black_knight

iTrader: (1)

The rules state that entrants must use DOT tires in the back. That makes sense, as these are supposed to be "street cars."

But you can run any tire up front (i.e. skinnies). That makes no sense at all! Not only is that not legal to do on the street, but all of the manufacturers of skinnies say "don't do it, track only, it's dangerous, they're not meant for that, your warranty is void, etc, etc."

The whole point behind the operation (i.e. a competition for legit street cars) is ruined by this. I think next year they should require DOT tires on all fours and make this competition legit again.

GM Muscle

iTrader: (9)

Do you know how many guys run around the streets on front runners? I think that's getting alittle picky. Then they would have to make another rule to run DOT wheels too. There are alot of us running DOT front runners but most 15x3.5" wheels are not DOT legal. How many cars there do you think could actually pass a full inspection anyway?

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that's the point: to eliminate that. I know people do it, but they're all fooling themselves. That stuff isn't legit street car gear. The manufacturers all warn how dangerous it is to run those up front on the street and how they aren't designed for it. I for one take them seriously.

That's much trickier, since inspections vary state to state. I think they already have a requirement that the car must be registered and therefore passed inspections. I don't know if they have anything in place to check that they haven't altered the car since inspection, though.

The bottom line is that this is a question of what the purpose of the Pump Gas Drags is, and if running skinnies up front violates that purpose. From what I read of the rules and of their mission statement, this policy is IMHO a contradiction of their stated purpose.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

No one wants to read about or watch 12 second cars.

So they allow some stuff thats not "street leagal"

N20 is not street legal but lucky for me they allow it

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

I think you'd still see 9 second cars with DOT slicks on all fours... maybe even stuff in the 8's. What I don't want to see is people winning "street car" competitions with something that is in no way a street car. That's the whole point of this competition; they make it very clear in all the rules and descriptions that the purpose is to find "legit" cars.

I'm not going to make this a N20 argument because that'll turn into a flame war right quickly.

(puts away 10 ft pole)

Muerte_X

iTrader: (1)

Well, ET streets are DOT legal too. I think it's probably more along the lines of streetable rather than a something like an everday street car on normal radial tires.

Something that fill up on pump gas, drive to the track, run, and drive home. Not necessarily completely street legal, otherwise you'd only be seeing a lot of stock cars running each other, since almost any mod you do you car isn't legal.


If there's too many rules and restrictions, a lot of people that would normally particpate won't, keeping it simple is the best way.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Precisely. By "DOT legal" I didn't mean to imply radial tires (though they have a separate class for that). You can still run slicks and be DOT legal, just not skinnies.

Muerte_X

iTrader: (1)

They might be dot legal, but you can check the site and see that they're not recommended for normal driving either. They're basically slicks, besides, skinnies won't make a huge difference, maybe a couple of tenths. It's not something to get that worried about IMO.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I see that they're not at all practical for most street driving, but I have to pick my battles here.

93LS1RX7

iTrader: (8)

They do have skinny tires that are regular street tires. My friends run them. They are just cheapies that have a like H speed rating.

The reason they allow "skinnies" is probably because it isnt safe to take a spare tire or a 125 tire and run 160mph on it.

They would rather have a skinny that isnt going to blow out at 130mph than a radial tire that does.

What you are saying is you would rather a guy run a donut spares than a "skinny"? Donut spares are street legal but you have to use some common sense. Because this is what racers do....push the edge of safety and the rules for more speed.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

No, I'm advocating no skinnies; i.e. actual tires.

93LS1RX7

iTrader: (8)

So then how thin? They make ACTUAL tire that are only 135 and are about 4.5" wide. See where the problem lies if you try to regulate it....

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

That is a problem. How about "at least as wide as from the factory?"

The point is that every manufacturer I've ever seen has emphatic and repeated warnings all over their wheels that say "don't run these on the street." So it seems kinda wrong to allow them in a "legit street car" competition.

Anonymous

M/T makes street legal front skinnies.

They are bias ply and they are DOT legal with legit tread and all.

Nice tires, but a little heavier than their racing skinnies.

I run them on the front, with M/T drag radials on the rear.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I have the MT 8 ply DOT fronts on my car.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Well, okay then. Is there any reason not to require DOT tires on all fours, then?

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

You want them to regulate a wheel/tire combo at least as wide as it came from the factory? Thats a really stupid idea. There are plently of 15x4/15x5 wheels that are DOT legal, and most of the people i see that run a skinny use a DOT approved tire anyways...so really what are you complaining about? Actually as far as I am concerned, your whole gripe here is poorly thought out. 1st...older cars came with skinny factory wheels...some in 5-6inch width, newer ones come in 8-10 inch, so if you would try to regulate your bad idea it would be an unfair advantage. 2nd...Every state has different inspection regulations/laws...to start making silly regulations to have a car that would need to pass a true 100% compliant inspection, this would give a distinct advantage to the cars that reside in the more leniant states as well. 3rd...Like already stated there are ALOT of skinny wheel and tire combinations that are DOT legal, so why are you stuck on having NO skinnies?

Heck if were gonna start putting stupid regulations on everything, we might as well start micro-classing everything, and that would lead everyone that races to have practically identical cars...sounds like fun right?

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

1) If there are DOT approved skinnies to run, then the competition for “legit street cars” should AT THE VERY LEAST require that everyone run DOT legal tires on all fours.

2) As a separate point from the above, I don’t think it is “legit street” to run wheels that are not recommended/approved for street use. Go read Weld and Bogart’s web sites; they say DO NOT USE THESE ON THE STREET.

Okay, you have a point there. I hadn’t thought that out. If some cars come with factory skinnies, then limiting cars to a factory width won’t work. I guess the only way to do it would be to have a minimum set width.

But that is already the case. The rules already require that the car be registered and so those who live in more lenient states already enjoy this unfair advantage.

That’s not a fair evaluation. Just because I’m advocating adding a rule for a specific reason doesn’t mean that I want to add thousands of rules and make everyone the same. That doesn’t at all follow from what I’ve said. I made it quite clear that I was basing my thoughts on the mission statement of the pump gas drags: to race legitimate street cars.

To run wheels that say all over them NOT SAFE FOR THE STREET and WARNING WARNING DO NO USE ON THE STREET and WILL GO IN A STRAIGHT LINE ONLY and WARRANTY VOID IF YOU DON’T TRAILER THE CAR TO THE TRACK…. Well, that just doesn’t strike me as fitting in with the whole “legit street car” thing.

1bad71

it's about the pump gas!!!!!! thats what the premise was when started.

so what if the front tires are not "dot" legal! did you not see that last years winner had wheely bars? how many daily driven street cars with 8ft wheely bars do you see running around?

it was to see how fast cars can go on 91 octane period!!!

the rest of it is about safety!

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Nope, you're wrong. I read the article in the issue of Hot Rod when they started the thing. They had a mission statement and they said it was for legit street cars, not gutted race cars. They said they would veto any cars that were not "legit" enough. (I forget their exact wording)