APS Inlet hose
10-15-2008, 05:19 PM
#1
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APS Inlet hose Ive read a few threads that APS was going to offer a better streangthen hose for our F body kits.I sent Peter a few messages with no response yet Have any of you heard anything
10-15-2008, 08:06 PM
#2
Well its basically simple but for some reason it never is with Peter it seems .
Question is are the upgraded ducts in stock or not? Simple yes or no please Peter.
Assume they are still 200 plus like 100 shipping.
If so then you guys have to decide if you are going to buy them. I am hoping to just mod /tweak my setup shortly once get in my car and can study it. Getting closer so maybe another week or so until first start up.
I am also now in the other camp of thinking that why should we pay for the upgraded intake tubes, especially after reading collapsing inlet tubes can harm the turbos. So this is a defect not a shortcoming of the kit. Some further testing should be done though.I would like to know if the tubes still collapse without the air filters as maybe they are not helping and are too restictive.
Secondly would like to see someone on the board actually test the upgraded inlets and would like to see a test longer term. I am putting my car away in couple of weeks so hopefully by time it comes out of hibernation they will have these inlet tubes will be proven and maybe we will have other options by then or will have figured something out myself.
Also want to see someone run the base turbos on 402 or 408 with maybe no inlet tubes on dyno . Want to really see if need to trade up. Or get that shop on GTO forum that is doing Kwikars car to do my turbos too. Any news there Kwikkar?
Question is are the upgraded ducts in stock or not? Simple yes or no please Peter.
Assume they are still 200 plus like 100 shipping.
If so then you guys have to decide if you are going to buy them. I am hoping to just mod /tweak my setup shortly once get in my car and can study it. Getting closer so maybe another week or so until first start up.
I am also now in the other camp of thinking that why should we pay for the upgraded intake tubes, especially after reading collapsing inlet tubes can harm the turbos. So this is a defect not a shortcoming of the kit. Some further testing should be done though.I would like to know if the tubes still collapse without the air filters as maybe they are not helping and are too restictive.
Secondly would like to see someone on the board actually test the upgraded inlets and would like to see a test longer term. I am putting my car away in couple of weeks so hopefully by time it comes out of hibernation they will have these inlet tubes will be proven and maybe we will have other options by then or will have figured something out myself.
Also want to see someone run the base turbos on 402 or 408 with maybe no inlet tubes on dyno . Want to really see if need to trade up. Or get that shop on GTO forum that is doing Kwikars car to do my turbos too. Any news there Kwikkar?
10-16-2008, 07:10 AM
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stopped by yesterday at the shop. Turbos should be back early next week and then he is going to port them the housings. I'm up in the air about having a bottom end girdle put in. I know some people say dont worry about and some people say its cheap insurance. So.??? If thats the case we have to pull the motor out again, install girdle. We already have to take the transmission out due to a rear main leak. But car should be ready by the end of the month or early Nov. He says 1000 rwhp easy. Now im looking at Rearends....
10-16-2008, 09:17 AM
#4
Excellent might get same thing done to mine after seeing your results..Especially if have any problems with my standard turbos.
What are you doing for inlet tubes again..is he fabbing up something or modifying the stock ones.?
Sounds like pain to do the girdle but guess if you have already have the tranny out of the car anyway. I suppose am happy that have iron block 408 not worried about girdles but of course did gain a few pounds from the heavier block. My car is not a race car so don't much care. Just wanted strength above all else.
What are you doing for inlet tubes again..is he fabbing up something or modifying the stock ones.?
Sounds like pain to do the girdle but guess if you have already have the tranny out of the car anyway. I suppose am happy that have iron block 408 not worried about girdles but of course did gain a few pounds from the heavier block. My car is not a race car so don't much care. Just wanted strength above all else.
10-16-2008, 08:41 PM
#6
Never mind the pm stuff.
Peter are the upraded ducts in stock now or not? YES OR NO!
And I want you to talk to your superiors again about free upgrade inlet tubes for the kits. Might consider paying the shipping. 300 bucks is not reasonable anymore when collapsing tubes can damage turbos.
If you can't get anywhere for us getting us at least free ducts and we pay the shipping or the reverse then I want to have email or pm of your superiors.The time change makes it awkward for us to call aps directly. And also APS is a big company, so why do they not have customer support email? or any email. Do they expect their dealers to take all the heat for any problems that come up. We bought our kits from you directly.
Now don't get me wrong. There are many things in the kit that look great and appeart to be good quality. But there are issues ..the sucking shut is huge one. Turbo damage is possible and we are seeing guys with dead turbos if you read my poll.
And people want to be able to get more boost out of them. You gave us dyno numbers with like 18psi or 20psi with yoru base kit. We want to be able to duplicate or surpass those numbers. We want more than 12psi without collapsing tube. The sway bar issue is fairly minor. You could just ship a fix how much can a spacer cost or end links? You could offer for sale a sway bar fix for bigger sway bars like my hotchkis and might pay 50 or 100 bucks max for that.
As for overheating well expected to maybe see some and prepared to spend money on bigger capacity water pump and better rad and hoping that does the trick. One of the main reasons that bought your kit was to be able to keep my air and USE MY AIR and you use the air on hot days! I don't live in very hot place compared to some so lucky maybe in that regard.
I would also like to know do you balance these turbos in house or what. If they are not balanced correctly then you have some big quality control issues. So far not sure what to make of things. We have fair amount with duds..some in the poll can be ignored they dont' even have aps just lying on the poll for whatever reason. And we have several who think have no problems thank god. Hoping I am one of them.
I had to wait to install my kit as wanted an engine and that was source of a lot of delays.Finally trying to install my kit at end of the season basically. If lucky will be able to drive it for two weeks before it goes away.,
Now if my turbos are off warranty and duds I will be very unhappy. I would maybe have traded up to the better ones but right now you guys are not overly inspiring me.
I was also thinking to get the matching fuel system from you guys but now think going with one off another sponsor.
You are good at sales and getting people to buy the kits. You are not great at after sales service or tech support. Set up a tech support email site on your company home page! And start taking care of these little problems now or you can forget any future purchases or referrals from a lot of us.
I am planning a c6 tt..have many friends in local club waiting to see how my aps kit works. They are a bit worried they also lurk on ls1tech.
Sorry to take this post and use it like this but since you are answering this guy...sort of..
then you can answer me in this post..I don't need pm and either does anyone else. We want action. We want kits that boost to 12psi. sway bar fix,and hopefully quality balanced turbos that don't hit the housings or blow oil out like shot down WW1 airplanes. And not saying that my turbos do that .They are still in the box.
You guys have a lot going for you..just so you don't think I am only negative. You delivered ahead of schedule..unlike GMR speed that took 2000 bucks of my money!
Your kit was packed to perfection. Your install manual is fantastic. Your sales ability is very good. And we have seen some good results from your kits..JM..Hugger z, etc and for some reason not seeing much about dud or problem turbos from the c5 or GTO guys and they are using same modified 20gs.
Question though and want a simple YES OR NO!.
Are these genuine mits or chinese knockoffs?
And do you balance them after you tweak them or does another shop do this stuff for you?? YES OR NO!.
Peter are the upraded ducts in stock now or not? YES OR NO!
And I want you to talk to your superiors again about free upgrade inlet tubes for the kits. Might consider paying the shipping. 300 bucks is not reasonable anymore when collapsing tubes can damage turbos.
If you can't get anywhere for us getting us at least free ducts and we pay the shipping or the reverse then I want to have email or pm of your superiors.The time change makes it awkward for us to call aps directly. And also APS is a big company, so why do they not have customer support email? or any email. Do they expect their dealers to take all the heat for any problems that come up. We bought our kits from you directly.
Now don't get me wrong. There are many things in the kit that look great and appeart to be good quality. But there are issues ..the sucking shut is huge one. Turbo damage is possible and we are seeing guys with dead turbos if you read my poll.
And people want to be able to get more boost out of them. You gave us dyno numbers with like 18psi or 20psi with yoru base kit. We want to be able to duplicate or surpass those numbers. We want more than 12psi without collapsing tube. The sway bar issue is fairly minor. You could just ship a fix how much can a spacer cost or end links? You could offer for sale a sway bar fix for bigger sway bars like my hotchkis and might pay 50 or 100 bucks max for that.
As for overheating well expected to maybe see some and prepared to spend money on bigger capacity water pump and better rad and hoping that does the trick. One of the main reasons that bought your kit was to be able to keep my air and USE MY AIR and you use the air on hot days! I don't live in very hot place compared to some so lucky maybe in that regard.
I would also like to know do you balance these turbos in house or what. If they are not balanced correctly then you have some big quality control issues. So far not sure what to make of things. We have fair amount with duds..some in the poll can be ignored they dont' even have aps just lying on the poll for whatever reason. And we have several who think have no problems thank god. Hoping I am one of them.
I had to wait to install my kit as wanted an engine and that was source of a lot of delays.Finally trying to install my kit at end of the season basically. If lucky will be able to drive it for two weeks before it goes away.,
Now if my turbos are off warranty and duds I will be very unhappy. I would maybe have traded up to the better ones but right now you guys are not overly inspiring me.
I was also thinking to get the matching fuel system from you guys but now think going with one off another sponsor.
You are good at sales and getting people to buy the kits. You are not great at after sales service or tech support. Set up a tech support email site on your company home page! And start taking care of these little problems now or you can forget any future purchases or referrals from a lot of us.
I am planning a c6 tt..have many friends in local club waiting to see how my aps kit works. They are a bit worried they also lurk on ls1tech.
Sorry to take this post and use it like this but since you are answering this guy...sort of..
then you can answer me in this post..I don't need pm and either does anyone else. We want action. We want kits that boost to 12psi. sway bar fix,and hopefully quality balanced turbos that don't hit the housings or blow oil out like shot down WW1 airplanes. And not saying that my turbos do that .They are still in the box.
You guys have a lot going for you..just so you don't think I am only negative. You delivered ahead of schedule..unlike GMR speed that took 2000 bucks of my money!
Your kit was packed to perfection. Your install manual is fantastic. Your sales ability is very good. And we have seen some good results from your kits..JM..Hugger z, etc and for some reason not seeing much about dud or problem turbos from the c5 or GTO guys and they are using same modified 20gs.
Question though and want a simple YES OR NO!.
Are these genuine mits or chinese knockoffs?
And do you balance them after you tweak them or does another shop do this stuff for you?? YES OR NO!.
10-16-2008, 09:06 PM
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Info@airpowersystems.com.au
Peter
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10-16-2008, 10:14 PM
#9
Removing the air filters DOES NOT keep the intake DUCTS from collapsing. They are not very restrictive at all actually.
That is straight from an associate from APS. I guess they have done some testing....
The 16+psi numbers resulting in 800+rwhp HAD to be with the turbos running just a screen or nothing at all. With that being said, APS had to know the ducts were collapsing when pushing over 12psi or so. And when the ducts collapse, the turbo's turn themselves inside out. Basically... game over.
MayTag did something simular a few years ago. After years and years of an awesome reputation and building the company to a pretty large size, they developed ONE washing machine with a small glitch. Compared to the cost of the washing machine, about $800, the cost to replace the broken part was pretty expensive, $179. MayTag, however, decided to just replace the same defective part as many times as it took under the one year warranty; some people needing it replaced up to four times in one year. Then, when the warranty expired, so did the replacement part and it was out-of-pocket from that point forward. They could of fixed this by upgrading the part that was breaking but they never did because it would imply that they were wrong and they would have to eat all of the parts that were outside of the one-year warranty on a recall. One huge class-action lawsuit later and they are now owned by Whirlpool and were purchased for pennies on the dollar. You make your bed, you lie in it.
I am in the same boat as you 99TA. I bought my kit last July and still havn't had it tuned yet. I don't know if the turbo's are out of balanced or if they are going to implode if the turbo ducts collapse. I'm worried and if APS won't even supply free ducts to support the CLAIMED hp levels that sold all of these kits in the first place, what are the chances they are going to cover busted turbos outside of the one-year warranty? I'm planning on pretty much being fucked if that happens on the 'GOTCHA' tactic, 'One day late, we are free and clear, it's in the fine print'.
That is straight from an associate from APS. I guess they have done some testing....
The 16+psi numbers resulting in 800+rwhp HAD to be with the turbos running just a screen or nothing at all. With that being said, APS had to know the ducts were collapsing when pushing over 12psi or so. And when the ducts collapse, the turbo's turn themselves inside out. Basically... game over.
MayTag did something simular a few years ago. After years and years of an awesome reputation and building the company to a pretty large size, they developed ONE washing machine with a small glitch. Compared to the cost of the washing machine, about $800, the cost to replace the broken part was pretty expensive, $179. MayTag, however, decided to just replace the same defective part as many times as it took under the one year warranty; some people needing it replaced up to four times in one year. Then, when the warranty expired, so did the replacement part and it was out-of-pocket from that point forward. They could of fixed this by upgrading the part that was breaking but they never did because it would imply that they were wrong and they would have to eat all of the parts that were outside of the one-year warranty on a recall. One huge class-action lawsuit later and they are now owned by Whirlpool and were purchased for pennies on the dollar. You make your bed, you lie in it.
I am in the same boat as you 99TA. I bought my kit last July and still havn't had it tuned yet. I don't know if the turbo's are out of balanced or if they are going to implode if the turbo ducts collapse. I'm worried and if APS won't even supply free ducts to support the CLAIMED hp levels that sold all of these kits in the first place, what are the chances they are going to cover busted turbos outside of the one-year warranty? I'm planning on pretty much being fucked if that happens on the 'GOTCHA' tactic, 'One day late, we are free and clear, it's in the fine print'.
10-16-2008, 10:22 PM
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$248 USD per set plus freight cost to your destination,
Peter
10-16-2008, 10:24 PM
#11
My opinion of APS:
They make a pretty good kit all around. They do a good job of making themselves look good and will tell you what you want to hear when they're selling you something. When it comes to post sale customer service they SUCK, nothing but excuses. Not willing to spend a penny to fix their **** ups.
Bottom line APS does not stand behind their products.
They make a pretty good kit all around. They do a good job of making themselves look good and will tell you what you want to hear when they're selling you something. When it comes to post sale customer service they SUCK, nothing but excuses. Not willing to spend a penny to fix their **** ups.
Bottom line APS does not stand behind their products.
10-16-2008, 10:32 PM
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My opinion of APS:
They make a pretty good kit all around. They do a good job of making themselves look good and will tell you what you want to hear when they're selling you something. When it comes to post sale customer service they SUCK, nothing but excuses. Not willing to spend a penny to fix their **** ups.
Bottom line APS does not stand behind their products.
They make a pretty good kit all around. They do a good job of making themselves look good and will tell you what you want to hear when they're selling you something. When it comes to post sale customer service they SUCK, nothing but excuses. Not willing to spend a penny to fix their **** ups.
Bottom line APS does not stand behind their products.
What we have done is to take the time to look at the inlet hose issue and respecify the comp inlet hose to cope with higher power applications.
If you don't want to pay for the new inlet hose set then that's your choice though we have not left customers in the lurch without any option to rectify the issue.
Cheers,
Peter
10-16-2008, 10:39 PM
#13
You honestly expect me to believe you made no money on the first 100 kits? You sold 50 @ 4500 with free shipping which is a great deal. I don't remember what the price on the next 50 was but it was higher. So for the sake of argument let's assume you sold 100 kits @ 4500 plus spent $500 to ship each kit. So 100 kits @ 4000 net.
I don't see how 200 turbos, 200 manifolds, 100 intercoolers, and the rest of the pieces all bought in bulk cost anywhere near $400,000. You obviously didn't spend much time or money testing the kit, or we wouldn't have the sway bar & intake hose issues.
I don't buy the zero profit line for one second.
I don't see how 200 turbos, 200 manifolds, 100 intercoolers, and the rest of the pieces all bought in bulk cost anywhere near $400,000. You obviously didn't spend much time or money testing the kit, or we wouldn't have the sway bar & intake hose issues.
I don't buy the zero profit line for one second.
10-16-2008, 10:41 PM
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You honestly expect me to believe you made no money on the first 100 kits? You sold 50 @ 4500 with free shipping which is a great deal. I don't remember what the price on the next 50 was but it was higher. So for the sake of argument let's assume you sold 100 kits @ 4500 plus spent $500 to ship each kit. So 100 kits @ 4000 net.
I don't see how 200 turbos, 200 manifolds, 100 intercoolers, and the rest of the pieces all bought in bulk cost anywhere near $400,000. You obviously didn't spend much time or money testing the kit, or we wouldn't have the sway bar & intake hose issues.
I don't buy the zero profit line for one second.
I don't see how 200 turbos, 200 manifolds, 100 intercoolers, and the rest of the pieces all bought in bulk cost anywhere near $400,000. You obviously didn't spend much time or money testing the kit, or we wouldn't have the sway bar & intake hose issues.
I don't buy the zero profit line for one second.
Peter
10-16-2008, 10:45 PM
#15
Well I wanted to give them benefit of the doubt but sadly it seems you are right Calongo!
Wether we spent 5000 or 10,000 it don't matter. The ducts problem can or has been damaging turbos and it should be fixed for free...248 US for silicone..? Plus shipping of like 100 bucks..?? Dollar is crap right now so cost me even more.
And how do I know if these upgraded ducts even work properly. I want to see an independent review by mag or one of the other sponsors that sell the aps kits.Or someone I can trust like JM.
Maybe these ducts get mushy and collapse down the road a bit. They should be able to figure out a simpler fix at least give free shipping something.
I am not happy with spending more money to fix a defective inlet duct. And might be phoning a few of Peters superiors if thats the best they can do. The squeaking wheel sometimes gets the grease. As for warranty on my turbos not expecting much if its needed . Will likely do what always do send them out to a shop with a great rep and have them tweaked and gone thru..
What does that vP whatever mean..Is that the shop that does the balancing..?
I can't bitch yet about any turbo problems. It might be next season before I will even know if mine are good and then for how long if the ducts collapse and kill them.
Hopefully the other issues can be figured out even if I HAVE TO DO IT!
If do have problems or can't easily fix any current possibly issues then my c6 will get a magnacharger instead of APS kit and pretty sure going to be ordeing my new fuel system from Nasty even though the aps system looked pretty decent.And likely sending my current turbos to that place you did Kwikkar rather than spending 1500 bucks trading up plus shipping to APS.
After sales service is everything Peter. Ignore that at your own risk.Enough said.
I guess those of us with the kits will have to help each other best we can..I am not the best at fabricating things but do know people that are good. Sure if we put our minds together we can figure out some effective fixes for the sway bar, inlet tubes. Cooling issues well hoping a ron davis will fit in there with no intercooler moving and hoping the new edelbrock or this high volume ebay pump will do the job.
Sometimes if want something done right you have to do it yourself.
Wether we spent 5000 or 10,000 it don't matter. The ducts problem can or has been damaging turbos and it should be fixed for free...248 US for silicone..? Plus shipping of like 100 bucks..?? Dollar is crap right now so cost me even more.
And how do I know if these upgraded ducts even work properly. I want to see an independent review by mag or one of the other sponsors that sell the aps kits.Or someone I can trust like JM.
Maybe these ducts get mushy and collapse down the road a bit. They should be able to figure out a simpler fix at least give free shipping something.
I am not happy with spending more money to fix a defective inlet duct. And might be phoning a few of Peters superiors if thats the best they can do. The squeaking wheel sometimes gets the grease. As for warranty on my turbos not expecting much if its needed . Will likely do what always do send them out to a shop with a great rep and have them tweaked and gone thru..
What does that vP whatever mean..Is that the shop that does the balancing..?
I can't bitch yet about any turbo problems. It might be next season before I will even know if mine are good and then for how long if the ducts collapse and kill them.
Hopefully the other issues can be figured out even if I HAVE TO DO IT!
If do have problems or can't easily fix any current possibly issues then my c6 will get a magnacharger instead of APS kit and pretty sure going to be ordeing my new fuel system from Nasty even though the aps system looked pretty decent.And likely sending my current turbos to that place you did Kwikkar rather than spending 1500 bucks trading up plus shipping to APS.
After sales service is everything Peter. Ignore that at your own risk.Enough said.
I guess those of us with the kits will have to help each other best we can..I am not the best at fabricating things but do know people that are good. Sure if we put our minds together we can figure out some effective fixes for the sway bar, inlet tubes. Cooling issues well hoping a ron davis will fit in there with no intercooler moving and hoping the new edelbrock or this high volume ebay pump will do the job.
Sometimes if want something done right you have to do it yourself.
10-16-2008, 10:50 PM
#17
Um the kit was 5400 plus free shipping not 4500? And R and D does cost money.
OK you built a duct to supposedly fix the issue. Fine at least send someone we know the ducts for testing like JM we all respect his opinion. Sending one set can't break you.
Maybe JM is going to order some anyway. I am too darn poor after all this turbo kit ,new engine and all that stuff another 300 plus in total is the straw thats breaking my back.
At least knowing they have the issue plan on keeping my boost just gate pressure. No idea why some guys have also said they were putting out like 12 on the basic gate springs of 7.5?
These arguements as usual are circular and get nowhere it seems.
OK you built a duct to supposedly fix the issue. Fine at least send someone we know the ducts for testing like JM we all respect his opinion. Sending one set can't break you.
Maybe JM is going to order some anyway. I am too darn poor after all this turbo kit ,new engine and all that stuff another 300 plus in total is the straw thats breaking my back.
At least knowing they have the issue plan on keeping my boost just gate pressure. No idea why some guys have also said they were putting out like 12 on the basic gate springs of 7.5?
These arguements as usual are circular and get nowhere it seems.
10-16-2008, 10:54 PM
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Um the kit was 5400 plus free shipping not 4500? And R and D does cost money.
OK you built a duct to supposedly fix the issue. Fine at least send someone we know the ducts for testing like JM we all respect his opinion. Sending one set can't break you.
Maybe JM is going to order some anyway. I am too darn poor after all this turbo kit ,new engine and all that stuff another 300 plus in total is the straw thats breaking my back.
At least knowing they have the issue plan on keeping my boost just gate pressure. No idea why some guys have also said they were putting out like 12 on the basic gate springs of 7.5?
These arguements as usual are circular and get nowhere it seems.
OK you built a duct to supposedly fix the issue. Fine at least send someone we know the ducts for testing like JM we all respect his opinion. Sending one set can't break you.
Maybe JM is going to order some anyway. I am too darn poor after all this turbo kit ,new engine and all that stuff another 300 plus in total is the straw thats breaking my back.
At least knowing they have the issue plan on keeping my boost just gate pressure. No idea why some guys have also said they were putting out like 12 on the basic gate springs of 7.5?
These arguements as usual are circular and get nowhere it seems.
10-16-2008, 10:56 PM
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Well I wanted to give them benefit of the doubt but sadly it seems you are right Calongo!
Wether we spent 5000 or 10,000 it don't matter. The ducts problem can or has been damaging turbos and it should be fixed for free...248 US for silicone..? Plus shipping of like 100 bucks..?? Dollar is crap right now so cost me even more.
Wether we spent 5000 or 10,000 it don't matter. The ducts problem can or has been damaging turbos and it should be fixed for free...248 US for silicone..? Plus shipping of like 100 bucks..?? Dollar is crap right now so cost me even more.
There you go.........do it yourself will save you a small fortune.
Peter
10-16-2008, 10:58 PM
#20
So change my above number 1/2 million dollars on the conservative side for 100 kits. It's been a while, didn't remember what it cost.
I'm sure they spent some money developing the kit, I'm not arguing that. It took quite a bit of time to make jigs and come up with the specs for the manifolds. But we are not talking months of teams of engineers working for months on this thing, it's a turbo kit, not a rocket ship.
Regardless of what Peter said they made money. Companies don't do things for free, it's the way free enterprise works. They're supposed to turn a profit, APS wouldn't have been around long enough to make f-body kits if they didn't run a profitable operation.
I'm sure they spent some money developing the kit, I'm not arguing that. It took quite a bit of time to make jigs and come up with the specs for the manifolds. But we are not talking months of teams of engineers working for months on this thing, it's a turbo kit, not a rocket ship.
Regardless of what Peter said they made money. Companies don't do things for free, it's the way free enterprise works. They're supposed to turn a profit, APS wouldn't have been around long enough to make f-body kits if they didn't run a profitable operation.