ucmel8tr

To All,

I have been out of "hot street cars" for a while (since the late 80's) and I need some information to help me get back "up to speed", so to speak . . .

BACKGROUND:

The Vehicle is a 1995 Pontiac TRANS-AM (because I live in NC and all 1996 cars must pass Emissions Inspection) . . . (OBD-II & up is a "PITA" !) The LT1 will not reliably support anything above 396cid . . . So, it's gotta go !

I want to install either a Stroker LS1 or LS2 (427 cid or larger) . . . The car will be a Daily Driver, so reliability is critical, and see some Dragstrip runs on the weekends. The transmission is a TREMEC (GM/Viper) T-56 6-Speed with a Strange 12 Bolt housing 3.73 Gears . . . 91 - 93 Octane capability is a must . . .

QUESTIONS:

I am looking at AFR Heads (205cc or 225cc) . . . Any other suggestions ?

Camshaft will be a Solid Roller . . . Specs to be determined . . . Thoughts ?

Target HP . . . 450rwhp to 550rwhp, depending on reliability and longevity !

LS1 or LS2 Block ???

What are the advantages and/or disadvantages to using either motor ?

DRY Sleeves vs. WET Sleeves . . . Advantages vs. Disadvantages ???

Thanks, in advance !

Dave F
NC

Jakes Dad

Not that this is the correct and only way to go, and the fact that some folks at LS1 think I am crazy as well, I do have an answer.

I would stick with GM Performance Parts, or an after market kit CAM and HEADS combo. This will yield, in my opinion, the best performance gain. I don't like mixing heads from one person cams from another. Seen toooooooooooooo many unhappy racers. Normally these folks will assist you on a direct basis via visit, phone, e-mail, or fax.

There perhaps are also some vendors HERE supporting this board that might offer an answer. If that fails JEGS and SUMMIT will do the same.

When I think about NC, where you live, Mooresville and NASCAR is what comes to mind. You have hundreds of races shops, engine builders, in your back yard, use them.

Sigforty

If you want more than 383 CID then you can eliminate the LS1/LS6 block. It cost too much to resleeve the block to make more cubes. I would suggest and LS2/LS3/LS7 blocks. Those blocks are already wet sleeved and much easier to resleeve.

For a cheap route I suggest the 402 LS2 stroker or a 416 L92/Ls3 based stroker. You can put one of those together with the L92 heads and easily hit the 500 to 550 rwhp range. You will need to get a custom cam grind for whatever option you choose. I would not bother with the solid roller especially if you are daily driving the car. The HP gain would only be a big factor if you are reving the engine above 7k. You can easily make the hydralic rollers in the LS engines rev to just over 7k, and keep a lower maintenance engine.

FYI, I am running an LS6 based 383 stroker that makes 487 rwhp and with a better set of heads coming in a few months I am hoping to break 500 rwhp. If I would have built my engine after the L92 stuff came out I would have made at least a Ls2 based 402.

ucmel8tr

MARK,

Condolences on the loss of your '71 Stingray . . . I used to have a '69 427 4-Speed (I put the L-88 Solid Cam in it, Hooker Headers, etc.) . . . It was Blue Metallic with Black Interior . . . "Memories" ! ! !

You suggested an "LS3" based motor . . . I have just barely discovered the LS1 & LS2 and now LS3 "pops up" . . . More to learn !

I have read about the LS7 but have ruled it out for 3 reasons:

(1) Too Expensive . . . (Plus, I may want more then 427cid)

(2) Dry Sump Oiling System . . .

(3) Titanium Rods may not be long-lived on the Street . . . To many "Heat Cycles" for my sense of well-being . . .

QUESTION: What is an LS3 ???

Thanks for putting up with my dumb questions !

Dave F.
NC

nvmy2000ss

iTrader: (17)

you could hit your hp goals with a 408 n/a fairly easy. are you set on somthing that size? I would use the 225's for that size motor, you would only be choking it with the 205's.
good luck on your build and good to see that your geting back into the car scene agian.

Sigforty

The LS3 is the new engine in the 2008 corvette. Just do a search you should find some info on it.

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

LS3- Gen IV, 6.2l, actually uses the L92 Heads, with a bigger Intake.

Me personally, I am building a 402 Iron Block Stroker, L76/L92 Setup with a Custom Grind Cam. I found that to be one of the easiest and reliable setups to put together.
I plan to have it running sometime this week. It's goin into my 1995 Z28.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Welcome to the board! You picked the best tech-related LSX board on the Internet. There are several different options for a 427. You may want to consider a smaller-displacement as another option. I have a LS2 402 that has been great since day one. It runs great, is fast and is 100% reliable as a daily driver. Something else to consider is sticking with a hydraulic cam. It's the norm for your targeted power range. I spin mine to 7200 rpms with no problems.

If you insist on a sleeved 427, contact Jason at Katech or Steve at Racing Engine. Both are sponsors here and can give you expert advice.

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

An LS2 Darton dry sleeved block to build a 427 is the best bet for the power level/ price you are looking for. I've done several dry sleeved blocks that went into twin turbo engines making 950 to the wheels. AFR 225 heads, hydraulic roller cam around 248 252 degrees duration will get you 550+ at the rear wheels with good driveablity on the street.

The Darton dry sleeves will go to 4.190" bore normally aspirated and are long enough to support a 4.25" stroke. Max bore stroke will get you to 469". If you plan on putting a lot of miles on the motor between overhauls, stick with a 4" stroke.

Steve

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

402" blocks are very affordable and do not require sleeving. Add a good set of heads such as the AFR 225s and you'll get 500 rwhp with lots of torque and good manners without the need for a radical cam.

Big Bird WS6

iTrader: (9)

you can have any ls7 not dry sump.

john_sblendorio

iTrader: (4)

Steve, What would be the strongest block configuration for a 427 build?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

warhawk or lsx

racer7088

Dave you could do a dry-sleeved block like from Steve at RED and you get a bigger bore and he makes the cylinders longer for more support with more stroke. I have used him a lot and his work on the blocks is second to none. You can take one of these engines to 450+ inches and they run great.

The cheapest 427 I do is the L92 block one I have with a 4.100 crank and special pistons I have made and it has done very well too. there are a few of the guys in here running high 9s / low 10s NA with that setup too.

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

John,

If we are talking stock production blocks, the LS1 block with MID sleeves would be the strongest. All later production blocks have cast breather holes in the main webs making them weaker.

The LS2 LS7 blocks with Darton's dry Seal Tite liners are holding up very well. Some twin turbo engines are making 950 to the wheels in sand buggy applications using my blocks.

Out of all the blocks, I'd have to say the LSX block is the strongest. It is also the heaviest by far, roughly twice the weight of a sleeved aluminum production block.

There is a place for every available block and a block for every budget. The LSX would be best used in a very high horsepower drag only application. History tells us that siamese wall iron blocks don't cool very well in street applications. Street or street strip applications, and road racing, are where the aluminum blocks, whether production, Darton sleeved or Warhawk would be a better choice.

Steve

Oh4GTO

iTrader: (46)

Hey steve, would a dry sleeved LS2 427 be cheaper than a LS7 block?

KCFormula

iTrader: (4)

are blocks truely that prone to breaking? As far as I know the only people that have problem with well build sleeved blocks (not counting faulty sleeved blocks such as early MTI blocks) are those that spin high RPMs with a large stroke. I guess the sleeves tend to move around. If you aren't spinning 8k+ RPM or making 1k+ hp won't even a regular LS1 block hold up just fine?

C6Dude

I agree,
hydraulic cam for your power range and street use.
My LS2 402 spins to 7650rpm's with the comp 921 springs.
.
.

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

If you already have an LS2 block, it is cheaper to sleeve it. You end up with a much stronger cylinder wall that will go a lot bigger in bore size 4.190"max.

It runs $1,550 to machine the block, install Darton LS7 Seal Tite liners and deck. If the block is brand new it needs to be stress relieved. That adds $120 to the price. I can cut rod clearance notches as well if desired.

Steve

john_sblendorio

iTrader: (4)

It may be too soon to tell but how does the Warhawk compare to LS1/MID block? Is the above mentioned cost labor only or is does that include the sleeves?