Warhawk Sleeve And Deck Info
10-19-2007, 09:10 AM
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Warhawk Sleeve And Deck Info I've started this thread so as not to disturb fafnir's (LSX vs Warhawk blocks") thread which is a LSX / Warhawk comparison.
My intention is to post accurate info on Warhawk as there is apparent misinformation or speculation regarding sleeve/strength questions in that thread.
An excellent picture of Warhawk's cut-away bore can be found by going to the World site in my sig., click PRODUCTS then BLOCKS then WARHAWK and then click the INSTRUCTION SHEET button.
The bore has a register at the top, none at the bottom, the sleeve is a .0015" interference fit with oil o-ring. You can read it all on the I-sheet.
Here are views of:
Warhawks lower bore area showing top step and no bottom step:
Next is the same area in C5R:
Last is the cut-deck view of Warhawk showing the cylinder bore case with water jacketed around the perimeter.
In all our other block designs, our aluminum versions have handled an equal amount of power as our iron versions. When we designed Warhawk, racers sent us their broken blocks and we addressed all the issues which caused the destruction based on our experience with Merlin, Motown and Man O'War (and now, Hemi).
A final word; rather than speculate, please ask questions here or by PM and I'll get the answers. If I don't know the answer, I'll make one up.
Thanks for caring enough to ask.
My intention is to post accurate info on Warhawk as there is apparent misinformation or speculation regarding sleeve/strength questions in that thread.
An excellent picture of Warhawk's cut-away bore can be found by going to the World site in my sig., click PRODUCTS then BLOCKS then WARHAWK and then click the INSTRUCTION SHEET button.
The bore has a register at the top, none at the bottom, the sleeve is a .0015" interference fit with oil o-ring. You can read it all on the I-sheet.
Here are views of:
Warhawks lower bore area showing top step and no bottom step:
Next is the same area in C5R:
Last is the cut-deck view of Warhawk showing the cylinder bore case with water jacketed around the perimeter.
In all our other block designs, our aluminum versions have handled an equal amount of power as our iron versions. When we designed Warhawk, racers sent us their broken blocks and we addressed all the issues which caused the destruction based on our experience with Merlin, Motown and Man O'War (and now, Hemi).
A final word; rather than speculate, please ask questions here or by PM and I'll get the answers. If I don't know the answer, I'll make one up.
Thanks for caring enough to ask.
10-19-2007, 10:19 AM
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As I told you in PM a couple weeks ago, I'm selling my LSX short deck to a local guy and waiting on either the LSX iron tall deck or as I asked you already, maybe the tall deck WarHawk.
What is the longest stroke one could go with using the "tall deck" WarHawk and not have any oil burning issues at all from that stroke? TOTAL piston support.
Is the sleeve 5.8" long?
What would be the safe max bore with a progressive DP 300 shot? I'm talking about plenty of cylinder strength.
Only reason I would go LSX is for the larger bore possibilities while keeping its strength.
Thanks.
.
What is the longest stroke one could go with using the "tall deck" WarHawk and not have any oil burning issues at all from that stroke? TOTAL piston support.
Is the sleeve 5.8" long?
What would be the safe max bore with a progressive DP 300 shot? I'm talking about plenty of cylinder strength.
Only reason I would go LSX is for the larger bore possibilities while keeping its strength.
Thanks.
.
Last edited by Quickin; 10-19-2007 at 02:04 PM.
10-19-2007, 02:42 PM
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"What is the longest stroke one could go with using the "tall deck" WarHawk and not have any oil burning issues at all from that stroke?"
We are building the 481 with 4.500" and will warranty them for 2 years. We don't plan on oil issues. Please remember, we can't build every permutation and test to destruction. Our stuff is pretty mainstream and the fine builders on here can build monsters from our "raw material".
"Is the sleeve 5.8" long?"
The 9.8 sleeve is 5.940" installed.
"What would be the safe max bore with a progressive DP 300 shot?"
Don't know. We never built one, we don't spray and won't speculate.
"The sleeves are ductile iron ? are they centrifguly cast ?"
Yes, ductile and yes, centrifugally cast.
I was only kidding when I wrote I'd make things up.
We are building the 481 with 4.500" and will warranty them for 2 years. We don't plan on oil issues. Please remember, we can't build every permutation and test to destruction. Our stuff is pretty mainstream and the fine builders on here can build monsters from our "raw material".
"Is the sleeve 5.8" long?"
The 9.8 sleeve is 5.940" installed.
"What would be the safe max bore with a progressive DP 300 shot?"
Don't know. We never built one, we don't spray and won't speculate.
"The sleeves are ductile iron ? are they centrifguly cast ?"
Yes, ductile and yes, centrifugally cast.
I was only kidding when I wrote I'd make things up.
10-19-2007, 02:45 PM
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Thanx for taking the time to set the record straight.I also amended my post in the other thread to reflect current factual information.
"What is the longest stroke one could go with using the "tall deck" WarHawk and not have any oil burning issues at all from that stroke?"
We are building the 481 with 4.500" and will warranty them for 2 years. We don't plan on oil issues. Please remember, we can't build every permutation and test to destruction. Our stuff is pretty mainstream and the fine builders on here can build monsters from our "raw material".
"Is the sleeve 5.8" long?"
The 9.8 sleeve is 5.940" installed.
"What would be the safe max bore with a progressive DP 300 shot?"
Don't know. We never built one, we don't spray and won't speculate.
"The sleeves are ductile iron ? are they centrifguly cast ?"
Yes, ductile and yes, centrifugally cast.
I was only kidding when I wrote I'd make things up.
We are building the 481 with 4.500" and will warranty them for 2 years. We don't plan on oil issues. Please remember, we can't build every permutation and test to destruction. Our stuff is pretty mainstream and the fine builders on here can build monsters from our "raw material".
"Is the sleeve 5.8" long?"
The 9.8 sleeve is 5.940" installed.
"What would be the safe max bore with a progressive DP 300 shot?"
Don't know. We never built one, we don't spray and won't speculate.
"The sleeves are ductile iron ? are they centrifguly cast ?"
Yes, ductile and yes, centrifugally cast.
I was only kidding when I wrote I'd make things up.
10-19-2007, 04:08 PM
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Glad to help when I can guys.
Richard at WCCH posted the numbers and data on 7X about a month ago. I'll try to dig it out next week or you can search. We've just reassembled our broke SuperFlow (which Richard gave us advice about) and we'll be testing all our stuff. It's been broken forever-or so it seems.
Richard at WCCH posted the numbers and data on 7X about a month ago. I'll try to dig it out next week or you can search. We've just reassembled our broke SuperFlow (which Richard gave us advice about) and we'll be testing all our stuff. It's been broken forever-or so it seems.
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10-19-2007, 04:47 PM
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Well, instead of talking MAX bore, will the WarHawks 4.125 bore safely support a 300 progressive shot?
Also, I still can't get a reply from Bill. Can you PM me the price for your complete short block "tall deck" 481ci. Brands: Crank? Rods? Pistons? Bearings?
When can it ship?
Thanks.
.
10-19-2007, 05:12 PM
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Glad to help when I can guys.
Richard at WCCH posted the numbers and data on 7X about a month ago. I'll try to dig it out next week or you can search. We've just reassembled our broke SuperFlow (which Richard gave us advice about) and we'll be testing all our stuff. It's been broken forever-or so it seems.
Richard at WCCH posted the numbers and data on 7X about a month ago. I'll try to dig it out next week or you can search. We've just reassembled our broke SuperFlow (which Richard gave us advice about) and we'll be testing all our stuff. It's been broken forever-or so it seems.
I searched like crazy and couldn't find anything. The heads been around a while now and haven't read about any ported or as cast flowed warhawk LS7x heads yet...Any info would be nice. Like to bolt them up to my LSX block as they are the most affordable 6 bolt per cylinder heads out there.
Dan
10-19-2007, 07:44 PM
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What's the max bore for those sleeves in the WarHawk, "tall deck"?
Well, instead of talking MAX bore, will the WarHawks 4.125 bore safely support a 300 progressive shot?
Also, I still can't get a reply from Bill. Can you PM me the price for your complete short block "tall deck" 481ci. Brands: Crank? Rods? Pistons? Bearings?
When can it ship?
Thanks.
.
Well, instead of talking MAX bore, will the WarHawks 4.125 bore safely support a 300 progressive shot?
Also, I still can't get a reply from Bill. Can you PM me the price for your complete short block "tall deck" 481ci. Brands: Crank? Rods? Pistons? Bearings?
When can it ship?
Thanks.
.
We recommend 4.155" max bore which leaves .0625" wall. Period.
It's always your decision on how big you trust it for 300 shot. Cary and Eric at ET went to 4.180" on our block and made close to 900 N/A. It's always up to the builder to be prudent.
All the pricing is on the Engine Shop site. In your case-$7495 plus the required kits and studs. They're going up Dec 15th.
The parts for 481 are Callies, Callies Compstar, Manley and Clevite.
If it hasn't been sold today, it can ship Monday if paid in full cause we have one in inventory. Not sure of 24 or 58X tooth however. You must specify and also if you want a long snout for dry sump.If you have to wait for a build, about two weeks.
DanZ,
Sorry for the goose chase. I'll try to get Richard's data and hopefully he'll chime in here. As I recall, and I'm being diplomatic here- Richard is contracted to a competitor's head designs and they are excellent because of his work. He did say a comprehensive valve job (we sell them NVJ) and some mild chamber and port work should see them over 400. I did not ask for his endorsement but he did say they were a competent design and good raw material for serious flow.
Caution about bolting to LSX. As I hope you know the patterns are different. It can be done however and Bill had a thought to modify our castings to accomodate both but I don't think it's in the works yet. If you're a machinist you can figure it out, and if you're not some pros on here can do it.
I'll try to get on the flow data but I'm buried in Hemi stuff short-term.
10-20-2007, 12:54 AM
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Hey Merlin,
Love to go with a tall deck Warhawk (481ci), but I'm concerned about fitment issues in regards to the intake and headers in a C5 Vette.
Do you know anyone that has installed a talldeck on a C5?
Since the concerns in regards to the talldeck, I'm looking into your short-deck. I know you have a few 427's, but I was hoping for more cubes. How big of a stroke can you go with a short-deck? Will a 4.1 or 4.125 be installed w/o issues? What I'm hoping for is something around 440ci with a standard 4.125 bore.
I'm looking forward to installing a stout Warhawk motor in my Vette soon.
Thanks!
Tony
Love to go with a tall deck Warhawk (481ci), but I'm concerned about fitment issues in regards to the intake and headers in a C5 Vette.
Do you know anyone that has installed a talldeck on a C5?
Since the concerns in regards to the talldeck, I'm looking into your short-deck. I know you have a few 427's, but I was hoping for more cubes. How big of a stroke can you go with a short-deck? Will a 4.1 or 4.125 be installed w/o issues? What I'm hoping for is something around 440ci with a standard 4.125 bore.
I'm looking forward to installing a stout Warhawk motor in my Vette soon.
Thanks!
Tony
10-20-2007, 08:57 AM
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Tony and ring,
At the moment fitment of tall decks in street cars is problematic because of size and intake limitations. Our 7X heads would dictate sheetmetal or spacers. Headers are always a custom part of the project. We have a local customer who has purchased a 481 short (his third Warhawk project!) for Vette installation and if he returns comment, I'll gladly post his experience.
As for the 9.24, we have physically fit a 4.25 Eagle inside and it spun it without interference. Of course the rod/piston combination is problematic. So if you can figure a good combination for rod/stroke ratio, a 4.125 will fit. It's just not what we're going to build, sell and warranty to the public. The 4.25 in the tall deck is 454 and that's what we offer. We understand we can't be all things to all people. I've been told that some attention will be paid to a low deck combination bigger than 427 but we're not there yet.
I will (gladly) inform everyone here when that takes shape.
I strongly suggest that anyone considering a Warhawk view this Instruction Sheet. This is a "builders block" with many outstanding and UNIQUE features and looking at what you're considering is prudent and will answer nearly any question you may have.
http://www.worldcastings.com/documen...ck_warhawk.pdf
I've updated this sheet for over a year now as we discover and solve any issues or questions. This latest revision date is last month for example. If new procedures or info are added, you can always check back and find it there.
Of course, we prefer you buy a Warhawk, then you'll have a sheet of your own.
At the moment fitment of tall decks in street cars is problematic because of size and intake limitations. Our 7X heads would dictate sheetmetal or spacers. Headers are always a custom part of the project. We have a local customer who has purchased a 481 short (his third Warhawk project!) for Vette installation and if he returns comment, I'll gladly post his experience.
As for the 9.24, we have physically fit a 4.25 Eagle inside and it spun it without interference. Of course the rod/piston combination is problematic. So if you can figure a good combination for rod/stroke ratio, a 4.125 will fit. It's just not what we're going to build, sell and warranty to the public. The 4.25 in the tall deck is 454 and that's what we offer. We understand we can't be all things to all people. I've been told that some attention will be paid to a low deck combination bigger than 427 but we're not there yet.
I will (gladly) inform everyone here when that takes shape.
I strongly suggest that anyone considering a Warhawk view this Instruction Sheet. This is a "builders block" with many outstanding and UNIQUE features and looking at what you're considering is prudent and will answer nearly any question you may have.
http://www.worldcastings.com/documen...ck_warhawk.pdf
I've updated this sheet for over a year now as we discover and solve any issues or questions. This latest revision date is last month for example. If new procedures or info are added, you can always check back and find it there.
Of course, we prefer you buy a Warhawk, then you'll have a sheet of your own.
10-22-2007, 08:28 AM
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I knew i saved the link somewhere... Here's Richard's info on the warhawk lsx heads...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=694158&page=2
enjoy.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=694158&page=2
enjoy.
10-25-2007, 03:05 PM
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" strongly suggest that anyone considering a Warhawk view this Instruction Sheet. This is a "builders block" with many outstanding and UNIQUE features and looking at what you're considering is prudent and will answer nearly any question you may have.
http://www.worldcastings.com/documen...ck_warhawk.pdf
I'm actually quoting myself.
It's in there if you can do a little math.
http://www.worldcastings.com/documen...ck_warhawk.pdf
I'm actually quoting myself.
It's in there if you can do a little math.
10-26-2007, 08:33 AM
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Tony and ring,
At the moment fitment of tall decks in street cars is problematic because of size and intake limitations. Our 7X heads would dictate sheetmetal or spacers. Headers are always a custom part of the project. We have a local customer who has purchased a 481 short (his third Warhawk project!) for Vette installation and if he returns comment, I'll gladly post his experience.
As for the 9.24, we have physically fit a 4.25 Eagle inside and it spun it without interference. Of course the rod/piston combination is problematic. So if you can figure a good combination for rod/stroke ratio, a 4.125 will fit. It's just not what we're going to build, sell and warranty to the public. The 4.25 in the tall deck is 454 and that's what we offer. We understand we can't be all things to all people. I've been told that some attention will be paid to a low deck combination bigger than 427 but we're not there yet.
I will (gladly) inform everyone here when that takes shape.
At the moment fitment of tall decks in street cars is problematic because of size and intake limitations. Our 7X heads would dictate sheetmetal or spacers. Headers are always a custom part of the project. We have a local customer who has purchased a 481 short (his third Warhawk project!) for Vette installation and if he returns comment, I'll gladly post his experience.
As for the 9.24, we have physically fit a 4.25 Eagle inside and it spun it without interference. Of course the rod/piston combination is problematic. So if you can figure a good combination for rod/stroke ratio, a 4.125 will fit. It's just not what we're going to build, sell and warranty to the public. The 4.25 in the tall deck is 454 and that's what we offer. We understand we can't be all things to all people. I've been told that some attention will be paid to a low deck combination bigger than 427 but we're not there yet.
I will (gladly) inform everyone here when that takes shape.
Please keep me updated on the progress. Prefer to buy the setup once I have some assurance that it can be done w/o any major fitment issues in a C5 Vette.
Thanks Merlin
10-26-2007, 09:42 AM
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MerlinPro,
are your warhawk blocks stress relieved? e.g. should i cryo them? *can* i cryo the block?
will the liners distort if i cryo the block?
and if i really want to cryo the block, what parts should i install onto the block and cryo with the block? e.g. main caps? torqued down?
and on that topic, i'm most likely going to cryo the heads too
thanks again for the time
_
are your warhawk blocks stress relieved? e.g. should i cryo them? *can* i cryo the block?
will the liners distort if i cryo the block?
and if i really want to cryo the block, what parts should i install onto the block and cryo with the block? e.g. main caps? torqued down?
and on that topic, i'm most likely going to cryo the heads too
thanks again for the time
_
With all due respect to your thoroughness and budget, I don't think you need examine the sub-atomic molecular structure of anybodys block at a measley 1000 HP and 100,000 miles. Do you seriously plan to keep the project for so long a period?
ET, W2W and all the other expert builders on here routinely build 50 to 100% more power than that without such intense scruitiny. It's a fact of any stout builds' life that things be checked if not refreshed on a regular and prudent basis commesurate with abuse.
As explained previously, we have no experience with cryo, its' effects or results. Contact WJ or other Pro Stock champions who are familiar with the process-if you feel compelled to persue that.
Warhawk is not hipped because of it's material, pour qualities and systems. C5R is or was hipped, to my knowledge.