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Old 06-27-2007, 08:06 PM   #1
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Default WTF is wrong here?

I have the TEA/TFS 235cc heads and I dynod the car and it made 525rwhp 497rwtq. What could be wrong? I took the LS6 heads and put these heads on and did not gain anything.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremym
I have the TEA/TFS 235cc heads and I dynod the car and it made 525rwhp 497rwtq. What could be wrong?
What cam and intake? Sounds like you have a good foundation, heads have proven to make the power...gotta be one of the above. I read where you tuned it without a WB, so I'm sure that is costing some power. I found my car to be VERY sensitive to AF changes vs HP.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo'd stang
What cam and intake? Sounds like you have a good foundation, heads have proven to make the power...gotta be one of the above. I read where you tuned it without a WB, so I'm sure that is costing some power. I found my car to be VERY sensitive to AF changes vs HP.
Cam is 244/248..612/615..112LSA and the intake is FAST 90 / NW 90. Well we tuned it but they said they thought the A/F was acting up. The problem is I did not gain anything from the head swap from LS6's
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo'd stang
What cam and intake? Sounds like you have a good foundation, heads have proven to make the power...gotta be one of the above. I read where you tuned it without a WB, so I'm sure that is costing some power. I found my car to be VERY sensitive to AF changes vs HP.
I agree the heads should be bad ***, but I dont what the problem is.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:34 PM   #5
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If it were my motor, I would change that cam and have that intake ported. You might not pick up anything, depends on how nice your LS6 heads were.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:34 PM   #6
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What are you spinning it to?
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:42 AM   #7
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I agree, a big part of the vengeance setup were the cubes, compression, and porting/port matching of the FAST 90. Honestly, 530rwhp and 500 rwtrq is nothing to be yelling at with the setup and size cam that you have. What is your compression? Lift of the cam?
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:56 AM   #8
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Need some more info on your setup..... comp ratio, pushrod length, intake ported, ect. Also, what is the drivetrain, I see M6, but what rear? And lastly, what kind of dyno?

I would probably start with the cam, but need to know more to really say. I thought I read you are running the HS rockers, correct?
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:34 PM   #9
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Usually when we didn't see change on the dyno from mods it was somehthing holding it back.

First I would look at the fuel system. Is the pump and injectors big enough? How about the lines and rails?

What kind of intake air system are you using? Could that be holding it back?

Headers, exhaust also but not too likely.

We would see the power go flat on the dyno. 90% of the time they customer didn't have enough pump. You could add fuel via the computer or Fuel pressure but it would still hit a wall.

Good luck!


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Old 06-28-2007, 02:13 PM   #10
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You might want to be a little more descriptive in your original post if you are trying to figure out what is wrong. As it has been said in this thread your #s are damn good for your mods..Also, the TFS heads have been proven many times now so I HIGHLY doubt it is in your heads.
Last time we talked you were going to have your bottom end rebuilt due to the guys not balancing your rotating assembly each time it blew up... I would start there and see what happens if I were in your shoes.

Goodluck and let us know if there is anything we can do for you.

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Old 06-28-2007, 08:45 PM   #11
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Sorry for not enough info.My comp is 11.8. Cam is 244/248..612/615..112LSA ,90mm lid ,SLP bellow, 90/90 unported, 42 lbs injectors, Aeromotive fuel pump, KOOK 1 7/8 LT with 3inch true duels and a stock 10 bolt. What cam should I use. With the TFS you dont have to use high lift cams but dur. should I go with. 250's or 260's.
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
You might want to be a little more descriptive in your original post if you are trying to figure out what is wrong. As it has been said in this thread your #s are damn good for your mods..Also, the TFS heads have been proven many times now so I HIGHLY doubt it is in your heads.
Last time we talked you were going to have your bottom end rebuilt due to the guys not balancing your rotating assembly each time it blew up... I would start there and see what happens if I were in your shoes.

Goodluck and let us know if there is anything we can do for you.

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My guys replaced a piston due to some issues. What cam do you think I should use? PM if it is a secret
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremym
Sorry for not enough info.My comp is 11.8. Cam is 244/248..612/615..112LSA ,90mm lid ,SLP bellow, 90/90 unported, 42 lbs injectors, Aeromotive fuel pump, KOOK 1 7/8 LT with 3inch true duels and a stock 10 bolt. What cam should I use. With the TFS you dont have to use high lift cams but dur. should I go with. 250's or 260's.



I'm not a big fan of the .060 honing, but we've gone back and forth on this quite a few times. Is the engine consuming any liquids? Coolant? Oil? Plugs look alright?
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:05 AM   #14
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I can almost guarantee you that it is the FAST intake unported. I would put a large wager that if you were to get it ported/ and port matched to your TFS heads, that you would pick up 25-30 rwhp and 20ftlbs depending on how good the job is. That would put you at 550rwhp which is awesome for your setup. Start there, because everything else in your setup sounds good, except the unported FAST 90.

Best Regards,
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremym
Sorry for not enough info.My comp is 11.8. Cam is 244/248..612/615..112LSA ,90mm lid ,SLP bellow, 90/90 unported, 42 lbs injectors, Aeromotive fuel pump, KOOK 1 7/8 LT with 3inch true duels and a stock 10 bolt. What cam should I use. With the TFS you dont have to use high lift cams but dur. should I go with. 250's or 260's.

a couple of things..... 1st: as stated, you need to port the intake to match the heads...... the TFS 235 port is MUCH different than that intake is stock. 2nd: cam may have been great for you rold heads, but I think it is lacking a little for the 235's....... they do not require crazy lift, but I would think something in the 250-254 on intake and 258-262 on exhaust would be about perfect........ Otherwise, those numbers are not bad, all other things considering


What are your ultimate goals with the car? How does it run? track times? Cant launch very hard on a stock 10bolt
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:39 PM   #16
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stop looking at peak numbers Jeremy. Look at the curve. If you picked up in the curve, then the intake is the problem. If you didnt pick up anywhere, then you have other issues. We assume (other then TEA BSing about flow numbers just to sell heads) that the heads flow better then Pete (RPM's LS6 heads) ......

look at the chart. also was it the same dyno? same temp? I personally think you need to find another engine builder.... I have seen and heard many issues with engines from that joint! There are fellas that charge the same rates but have 10x's the quality and knowledge as Watt...... LME, HKE, etc etc.....

Good luck.

and port the fast...... I am sure your intake is maxed thanks to good flowing heads.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:02 PM   #17
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I doubt that TEA is BSing about flow #s to sell heads. We just made 609rwhp on pump gas thru cats with a 440 and their 235s and ported FAST.

I agree that the intake needs to be ported and I would definately look into having the shortblock freshened up by a reputable shop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forteen3GT
stop looking at peak numbers Jeremy. Look at the curve. If you picked up in the curve, then the intake is the problem. If you didnt pick up anywhere, then you have other issues. We assume (other then TEA BSing about flow numbers just to sell heads) that the heads flow better then Pete (RPM's LS6 heads) ......

look at the chart. also was it the same dyno? same temp? I personally think you need to find another engine builder.... I have seen and heard many issues with engines from that joint! There are fellas that charge the same rates but have 10x's the quality and knowledge as Watt...... LME, HKE, etc etc.....

Good luck.

and port the fast...... I am sure your intake is maxed thanks to good flowing heads.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
I doubt that TEA is BSing about flow #s to sell heads. We just made 609rwhp on pump gas thru cats with a 440 and their 235s and ported FAST.

I agree that the intake needs to be ported and I would definately look into having the shortblock freshened up by a reputable shop.
Their bench is well known to be high. Then they tell you to send them back to show you they are what they are as the left TEA...instead of flowing them on another bench that is more in target. Flow numbers dont tell the complete equation anyway. They are a starting point. The heads do well. They are decent at that. They are not the pimp diggity of all heads. There are better LS6 ports out there that have cleaned house over the TFS heads on the same bench they were flowed on...ANd backed up by an engine dyno to verify that the LS6 heads were not just flow bench happy. With that said, this guy got sucked into the TFS heads being almight when they arent all cracked up to be what they are made out to be. Too many dyno queens live on her. Show some real track results. A well done cylinder head will clean house on those heads all day long. They are a good street heat but definitely not worth the money and exaggeration that they have been talked up to be.
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:17 PM   #19
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In my opinion, you should stop getting wrapped up in peak dyno #'s. People see 500+ rwhp 346's and then think that if they don't make 580 rwhp from their bigger cube motor, then it's a pos. I would do like everyone is saying and port + port match the intake.

Or you could just keep adding duration Why a 254/260 cam.. when you could do a 274/280. Your 244/248 cam is small, that's for a 346
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:47 PM   #20
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If you say so........

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOTFMAN
Their bench is well known to be high. Then they tell you to send them back to show you they are what they are as the left TEA...instead of flowing them on another bench that is more in target. Flow numbers dont tell the complete equation anyway. They are a starting point. The heads do well. They are decent at that. They are not the pimp diggity of all heads. There are better LS6 ports out there that have cleaned house over the TFS heads on the same bench they were flowed on...ANd backed up by an engine dyno to verify that the LS6 heads were not just flow bench happy. With that said, this guy got sucked into the TFS heads being almight when they arent all cracked up to be what they are made out to be. Too many dyno queens live on her. Show some real track results. A well done cylinder head will clean house on those heads all day long. They are a good street heat but definitely not worth the money and exaggeration that they have been talked up to be.
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:47 PM
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