subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

It seems the aftermarket isn't yet caught up to the new VVT L92s.
To me (not that I'm a pro engine builder) variable cam timing is a huge bonus.
I'm trying to decide if I should keep the VVT on my L92 swap, or just put in a conventional cam to make more power and have easier aftermarket support.

My hope is that if I keep the VVT, eventually more/cheaper parts will become available (cams, harnesses, etc).

I don't plan to rev the wee out of mine. I want good low end, mid range, and above all else---> reliability.

I'd love to hear some (more educated/experienced) opinions and generate discussion on the VVT thing.

Do big things lie ahead for GM VVT?

Are there any reliability issues w the VVT itself?

I'm all ears

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

I've been thinking along the same lines, & off the top of my head, the things that come to mind are:

* Additional complexity (more ways that an engine can fail, & possibly more time needed to troubleshoot);
* Need for specialized parts, & thus higher costs (at least initially);
* Limited-to-no aftermarket (at least initially).

Now I believe that two of those three are time-dependent, meaning that as time passes, they'll be less & less of a factor. And since I'm planning on buying a shop manual for an '08 Escalade anyway, the troubleshooting issue isn't a huge deal for me...

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

I'm in total agreement TK!

I'm thinking though, even if the cam phaser fails, it would be harmful to performance, but not catastrophic to the mechanicals, right?
(I think my old English teachers would call that a run-on sentence)

And I'm also w/ you in thinking the aftermarket will eventually catch up.
Especially if GM does more of this VVT stuff.

mikeith

you can still use ls series based cams w/ the vvt cant you?

MastMotorsports

We have been running VVT here for almost two years now. The gains down low in the power band are substantial to say the least. The link below shows some testing that we did for a direct comparision of VVT vs. fixed cam applications

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=vvt

As far as the aftermarket catching up goes...we are here already. We just released our ECM/Harness Packages that come fully calibrated for L92 applications.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/909619-mast-motorsports-releases-m-90-ecm-pacakges-yes-vvt-capabilities.html

If that is not enough power for you, we have our Mast Motorsports M-90 Performance Packages. This includes everything in the ECM/Harness Package as well as the VVT camshaft and other components required for the power upgrade. These packages come fully calibrated (NO TUNING REQUIRED!!!) and produce proven power numbers from our SuperFlow SF-902 NSCR Engineering Grade Dyno. The L92 HO package made 530HP and the L92 SS package made 545HP. The L92 SS Power Package went 10.99@122 in our 3400Lb. test car this year in Memphis at the LSX Shootout.

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/page....Packages&id=70

As far as reliability goes, we have countless hours of brutally hard testing on the dyno. We also have road tested it in our shop car, off-road applications, and marine applications. We view it as a stout system.

All things considered, we see it as a great advantage to guys who drive their cars because it improves the torque in the RPM range that is typically driven in. At the track, it allowed us to run a 3200 stall in our shop car to keep it bearable to drive and still cut good 60' times.

People often ask us about fuel mileage advantages. We are planning on testing this, however, at this point we have no hard data to say, "Yes, this definetly improves your fuel mileage." It does stand to reason though that the VVT is improving volumetric efficiency across the RPM range...which produces more torque...so we are expecting some interesting results on this study.

Feel free to ask any other questions that may be out there.

Thanks,

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com

drain89

iTrader: (13)

How complicated is it to do this conversion on an 02 ws6?
I already have the L92 crate engine.
The wiring has me concerned. Exactly whats involved?

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Mast should bee able to answer that. Thsy have a thread on here somewere about their L92 F-body (I forget if its a T/A or Formula).

MastMotorsports

Whenever we did this swap to our test car we had three wires to splice into the factory harness under the dash and two for the fuel pump. We also had to wire up the electric fans to work with our fuse/relay box, but it was no big deal. The thread of our test car can be seen at the link below:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-swaps/860429-mast-motorsports-l92-ho-f-body-vvt.html

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Here it is:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860429

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

The other Shaun beat me!

drain89

iTrader: (13)

Thanks guys! Shaun...I'll be in touch with you.

briannutter

GM spent a lot of money on the phaser development. for 99% of us, it will be fine and the Tuners are going to go crazy with it within a couple years. With the I-vtec guys and the double Vanos BMW guys, I've had customers advance the holy-heck out of the intake cams. 50 degrees of swing and torque (dynamic compression) goes through the roof in the midrange. We're seeing 430+whp road race naturally aspirated 3.2 liter 6 cylinders now.

Octane can become an issue with the compression ratio's we're used to now if a guy pushes it that far. On the other hand, if you want to run on 87 octane, tune the cam so it's retarded and dynamic goes down along with the necessity for high octane.

There is another issue. Really deep valve pockets are needed when a big aftermarket cam AND the phaser are working together.

What's going to be really interesting is both lobes are stuck on the same shaft-have fun picking the best exhaust lobe and lobe seperation now. We're all going to be getting good at disecting individul opening and closing points.

-Just wait for GM to give us a rotating clamshell style intake manifold like BMW

Also, for the guys at Mast, what are your thoughts on the assembly at 8500+ rpm. Sounds a bit crazy now, but I don't think it will be within 3 years. Do you guys have any thoughts on the assemblies rotating weight and any additional strain on the timing chain?

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Good grief... If anything even roughly comparable happens with the L92 engines, we're going to have people finding the limits of the block - in naturally-aspirated form! - pretty darn quickly...

EDIT: I just did the math - that's a little over 2.2 hp per cubic inch. Meaning that if the L92 engine was somehow able to duplicate that, we could see engines that make 832+ hp - WITHOUT a power adder..!
(Yes, I know there are a lot of other factors that come into play - but still...!)

That flexibility is one of the biggest reasons that I spent the extra coin on this engine...

And yeah, I know that (by keeping the engine stock for now) I'm giving up some power in the short term - but MAN OH MAN is it gonna run like an unholy beast in a couple years...!!!

Thanks for posting that Brian!

Dom

iTrader: (2)

Very impressive. I would definitely get a VVT engine when mine takes a dump. I hate the cam shake and obnoxious noise that comes with modding a regular engine. Been there done that. Maybe I'm getting old, but I want a silent powerful car on the street.