Johny GTO

I was reading this article, done on the LS1.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...onclusion.html

They used PRC stage 1 heads and Magic Stick 4 (MS4) cam bumped the LS1 to 544hp and 470+ trq.
That is a hell of a gain for $1k heads and $400 cam.

MY questions...
1. Does PRC have the equivalent of these heads for the LS2?
2. Do they have the Cam for the LS2?
3. if you add in the 50+ hp more that the LS2 comes with stock, you would be looking at near 600hp, correct?

Johny GTO

These would be my other cam ideas, with my limited knowledge. Street car, i like lots of low and mid range.

http://www.compperformancegroupstore...gory_Code=GEN3

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=166&catid=44

Bring the Noise

Texas Speed carries both the heads and cam.
Both components can be used on the LS2 engines.
I used Patriot Stage 2 LS6 heads and Lunati's LS1 Voodoo cam (222/228) in my 05 GTO's LS2.

Now getting a decent Idle will be interesting... as the Magic stick v4 is a large cam for a 6.0L motor. Magic stick v4 spec's at 239/242 with .649"/.609" and a LSA of 111.

Also note that test was an engine dyno with dyno headers not a rear wheel dyno inside a vehicle.
On average a GTO would see a 17 to 20% peformance loss when comparing Crank hp to Rear Wheel hp.
This is due to a combination drivetrain (2 piece drive shaft and IRS) and accessories (power steering, water pump, A/C, alt).

Using the 544 crank hp figure from the article you can estinate a worst case senario of a 20% loss for 435rwhp. Along with a best case senario of a 15% loss for 462rwhp.

Best case senario would include things like a 1 piece drive shaft, low friction fluids (trans and rear), and an underdrive pulley to reduce the drivetrain loss.

You would still need to have the supporting components to get the most out of the head & cam package. I.E. Tubes and a tweaked airbox (or a CAI replacement).

Johny GTO

Looking at it, the MS4 cam seems to large to use for good low end street use.
Seems like a smaller cam like u have would do better. However, i have an LS2 with 50+ more hp then the LS1 they tested on, so i would hope to do better on the power ratings.


Which cam would be advised?

Also, which heads would be better, the Patriot stage 2 ls6 heads above, or the TFS 215 or 225 heads?

Bring the Noise

The first cam (the comp stick) is a Solid Roller Cam thats a spec's as235/240 (@.050) with a lift of .646" intake /.641 exhaust - This is Not a street cam. It's a solid roller that will need .650" or .660" capable springs.

The second cam is TS's 224/224 (@.050) cam with .581" intake /.581" exhaust - This cam is considered a small cam for a LS2 and would give a decent gain with the right parts (should put you over 400rwhp with the right parts).

Cam's for a 6.0L
Small cam's for a 6.0L would be in the 212 to 224 range (intake and exhaust) IE 212/220 to a 224/228 would be small.
Medium would be 226 to 236 IE 228/232 to 236/240.
Large would be anything over a 238 @ .050 for the intake lobe (Magic Stick, Hellion, etc).

Tuning...
The small cam's only need a little tweak to the stock tune to get the idle and low (daily driving) rpms dialed in. - IE minor changes to the tables.
The medium size cam's are a little harder to tune and sometimes low rpm daily driving ends up jerky - need either a good tuner or to be very proficient with the tuning tables for a dialed in tune.
The Large cam's for a 6.0L typically need a damn good SD tune and will need an experience tuner to get the low rpm daily driving setting to acceptable. That or you'll spend a week plus in the HP Tuner forum trying to getting help for your daily driving rpm tables... blah

Now other things to consider.
The 224/224 cam you listed from Texas speed would be an easy upgrade for both tuning and daily driving. You could get away with the 224/224 cam along with a set of comp 918 springs and a retune.
The springs would be needed due to the cam's lift.
The stock LS2 springs are good to .575". Since the TS 224/224 has a lift of .598" you exceed the stock LS2 springs capability so a set of comp's 918's which handle up to .625" of lift would be an inexpensive upgrade to match the cam. This means the $400 cam upgrade needs $200 worth of springs to go along with it.

Then throw on another $100 for push rods. Then throw in the cost the shop is going to charge for the spring change and get your total price. Now compare to the price of a head & cam package with springs already installed along with new push rods...

Thats why I ended going with the Patriot Stage 2's -vs- a spring, pushrod, ti retain upgrade. The cost for the Comp package that is the ti retainers, 918 springs and new push rods is around $500 to $550

Bring the Noise

If I had to do it over again I'ld go with a set of TFS 215's, Fast 90, and the voodoo stage 3 (232/238).

The 222/228 didn't even need a tune for idle but I needed a tune for the low rpm driving (25 to 30mph in 4th was jerky with the stock tune).


Or a L92 head/L76 manifold with a custom cam that would be slightly smaller then SDParts CRA144HR00123 stick (236/244, 0.624"/0.590", 114). Actually If I could I would mix the lobe size of the CRA144HR00122 with the lift of the CRA144HR00121 (ie 228/236 and 0.585/0.590) and cut the LSA down to 113.

If I had the money I'ld go with a 416 with L92/L76 top end and the CRA144HR00123 cam... but I don't have 9k to toss around.

Johny GTO

which would be good for 500+rwhp\500rwtq in a street car?
the TFS 215-225 heads seem good, as do the PRC stage 2-2.5 heads. but what do u think of the cam (Voodoo stg 3)?
Isnt that Cam a bit large for the street? Would it have good low and mid power?
I am honestly not interested in revving the engine much higher the 6k, so i dont need a cam delivering power at 6.5-7k. I want it to kick in as low as possible.

Bring the Noise

Unfortunately if you want to hit 500+ rwhp with the stock cubes you are going to need a large cam. And it will sacrifice some low and mid rpm torque.

500+ rwhp naturally aspirate and daily driveable. For that I would suggest a 402 stroker kit along with a top end.

You could go with a ATI pro charger or something similar and keep the stock bottom end. Keep the driveability but you would need to fatten the tune to keep from burning through the stock pistons.

Even with the LS3's 6.2L 500+ rwhp isn't that easy and I am not sure how daily drivable the LS3 with 500+ are.

Johny GTO

ok. well forget my greed. Lets shoot for the highest rwtrq (primary) and rwhp (second) we can attain without sacrificing trq to get the hp number higher on the cam.

Johny GTO

this looks tasty. Anyone have any experience or opinions??

http://www.vengeancerd.com/Item4.html

Bring the Noise

Vengance Racing's TFS/Fast combo... It looks like a good combo, but I have no idea what the price is for that setup.

Bring the Noise

Mix and Match kit... I have no idea how it would Idle but it if tuned property it should put down decent numbers.

Yella Terra 1.7" L92 roller rockers - $436 (New Era)
Lingenfelter GT19 cam (spec's 227/239 .640"/.650" 114 LSA for 1.7" rockers) - $365 (Lingenfelter)
LS2 Port Works Ported L76 manifold and 90 Throttle Body - $900 to $1000 (this includes the price of manifold kit from SDParts). LS2 port works & SDParts.
PRC L92 Heads 65cc chamber size + LS3 hollow valves + PRC Double Springs - $1,489.99 (Texas Speed).
Fly cutting your pistons $??? (I don't know if Piston to Valve Clearance would be acceptable with that cam in a LS2 stock piston).
You would still need to figure out the install and Tuning price/prices. Those will depend on your dyno and instal shop's rates.

Note: The Lingenfelter cam is designed for the LS7 and list's on there site as a .678"/.688" lift with 1.8" rockers. With the 1.7" Yella Terra's the lift would drop down to .6403"/.6497" when rounded to the 1000th it lists as .640/.650.

The cam lobe's are not that big compared to other cam's, but the lift is hella bad even when put together with a 1.7" rocker arm.

Like I stated the pistons might need to be flycut to work with that cam. Hmm I wonder if the PRC L92 heads can be upgraded with Patriot's .660" spring kit as that exhaust valve is pushing .650 with that cam.


Disclaimer: this is just a theoretical Top end build for a stock LS2 bottom end. I've never seen it built and have no idea if it would actually work or if it would break the motor

Johny GTO

i appreciate your time and effort mang. thanks alot.

Johny GTO

Hey man. I have decided to go with the PRC stage 2.5 LS6 heads, as they are great performance\value heads.

As for cam, Lingenfelter GT19 cam (spec's 227/239 .640"/.650" 114 LSA for 1.7" rockers) - $365 (Lingenfelter), can this cam go with these heads? What about a smaller LSA for a choppier idle?

Johny GTO

nevermind, i think i found my torque monster cam

Zturd

iTrader: (12)

Not HIjacking but I was curious of the same things with one last question.
LSA "lobe seperation" i know the lower you go (111) vs (114) the choppier the idle the more overlap. Whats the benifits and draw backs of higher or lower LSA's??? I know that a higher LSA is better for nitrous to keep the explosion inside for a harder hit.
thanks for any input

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

The stage 2.5 PRC heads should work very well on that ls2. The extra bore on the ls2 will really like the bigger valves the stage 2.5 head offer.

Let us know how they do on the dyno!

Johny GTO

i shall, i have found a nice cam that gives gobs of toreu, and have the graph to post comparing many cams.
However, the cam dies abit at the high end, which i dont like. I hope to post up the cam specs and graph soon to show u guys what i mean, so hopefully u all can help me spec a cam out that will eliminate this problemo.
be back shortly.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Let us know the cam specs Johny, we'll make sure we configure your cylinder heads for the best possible compression based off the clearance restraints that camshaft provides.

Abdullah

iTrader: (2)

get the CNC 215cc TFS heads hand finished by a good porter mine are lightly hand finished to 218cc, i didn't want a big intake/exhaust ports just higher velocity ports.