam timing set should be fine, as did Livernois.
I will carefully check if 3/8" pushrods fit, else try the 11/32" or consider the "Trend" (which I am not familiar with).
Martin, you emailed me that my single-chain COMP cam timing set should be fine, as did Livernois.
#15
Moderator
Thread Starter
Update - I received the custom cam from Tick Performance - 239/251 .621/.632 113+3 as mentioned before. I installed the cam with the COMP 3158KT single-chain hex adjust timing set; it includes a torrington thrust bearing. I did not measure the cam end play but confirmed by "feel" that there was a small amount. (Spec is .001 to .012)
I bought and received the Morel 5315 lifters that Martin recommended, and of course new lifter trays. To degree the cam, I only installed two for cylinder #1.
I bolted several steel plates to the block for my dial indicator magnets.
Using a dial indicator, I found TDC and set my degree wheel accordingly.
The first challenge was how to measure the lifter sitting far down in the block. Fortunately I had some tiny thread 2" screws to replace the tip of my dial indicator.
I know there are ways to thoroughly degree a cam, but I wanted just a quick test. With the lifter on the base circle at TDC and the dial indicator at 0, I turned the crank almost a complete turn until the dial indicator read 0.050. My degree wheel then read 9* BTDC and this agreed exactly with my cam card. Good enough for me - this ensures I installed the timing set correctly, had the hex-adjust at 0 and that the cam wasn't manufactured obviously wrong.
Next step was to determine the correct push rod length. Since the Trick Flow heads are spec'd as needing 0.3" longer push rods, I ordered two 7.700 in both 5/16" and 3/8" sizes and a COMP adjustable push rod. With the stock rockers installed, the 7.700 was way too short, but I was happy to see plenty of clearance for the 3/8" push rods.
Using 12" calipers I noted that the 7.700 advertised push rods have a 7.712 total length. After some experimentation, I determined that 7.775 advertised length would give me the desired 0.040-0.050 pre-load.
Next I noticed that 7.775 3/8" push rods are not readily available from e.g. Summit; they have a 2+ week delivery time.
Therefore I called Trend Performance and learned that they sell direct and they had those push rods in stock for next day shipping. At a better-than-Summit price.
With Michigan getting another "Polar Vortex" this week, I turned off the heat to my garage and will resume this weekend.
Thanks again to Martin for the cam spec, the lifter recommendation and the excellent source for push rods.
I bought and received the Morel 5315 lifters that Martin recommended, and of course new lifter trays. To degree the cam, I only installed two for cylinder #1.
I bolted several steel plates to the block for my dial indicator magnets.
Using a dial indicator, I found TDC and set my degree wheel accordingly.
The first challenge was how to measure the lifter sitting far down in the block. Fortunately I had some tiny thread 2" screws to replace the tip of my dial indicator.
I know there are ways to thoroughly degree a cam, but I wanted just a quick test. With the lifter on the base circle at TDC and the dial indicator at 0, I turned the crank almost a complete turn until the dial indicator read 0.050. My degree wheel then read 9* BTDC and this agreed exactly with my cam card. Good enough for me - this ensures I installed the timing set correctly, had the hex-adjust at 0 and that the cam wasn't manufactured obviously wrong.
Next step was to determine the correct push rod length. Since the Trick Flow heads are spec'd as needing 0.3" longer push rods, I ordered two 7.700 in both 5/16" and 3/8" sizes and a COMP adjustable push rod. With the stock rockers installed, the 7.700 was way too short, but I was happy to see plenty of clearance for the 3/8" push rods.
Using 12" calipers I noted that the 7.700 advertised push rods have a 7.712 total length. After some experimentation, I determined that 7.775 advertised length would give me the desired 0.040-0.050 pre-load.
Next I noticed that 7.775 3/8" push rods are not readily available from e.g. Summit; they have a 2+ week delivery time.
Therefore I called Trend Performance and learned that they sell direct and they had those push rods in stock for next day shipping. At a better-than-Summit price.
With Michigan getting another "Polar Vortex" this week, I turned off the heat to my garage and will resume this weekend.
Thanks again to Martin for the cam spec, the lifter recommendation and the excellent source for push rods.
#16
Moderator
Thread Starter
Here are some pics of the cam install.
First, the cam and the COMP hex-adjust timing set are installed. Also the stock chain dampener:
Next, finding TDC with a dial indicator:
Next, using an extension on my dial indicator into the intake lobe's lifter I turned the crank clockwise nearly one turn until the cam lifted 0.050:
The degree wheel indicated 9 degrees BTDC:
That agreed exactly with my cam card. While more elaborate checks can be made, this was good enough for me as it confirmed that the timing was correct and that the cam was most likely correct.
First, the cam and the COMP hex-adjust timing set are installed. Also the stock chain dampener:
Next, finding TDC with a dial indicator:
Next, using an extension on my dial indicator into the intake lobe's lifter I turned the crank clockwise nearly one turn until the cam lifted 0.050:
The degree wheel indicated 9 degrees BTDC:
That agreed exactly with my cam card. While more elaborate checks can be made, this was good enough for me as it confirmed that the timing was correct and that the cam was most likely correct.
#18
FormerVendor
iTrader: (3)
Here are some pics of the cam install.
First, the cam and the COMP hex-adjust timing set are installed. Also the stock chain dampener:
Next, finding TDC with a dial indicator:
Next, using an extension on my dial indicator into the intake lobe's lifter I turned the crank clockwise nearly one turn until the cam lifted 0.050:
The degree wheel indicated 9 degrees BTDC:
That agreed exactly with my cam card. While more elaborate checks can be made, this was good enough for me as it confirmed that the timing was correct and that the cam was most likely correct.
First, the cam and the COMP hex-adjust timing set are installed. Also the stock chain dampener:
Next, finding TDC with a dial indicator:
Next, using an extension on my dial indicator into the intake lobe's lifter I turned the crank clockwise nearly one turn until the cam lifted 0.050:
The degree wheel indicated 9 degrees BTDC:
That agreed exactly with my cam card. While more elaborate checks can be made, this was good enough for me as it confirmed that the timing was correct and that the cam was most likely correct.
This is the BEST way to check the camshafts we sell at Tick Performance.
While you can degree a cam using ICL, checking the valve events @.050" lobe lift with a degree wheel versus what the card says is THE most accurate way to ensure the valve timing is correct and the cam is installed as designed.
If the cylinder head and valve train components are installed you can also check valve events with a dial indicator set up on the retainer. You would simply multiply your rocker ratio by the lobe lift you wanted to check valve events at. So if you're checking valve events @.050" lobe lift, and you have a 1.7 ratio rocker you'd need to be comparing your degree wheel reading with your cam card once the dial indicator reaches .085".
You can also check @.085" valve lift on the closing side of the lobe as well just to be extra meticulous. I personally would check the IO, IC, EO and EC events to ensure all lobes were ground correctly. If you're at the stage that Mrvedit is in the degreeing process, checking the other three valve events is very easy, simple and quick to do.
The lobes I use are asymmetrical and they open faster than they close.
While the ICL on the card may say 110* after tdc and you may think that is where max lift occurs, it actually does not.
Max lift on this cam would occur slightly earlier than 110 crank degrees after TDC due to the offset the intake lobe has. The exhaust lobe is also offset as well.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 01-15-2015 at 12:39 PM.