How restrictive is my top end and cam? 416 stroker
02-22-2017, 09:11 PM
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How restrictive is my top end and cam? 416 stroker Hello,
I just bought a C5 with a 416 LS3 stroker and it has the following:
Patriot Stage 2 243 heads (flow ~300cfm at .600)
FAST 78mm Intake, Stock LS1 TB, MAF
JBA Shorty Headers
220/224 .581/.581 114LSA Comp Cam
My first stage of mods will probably be replacing the top end with a 102mm MSD of FAST setup, but I was thinking of ditching the cathedral ports and getting stock LS3 heads and stock ls3 intake and selling all of my cathedral port stuff. Also, I will be getting longtubes as that should give me a considerable power boost.
Even with all of the restrictive parts, it still has amazing torque and pulls to 6k rpm, but I know it can be improved on a lot.
What would be the best budget build to help me get over 500rwhp? It currently makes 450rwhp/465rwtq
What power gains can I expect with longtubes and a ls3 top end with the same cam?
I just bought a C5 with a 416 LS3 stroker and it has the following:
Patriot Stage 2 243 heads (flow ~300cfm at .600)
FAST 78mm Intake, Stock LS1 TB, MAF
JBA Shorty Headers
220/224 .581/.581 114LSA Comp Cam
My first stage of mods will probably be replacing the top end with a 102mm MSD of FAST setup, but I was thinking of ditching the cathedral ports and getting stock LS3 heads and stock ls3 intake and selling all of my cathedral port stuff. Also, I will be getting longtubes as that should give me a considerable power boost.
Even with all of the restrictive parts, it still has amazing torque and pulls to 6k rpm, but I know it can be improved on a lot.
What would be the best budget build to help me get over 500rwhp? It currently makes 450rwhp/465rwtq
What power gains can I expect with longtubes and a ls3 top end with the same cam?
02-22-2017, 09:45 PM
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None to little!
A little But a Cam that's made for the Newer top end will be best. Go over .600 on Lift with a little more Compression. 11:0 to 12:0 as long as you have 93 octane with a Good tune. We can bleed off cylinder pressure with a little more cam and dial the LSA in to think it's smaller. With Duration Still under 242 degrees. The hell with the FAST or MSD get the heads ported and use the stock intake if you wanna get Fancy have Peak performance port it for 400 bucks and be done with a 102 T/b. For the MSD or FAST intake is a WASTE of 1k. I'm sure if they tested a *Ported Factory intake Vs the aftermarket it Would not be over 10 to 12 hp on a engine dyno. Reason said is I have a Factory Ls7 intake that needs porting and talked to Well known guy in the engine arena and was told yeah it will make more but @ 1k a Ported factory intake can do wonders while saving $ to have your heads ported.
A little But a Cam that's made for the Newer top end will be best. Go over .600 on Lift with a little more Compression. 11:0 to 12:0 as long as you have 93 octane with a Good tune. We can bleed off cylinder pressure with a little more cam and dial the LSA in to think it's smaller. With Duration Still under 242 degrees. The hell with the FAST or MSD get the heads ported and use the stock intake if you wanna get Fancy have Peak performance port it for 400 bucks and be done with a 102 T/b. For the MSD or FAST intake is a WASTE of 1k. I'm sure if they tested a *Ported Factory intake Vs the aftermarket it Would not be over 10 to 12 hp on a engine dyno. Reason said is I have a Factory Ls7 intake that needs porting and talked to Well known guy in the engine arena and was told yeah it will make more but @ 1k a Ported factory intake can do wonders while saving $ to have your heads ported.
02-22-2017, 09:57 PM
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Old mag I have that I remembered. I didn't read it as it's Old but a Factory intake was used and it's a factory cubed Ls3. I think they used the factory intake pretty sure of it.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/090...er-heads-swap/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/090...er-heads-swap/
02-22-2017, 10:12 PM
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"Bang for the Buck"
Factory CNC LS3 Heads (11.5;1 Comp)
Rick Crawford Ported LS3 Intake with factory 90 mm tb
Cam Motion HR specced by Kip for RPM Range
something like ( 235/245 .620"/.600" 114*+3*)
1 7/8" LTS
Should/Could make 550 RWHP with attention to details
With M6 and very drivable with a good tune.
Factory CNC LS3 Heads (11.5;1 Comp)
Rick Crawford Ported LS3 Intake with factory 90 mm tb
Cam Motion HR specced by Kip for RPM Range
something like ( 235/245 .620"/.600" 114*+3*)
1 7/8" LTS
Should/Could make 550 RWHP with attention to details
With M6 and very drivable with a good tune.
02-23-2017, 01:51 AM
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"Bang for the Buck"
Factory CNC LS3 Heads (11.5;1 Comp)
Rick Crawford Ported LS3 Intake with factory 90 mm tb
Cam Motion HR specced by Kip for RPM Range
something like ( 235/245 .620"/.600" 114*+3*)
1 7/8" LTS
Should/Could make 550 RWHP with attention to details
With M6 and very drivable with a good tune.
Factory CNC LS3 Heads (11.5;1 Comp)
Rick Crawford Ported LS3 Intake with factory 90 mm tb
Cam Motion HR specced by Kip for RPM Range
something like ( 235/245 .620"/.600" 114*+3*)
1 7/8" LTS
Should/Could make 550 RWHP with attention to details
With M6 and very drivable with a good tune.
02-23-2017, 04:35 AM
#7
Don't under estimate cathedral heads, I got a LS3 based 416 and with a pair of GM CNC L92 heads and FAST 102 intake and NW102 TB, along with a 239/250 cam made 468hp/421tq with a not so good streetability. I got tired of how my engine would surge at any rpm under 2k so I replaced the heads of a pair of relatively small 237 PRCs (cathedral) and small Cam motion cam (233/240 @ 116.5) and the car made 488hp/445tq with a very loose torque converter (9 in) and FAB 9 in rear end, all that and I can cruise at 1600 rpm all day long in overdrive. I think if that power was through a manual 6 sp, it would be at least 520hp to the wheels.
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02-23-2017, 07:27 AM
#8
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Wow!! What a interesting post^^^^
Do you have track numbers from the LS3 head/cam vs the smaller cathedral setup ?
Kamaro- is the surge gone now ?
Do you have track numbers from the LS3 head/cam vs the smaller cathedral setup ?
Kamaro- is the surge gone now ?
Last edited by Tuskyz28; 02-23-2017 at 09:30 AM.
02-23-2017, 06:09 PM
#9
Yes the surge is gone, I can cruise the car in 6th gear @1500rpm all day long with no surging what so ever. This cam is really good as it idles almost like stock! , and the PRC heads have enough air velocity to have more than 85% of torque right at the tip of your right foot (attached is the dyno graph).
04-01-2017, 03:25 PM
#11
What is the goal of the car? get some MM235s or TEA TFS235s with a Mamofied FAST 102/102 and a LLSR spec'd by Kip or Tony (MM). Enjoy the torque !!!
04-01-2017, 04:06 PM
#12
TECH Veteran
https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1351176-removed-l92-s-t-f-s-235-s-went-track.html
Old thread but it's good.... maybe it'll tell you the differencebetween the two.
Old thread but it's good.... maybe it'll tell you the differencebetween the two.
04-01-2017, 04:27 PM
#13
11 Second Club
I'd say.. on a 416? All the parts you mentioned are holding it back a bit.
Those heads are not the worst i've seen on a 416 but good heads are key. I am also a cathedral guy.
A 78mm opening with stock tb & stock maf? If it's a 01-04 c5 you'll have the z06 maf. You'll probably see 20+ hp getting your induction right. Any way to check the map reading to see the vacuum in the intake?
Long tube headers for more power.
That cam is pretty small/mild even for a 347.
As stated. It also depends on what you really want from the car. I bet that thing idles & drives very nice how it is. Good luck with it.
Those heads are not the worst i've seen on a 416 but good heads are key. I am also a cathedral guy.
A 78mm opening with stock tb & stock maf? If it's a 01-04 c5 you'll have the z06 maf. You'll probably see 20+ hp getting your induction right. Any way to check the map reading to see the vacuum in the intake?
Long tube headers for more power.
That cam is pretty small/mild even for a 347.
As stated. It also depends on what you really want from the car. I bet that thing idles & drives very nice how it is. Good luck with it.
Last edited by SoFla01SSLookinstok; 04-02-2017 at 06:58 PM.
04-02-2017, 12:07 AM
#15
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I'd say on a 416 all the parts you mentioned are holding it back a bit.
Those heads are not the worst i've seen on a 416 but good heads are key. I am also a cathedral guy.
A 78mm opening with stock tb & stock maf? If it's a 01-04 c5 you'll have the z06 maf. You'll probably see 20+ hp getting your induction right. Any way to check the map reading to see the vacuum in the intake?
Long tube headers for more power.
That cam is pretty small/mild even for a 347.
As stated. It also depends on what you really want from the car. I bet that thing idles & drives very nice how it is. Good luck with it.
Those heads are not the worst i've seen on a 416 but good heads are key. I am also a cathedral guy.
A 78mm opening with stock tb & stock maf? If it's a 01-04 c5 you'll have the z06 maf. You'll probably see 20+ hp getting your induction right. Any way to check the map reading to see the vacuum in the intake?
Long tube headers for more power.
That cam is pretty small/mild even for a 347.
As stated. It also depends on what you really want from the car. I bet that thing idles & drives very nice how it is. Good luck with it.
04-02-2017, 06:10 PM
#17
04-03-2017, 08:08 AM
#19
Bang for the buck, I'd go with LS3 heads every time for 400ci+ engines. For a mild street car application, i wouldn't even have them ported so as to keep the ports "small". Just give them a good a valve job, mill to the desired chamber volume, and run 'em. I did that on the set of L92's that are on my 440ci engine and I only have $600 into them including the cost of the heads, valves, and rockers.
In a more radical application, ported OEM LS3 castings have already been proven capable of 750hp+ at the flywheel in the hands of a capable cylinder head porter. You would have to spend a lot more money on a set of aftermarket cathedrals castings to make that kind of power.
In a more radical application, ported OEM LS3 castings have already been proven capable of 750hp+ at the flywheel in the hands of a capable cylinder head porter. You would have to spend a lot more money on a set of aftermarket cathedrals castings to make that kind of power.
04-03-2017, 09:23 AM
#20
10 Second Club
"Bang for the Buck"
Factory CNC LS3 Heads (11.5;1 Comp)
Rick Crawford Ported LS3 Intake with factory 90 mm tb
Cam Motion HR specced by Kip for RPM Range
something like ( 235/245 .620"/.600" 114*+3*)
1 7/8" LTS
Should/Could make 550 RWHP with attention to details
With M6 and very drivable with a good tune.
Factory CNC LS3 Heads (11.5;1 Comp)
Rick Crawford Ported LS3 Intake with factory 90 mm tb
Cam Motion HR specced by Kip for RPM Range
something like ( 235/245 .620"/.600" 114*+3*)
1 7/8" LTS
Should/Could make 550 RWHP with attention to details
With M6 and very drivable with a good tune.