LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

I am new to this engine and its performance

I made a thread in the Gen III section, but have decided to go with a 402...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/864708-383-346-a.html

Im considering reliability and driveability over power, since Now I have bigger cubes to work with..

Im going to be using my 5.3 stage 2.5 heads on a 402 assambled bottom end from TSP...

I just wanna know what cam I should go with for good street manners and having a reliable car. Im going with a 11.2 or so CR, with the heads and gasket choice of .040" and -10cc pistons...

For me personally a Torquer 3 in a LS1 with 3.73s(M6) with the 5.3 heads wasnt very driveable for a DD... So I want a cam with better manners than that, for the 402...

what sounds like a good solid cam..

I plan on running it N/A and want around 520whp if possible please...

maybe... and thats a maybe, Ill plan on nitrous or FI, in the later future....

Im gonna be running 7.4 hardened pushrods, caddy lifters, YT rockers, which may get switched back to my LS1 rebuilt rockers from Harland sharp... Are these valvetrain components acceptable in the 402 and the cam size I plan on running?

thanks for all the help

See5

iTrader: (53)

Why not ask TSP?

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

If you thought the T2 was too radical for a daily driver you're not going to build a 402 w/ those heads and make 520 RWHP with the drivability you're looking for.

My $.02

HEMIETR

iTrader: (2)

As the old saying goes. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

landonew

Here is what you do. Trade in those heads for some AFRs, TFs, or ETPs. Get a Fast 90/90 and decent LTs. Keep the compression the same. This will allow you to do a milder cam, and still get the performance you want. Otherwise, you will have to go BIG cam and even then it's a shot in the dark getting to 520rwhp. There was a thread on here, and the average 402 was dynoing at just over 500 rwhp.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

I would agree with that as well.

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

What is too radical??? What I mean by radical isnt the torque pull or anything... what I mean is how undriveable it is at low RPMs, and thats all I meant by radical. Maybe it was a wrong choice of words...

basically I dont wanna feel like the car is gonna stall if Im under 1500 rpms, as which the Tv3 car felt like it was gonna do...

gold98Z28

iTrader: (7)

sounds to me like you need a better tuner for your setup. alot of so called 'PRO' shops sell some really haked up tunes. really big cams are not gonna drive 100% stock and have 0 glitches but a good tune will make it very much driver friendly. if you want those kind of numbers you are gonna have to have a pretty agressive cam, or alittle spray.lol

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

As overlap and duration go up, drivability suffers. To what degree depends somewhat on the skill of your tuner but regardless a cam with 5 degrees of overlap is always going to drive better than a cam with 20 degrees. As I and others have said it's going to take not only a BIG cam but the right cam to MAYBE reach you RWHP goal. Still, it's not going to drive anywhere near as well as your current cam.

Take some time, read what's offered here and talk to as many SMART people as you can.

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

I understand, but if a driveable 500rwhp N/A LS1 can be built, Im pretty sure a much more driveable 520whp 402 can be built, without going to crazy with CR..

All m saying is, gimme some numbers... whats a mild cam for a 402, similar to what a 224/224 would be like to a LS1...

What is a big cam for a 402, similar to what a MS4 or T rex would be for a LS1?

I am lost in how camshafts specs should look for this engine, I am planning to build..

I dont see how from 430rwhp through a LS6 manifold and 2 mufflers and moser 12 bolt. why I cant get 90 more rwhp, with a better intake manifold (thinking of fast 90/90) , 1 more liter of cubes to work with, more compression ratio.. from 10.75 to 11.2....

of course a bigger cam, but I dont want it to equate to how my Tv3 felt with the LS1...

Im fine with the pull, in fact, more of it is desired. Im not afraid of power. I drove my car for a day and got sick of how I had to rev so high to make power... was my tune really that bad? My tuner was recommended by quite a few people, and said it was worth driving 80 miles for it, and so I did....

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

I though if I want a big cam, more compression is my friend. I mean I want to run a big cam, but with less compression, itll be less driveable..

So the reason im going with a higher compression ratio, is to run the biggest cam I possible can, without sacrifing a lot of drivability...

I really dont see how 520rwhp is such a hard goal to achieve.. people with 383s are doing so and even a few with LS1s..

and the biggest thing eating up RWHP for me is my 12 bolt. other than that I have an aluminum Driveshaft, Aluminum FW, underdrive pulley, etc..

I made 432rwhp through those and LS6 manifold.. and with a fast 90/90 Im sure I would have exceeded 440rwhp... with my current setup..

I dont wanna spend a lot of money, thats why I was planning on keeping the 5.3 heads, But if its gonna make such a huge difference, how will I go in and trade em in for some other heads?


I can go my cheapest route, take apart the LS1, change my reluctor wheel, polish the crank, replace bearings, maybe replace rings...

or the most expensive

go with a 427 long block...

But Im trying to keep it in the middle, and as cheap as possible. But I see it worthless to rebuild my old block as a 346 or 383, since I found out the 5.3s will work just fine on a 402, thats why I said to myself. Id rather spend a little more and get more cubes, plus Ive always preferred a larger bore than the 3.9 bore the LS1s have..

MyGoatBites

iTrader: (1)

I am putting the cam out of my 403 up for sale when it comes out. It is a little too much for my 5000+ lb tbss, buit it would be great for you.

234/240 .600 .600 110+4 idles and drives nicely. Idles at 925 with an auto and a 3000 stall. It has a fairly lumpy idle, but drives nice.

Here is a clip http://www.youtube.com/awdls2

HEMIETR

iTrader: (2)

The higher up in the HP range you get, the more money it cost per HP. FWIW, I'm sure you can find a happy dyno to get you to your numbers.

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

http://www.sdparts.com/product/12569...eManifold.aspx

Will a Ls7 intake fit the 5.3 heads? the and does it outflow a Fast 90/90?

edit:

I hope my exhaust works well with the 402 also, Im not looking to spend a lot, as mentioned. I just wanna get my car running again and instead of a rebuild I thought Id get a 402(mentioned also) But I am not hoping to change boltons parts at the moment, such as headers, and exhaust... Maybe, just maybe the Fast 90/90 combo from TSP, unless the LS7 intake flows better and adapts to my heads... I even need a new MAF...

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

The most drivable cam I have used in a 402 was 5 years ago and it was a 236/236 114+4 .580/.580 and it still made over 500 RWHP, this guy eventually went to a much bigger cam and didn't really pick up much power.

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

Ok here's a start...

the 236/236 cam has even less lift than the Tv3 Im using, so it seems pretty small...

what ratio gears were you running with this cam?

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

I made my 432rwhp through a dyno dynamics dynamometer, which fromwhat I heard is close to a mustang dyno, but still more forgiving on numbers...

I want to make about 520whp,but if I dont its not the end of the world... Im fine with spinning the motor to 6500rpms. but Id rather peak at 6000 - 64000 anywhere in that range is fine. I just am not looking for a peaky cam that makes peak power at 6800rpm or more.. although I wouldnt mind revving that high, just I dont want that to be my peak... Just like on my LS1 I made peak Hp at 5600 rpm, but I still went to 6000 - 6200 rpm when I shifted

Basically, what kind of numbers am I looking at if I wanted to have a driveable street car through a M6 402m with a tame cam with 3.73s... and lets say I went with a fast 90/90...


I mean why am I bashing the Tv3? maybe because when I was stock with boltons, I was pretty quick I guess, But I was really used to that speed.

then suddenly I jumped from 360whp to 430whp a 70rwhp increase.. and I already got used to that power the one day I drove it, in addition to that I sacrificed low rpm drivability... So thats what disappointed me then..

So bigger cubes Im hoping for, more drivability at the same time and more power, so I wont get used to it for a while..

Maybe I need to go drive a top fuel...

gold98Z28

iTrader: (7)

if it were me building the engine, i would have the short block compleat sitting in front of me with the final head choice ready to bolt on. then measure what is the safest max lift you can run with your piston to head clearance, then look for a cam in the mid 240's duration and as close to the max lift you can get. as for LSA the wider the better street manners. get a grind on a 113-114 will be much friendlier to tune and drive than one with a tighter LSA. will sacrifice a couple of peak horsepower for more power under the curve and better bottem end. thats my $2.50

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

agreed, I want something in the neighborhood of 112-114 LSA and agree with some under the curve hp, vs only peaky...

But how cam I tell if the lift is fine? TSP assured me the -10cc pistons have deep enough valve reliefs to run about any cam I desire. and since im not going too agressive, I think I should be fine....., this with a .040" gasket and the 5.3 stage 2.5 heads I believe I wanna use. unless someone would swap a better flowing head with me.. all of it should be fine for PTV clearance.

Oh and with all that listed, that should achieve about 11.2 CR...

See5

iTrader: (53)

Back to my original post -why not have TSP spec the cam for their short block, then have them tune it then you have one source responsibility?