Someone else's LS3 disaster becomes my project
03-13-2016, 11:31 AM
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Someone else's LS3 disaster becomes my project I recently picked up an LS motor from a friend. He was told it was an LS9/ZR1 motor that had "some issues", which the shop wouldn't disclose. They said it was a "good, rebuildable motor" with around 2K on it.
Aren't they all......
Anyway, once the motor was delivered and opened up, the mystery deepens. The block casting number is definitely LS9, but nothing about the casting looks like the LS9 block. No oil squirters, for one, nor any provision for them.
We pulled the heads and pan off. No gaskets underneath the LS3 heads, the lifter basket bolts were missing, and so were the rod caps. Like, all of them were gone. There was a single half of a rod bearing lying loose in the pan.
Then comes the real heartbreak: the top two rings on each piston were missing completely. The only thing that remained was the oil control ring. One of those was twisting loose and had scored the top of the sleeve. Evidently, someone put this thing together out of crap they had laying in their shop and decided to sell it as a complete long block.
My friend is out, and I'm left with this thing. I've already located a set of LS3 rods for cheap, and the LS3 heads are being reconditioned right now. Texas Speed is the place to go for a reasonably priced OEM gasket kit, but the rest of this is starting to worry me. I haven't pulled the crank to have it checked, but if its bad there's another $500 down the crapper. The rings are another $300, probably.
The big worry is the bores. A couple of the pistons were difficult to pull and showed faint skirt wear. I suspect I might have some distortion in the sleeves. That, plus the gouge in one sleeve makes me wonder if the shop will be able to save this block as is. If it has to be re-sleeved, that will effectively double the price of this project.
Right now, I suspect that the reason all these LS3 parts were in an LS9 block is that the shop had a failed LS9 sitting there, and stuffed it with parts from an LS3 that had some kind of major event that shattered the rings. The entire combustion chamber and piston tops were slagged, but there was nothing like that in the upper sleeve or the deck.
I would appreciate any advice you folks can give on how to save this project, as reasonably as possible.
Aren't they all......
Anyway, once the motor was delivered and opened up, the mystery deepens. The block casting number is definitely LS9, but nothing about the casting looks like the LS9 block. No oil squirters, for one, nor any provision for them.
We pulled the heads and pan off. No gaskets underneath the LS3 heads, the lifter basket bolts were missing, and so were the rod caps. Like, all of them were gone. There was a single half of a rod bearing lying loose in the pan.
Then comes the real heartbreak: the top two rings on each piston were missing completely. The only thing that remained was the oil control ring. One of those was twisting loose and had scored the top of the sleeve. Evidently, someone put this thing together out of crap they had laying in their shop and decided to sell it as a complete long block.
My friend is out, and I'm left with this thing. I've already located a set of LS3 rods for cheap, and the LS3 heads are being reconditioned right now. Texas Speed is the place to go for a reasonably priced OEM gasket kit, but the rest of this is starting to worry me. I haven't pulled the crank to have it checked, but if its bad there's another $500 down the crapper. The rings are another $300, probably.
The big worry is the bores. A couple of the pistons were difficult to pull and showed faint skirt wear. I suspect I might have some distortion in the sleeves. That, plus the gouge in one sleeve makes me wonder if the shop will be able to save this block as is. If it has to be re-sleeved, that will effectively double the price of this project.
Right now, I suspect that the reason all these LS3 parts were in an LS9 block is that the shop had a failed LS9 sitting there, and stuffed it with parts from an LS3 that had some kind of major event that shattered the rings. The entire combustion chamber and piston tops were slagged, but there was nothing like that in the upper sleeve or the deck.
I would appreciate any advice you folks can give on how to save this project, as reasonably as possible.
03-13-2016, 11:38 AM
#2
Is the LS9 crank still in there or LS3? If you have the LS9 crank and LS3 rods, you might as well get a new crank anyways. The LS9 is meant for titanium rods, so it was balanced to a very light bobweight. If you switch to steel rods, you're going to spend some money on heavy metal just to balance it.
03-13-2016, 11:44 AM
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Here's some pics... I seriously doubt that this is an LS9 crank. The casting number is standard: 1255 2216.
I have to say that my LS2 that lost rod bearings at 40k+ had sleeves that looked far better than this thing. I could still see a cross hatch on the LS2 - these sleeves are discolored and have a mirror finish.
I have to say that my LS2 that lost rod bearings at 40k+ had sleeves that looked far better than this thing. I could still see a cross hatch on the LS2 - these sleeves are discolored and have a mirror finish.
Last edited by Copperhead; 03-13-2016 at 11:55 AM.
03-13-2016, 11:58 AM
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Is the LS9 crank still in there or LS3? If you have the LS9 crank and LS3 rods, you might as well get a new crank anyways. The LS9 is meant for titanium rods, so it was balanced to a very light bobweight. If you switch to steel rods, you're going to spend some money on heavy metal just to balance it.
03-13-2016, 12:05 PM
#5
No, the titanium rods aren't cracked cap as far as I recall. They're a silver color too, easily distinguishable from the powdered metal rods. From the pictures you posted, it doesn't look like you have an LS9 crank or titanium rods. Do you have the longer snout on the crank for the dry sump?
03-13-2016, 12:21 PM
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No, the titanium rods aren't cracked cap as far as I recall. They're a silver color too, easily distinguishable from the powdered metal rods. From the pictures you posted, it doesn't look like you have an LS9 crank or titanium rods. Do you have the longer snout on the crank for the dry sump?
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03-17-2016, 06:25 AM
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You mean my friend? Or the shop?
As far as the shop that put all this together, well... may the entire Atlantic be their enema.
I bought my friend out of the motor, there are no hard feelings. I wanted the experience - and another LS3 - so I'm going to see this through, and I'm only going to sub out work that I couldn't possibly do myself. Like stuff that requires CNC work or expensive tools.
A local shop is going to handle the block prep, and for what I think is a reasonable price, but you guys tell me. A thorough cleaning, new cam bearings, and honing for less than $300. Another $100 if it needs to be align bored. Crank polish for $50. I'm going to have to reinstall the crank with new bearings, which will be a new experience for me, but it doesn't look like rocket surgery.
As I said earlier, my big concern is the bores. Its my contention that if you can see a scratch, it can be honed out, but if you can feel a scratch you need an overbore. If this thing has to go to 4.070, I have to get new pistons, right? The LS motor isn't the old SBC, where you could go to JC Whitney and get +.010 rings and pronounce it roadworthy.
05-04-2016, 10:24 PM
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Can you post a link to any of those cheap piston sets? I just spent quite a lot of time searching and the lowest price I could come up with was a no name brand set of 8 without rings for $449.
