When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Have you read about LS7 heads they are know
for dropping valves, and original question was
about repairing valve guide issue, not all heads
but some, and some folks want to do what
they can to try to prevent valve issues, and
what some of the actual cylinder head specialist say, it's got something to do with guides.
Google it tons of reading on the issue.
I have mine but they arent installed yet... I went with AHP for a couple reasons. Now first off I have no experience with TSP ported heads however my biggest thing is I did NOT want bronze guides. I drive my car every day and unless you go with a good roller rocker the stock geometry will cause some side loading of the valve and wear the guides out faster.
AHP was the only company I could find in my research that uses PM guides which is the same material as stock gm heads. Next was the valve selection companies like wcch and others use a solid stainless exhaust valve. These valves typically weigh 100-120g depending, while the stock valve weighs in around 74g. Lots of people say there is nothing wrong with the stock valves and use them again, however I would rather be safe than sorry. Enter in the Ferrea 2042 hollow stainless valve. It is still a 1 piece valve and weighs in around 84g, solid valves have been proven through spintron testing by katech to lose control above 6500 rpm with stock AND dual springs. I did not want to lose rpm in a stock engine, the 2042 valve has been tested and even with stock springs retains valve control to well over 7000 rpm just as the stock valves. Again AHP offers these valves in their heads as part of the 1300 dollar package.
Finally I looked at the reviews, wcch has good reviews but uses heavy valves and bronze guides so they were out. I couldnt find much info on tsp and they also used bronze guides. Now could someone use bronze guides, buy roller rockers, and use an appropriate spring to control them and a heavy dual spring? Yes, but at that point the whole budget minded consensus sort of goes out the window. I also found several people who had 10's of thousands of miles on their AHP heads with no issues which also helped me feel better.
My whole thing was that I did not want to sacrifice rpm over stock and make the valvetrain heavier when there was no need. AHP delievered that for me, Kohle is a great guy to talk to and offers a core exchange program to eliminate downtime, if you want the cnc porting done it brings the total cost of the package to 1850.
Last lets address the fact that TSP heads do not cost 1000 bucks. I went in and built, what I consider the bare minimum for ls7 heads. I selected to just remain with the base solid valve they replace in the heads, which I mentioned are not good for valve control, and to replace the guides with bronze ones. Now at that point you would need to at least try to control all that with a dual spring even though tests have shown it does not work well to 7k like oem does. The price is already 1300. So all in all its a 500 dollar difference to have ahp do it.
Now I am not bashing tsp, I'm sure they do good work. But these are facts and the buyer should be informed about the pros and cons of what he is doing.
Lonnie at Texas Speed told me I could get PW guides if I wanted for no extra charge.
Jason or who posted from Texas Speed, please send me a good email to convo. I tried PM and emsil and very slow responses.
This is my TSP headed/cam LS1 running with a co-workers head/cam LS2 from trick flow
Well, not that it's any consolation, but my LS7 in my 09 Z06 is on engine #2 and I didn't know until after I bought it. CarFax didn't show it, but GM did.
Grenaded at 22k miles bone stock. Car now has 40k so let's say I'm getting anxious myself. I'm not even considering AHP though. Too many fan-boys and nobody in the racing world has ever heard of them.
The hollow stem exhaust valves are a MUST for me, as are reusing the Ti... I'm interested to see where this goes OP. I'm torn between a few folks right now myself.
The heads are $1050.00 to get ported, valve jobbed, new guides and new exhaust valves. To get to $1300.00 you are adding in springs. Some people may need them but they are a separate add on. I didn't include it in the original post because most people don't need them. We do these heads on a daily basis and truth be told, most people already have an aftermarket camshaft once they get to this point. Meaning they already have a spring.
At this point we have thousands of heads out there and we don't have issues with the stock rockers and the bronze guides. However if you want a steel guide, we can add those for the same price. We can even do a hollow exhaust valve for an additional $50.00. Although I don't feel like it's needed, those are always options.
Originally Posted by redbird555
I have mine but they arent installed yet... I went with AHP for a couple reasons. Now first off I have no experience with TSP ported heads however my biggest thing is I did NOT want bronze guides. I drive my car every day and unless you go with a good roller rocker the stock geometry will cause some side loading of the valve and wear the guides out faster.
AHP was the only company I could find in my research that uses PM guides which is the same material as stock gm heads. Next was the valve selection companies like wcch and others use a solid stainless exhaust valve. These valves typically weigh 100-120g depending, while the stock valve weighs in around 74g. Lots of people say there is nothing wrong with the stock valves and use them again, however I would rather be safe than sorry. Enter in the Ferrea 2042 hollow stainless valve. It is still a 1 piece valve and weighs in around 84g, solid valves have been proven through spintron testing by katech to lose control above 6500 rpm with stock AND dual springs. I did not want to lose rpm in a stock engine, the 2042 valve has been tested and even with stock springs retains valve control to well over 7000 rpm just as the stock valves. Again AHP offers these valves in their heads as part of the 1300 dollar package.
Finally I looked at the reviews, wcch has good reviews but uses heavy valves and bronze guides so they were out. I couldnt find much info on tsp and they also used bronze guides. Now could someone use bronze guides, buy roller rockers, and use an appropriate spring to control them and a heavy dual spring? Yes, but at that point the whole budget minded consensus sort of goes out the window. I also found several people who had 10's of thousands of miles on their AHP heads with no issues which also helped me feel better.
My whole thing was that I did not want to sacrifice rpm over stock and make the valvetrain heavier when there was no need. AHP delievered that for me, Kohle is a great guy to talk to and offers a core exchange program to eliminate downtime, if you want the cnc porting done it brings the total cost of the package to 1850.
Last lets address the fact that TSP heads do not cost 1000 bucks. I went in and built, what I consider the bare minimum for ls7 heads. I selected to just remain with the base solid valve they replace in the heads, which I mentioned are not good for valve control, and to replace the guides with bronze ones. Now at that point you would need to at least try to control all that with a dual spring even though tests have shown it does not work well to 7k like oem does. The price is already 1300. So all in all its a 500 dollar difference to have ahp do it.
Now I am not bashing tsp, I'm sure they do good work. But these are facts and the buyer should be informed about the pros and cons of what he is doing.
__________________
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
I notice some guys like to read something on the internet & assume it's fact.
Here's the facts:
TSP uses a cnc machine to cnc bore & cnc ream the new guides to exact location when re-machining your stock castings. I'd bet money every other shop offering this service currently goes after you stock head with a air hammer & a hand drill to hone new guides. A precision ground multipoint reamer helps us to insure the guide bores are straight. How straight can someone get a guide with a hand drill and a hone? The truth is the guides like to ream differently when they go from being surrounded by aluminum (press fit) to sitting up above the valve spring pocket surface. With the TSP process you're guaranteed to keep the correct valve location & angles. With a hand drill and big hammer how can you possibly have any idea where the guide actually ends up? With the TSP process we cnc machine from start to finish & use a probe to verify location and angle!
As far as guide options go we offer both the steel guide option & the bronze guide option. Because we use a very high quality bronze we typically prefer the bronze option, but if you want a steel guide we can handle it no problem. There's probably about 5,000 of those guides in stock so I bet we can cover you on that!
From the aspect of valve options I believe we are leading the way on that as well. We stock both stock GM valves, Stainless Steel valves, and the Hollow Stem Stainless valves!
As far as comparing the PRC LS7 port to the competition I'll tell you this. The PRC LS7 is a absolute leader in LS7 head performance & reliability. The PRC LS7 heads have made over 1600rwhp and pushed a car to over 260mph! Furthermore the cylinder head program is so good that our friends at the School of Automotive Machinist used the PRC LS7 in one of their Engine Masters Challenge Engines!
__________________
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
So you're saying AHP will do the same work as TSP, but with powdered metal guides a more expensive hollow stem valve for $500 less than TSP? That doesn't seem right. I don't think there's enough profit margin in machining cylinder heads for one company to have a $500 difference from another, especially when you're talking about the cheaper company using more expensive parts.
I think you mis understood what I said. AHP is 500 MORE than TSP for the same work. AHP is 1300 for an unported casting with hollow valves and pm guides. TSP is charges that for a ported casting with solid valves and a new spring kit. If you want ahp to port them the heads are 1850, hence the 500 difference
There are lots of band wagooners that will just jump in just because everyone is doing the same.
I buy my parts based on research, period. I can only talk based on my findings and the performance I have seen and can validate. People will list data without a baseline then claim that it delivers x y or z, or apples to oranges. Nah.
I went with TSP for the work on my LS7 heads due to results I seen, and the performance they delivered. I provided my springs (PSI1515ML) and Ferrera Hollow Stem valves, they did their CNC port, bronze guides and assembly.
Those heads on my combo with a cam that I spec'd (19 deg overlap) and is good for 599RW on 93 octane.
TSP head work on the LS7 is spectacular, their customer service was top notch and they very promptly (10 days) took care of my heads.
Not to take the thread off point, what are some of the pro's and con's of running bronze guides rather than steel guides? Is there one? I know one metal is softer.
Not to take the thread off point, what are some of the pro's and con's of running bronze guides rather than steel guides? Is there one? I know one metal is softer.
No need I Googled it and found something.
I was told bronze guides are not happy with stock rockers. They tend to wear because they cant stand the side loading. If the TSP bronze is harder, it shouldnt be a problem
Richard WCCH did my Brodix BR7 Heads almost over 3 years ago...Stage two porting...New DEL WEST Ti/MO intakes, with hardened insert, SS exhaust Valves DEL WEST...CHE rockers, bronze CHE guides, BT dual springs...Valve train is quiet, no issues to date...
Based on what I can tell, all the known names (AI, WCCH, TSP, AHP etc.) all do excellent work. I don't think that's much if a debate. It's just the Prices are just all over....a lot I guess has to do with location, what's out sourced, equipment. The guys that are out of California are the most expensive and the Mid East/west are lesser. People got to pay the bills and that's passed in to the customer. Having lived in California....everything is more expensive.
06-25-2016, 11:27 AM
