acslam

Ok, found me an LS1 Trans Am, non-WS6, has 6 speed, t-tops. I'm in MA, and this one is on a Providence, RI dealer lot. (strike 1)

Car has 139k miles. Looks beautiful in pics. Dealer stated no accidents, carfax told a different story - 2 of them. Thing is, they were 8 and 4 years ago, respectively. Seems like the car has been fully functional after being repaired.

I've got him down to 4300 bucks, over the phone, and I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Couple questions:

1. What quick telltale signs can I look for to see if the accidents caused really nasty damage? Or, am I being stupid to even consider one that's been hit?

2. If the car drives nice, does this seem like a fair price? Not a WS6, and been hit twice with 139k miles....but damn, it's the least expensive LS1/M6 I could find on autotrader.

I am a mechanic, and I don't care about this being a show car, totally a DD for me. I have a 95 9c1 I'll be retiring to "project insanity" status, a 68 Dodge that's being rebuilt, and a diesel ram for my 4x4 fix. I just need to buy a car that I can drive and not worry so much about that's better MPG than my current ride and fun. But I'm not well versed in f-bods, and Im a little skeptical about this car. I personally do not care about a crash, IF the car drives fine/doesn't show it. Again, this isn't going to be my "nice" ride, if that makes sense.

Can you guys give me some direction? Maybe suggest haggling points?

The dealer is willing to let me put down 300 in cash and pay the 4k over 2 months. This seems like a little more than most dealers would do, but having to do that kinda hurts my position I think. I'll try to edit this post down later, anyhow, fire away!

xephona

iTrader: (4)

fully functional, and safe.. are two seperate things. check for any out of place welds on the frame, if you find any, you can get a good idea of what happened in the accident, if you dont find any... its possible that it was just cosmetic damage in the accidents, like a cracked fiberglass shell on the door (i have had that when someone backed into me... technically an accident, but no "real" damage since the whole door was just replaced)

make sure you also check for a rod knock, that is a really common reason for a dealer to sell the car well below normal price. as well as any noise coming from the rear differential. those are both REALLY expensive fixes...

EDIT: Also, bear in mind that it is the cheapest LS1 you could find... I know that whenever an LS1 goes up for sale around me, it is usually sold for 7k within a week of being put up... usually more if it is an M6 OR a T/A, I would SERIOUSLY not trust this deal unless you are sure that you can fix any issues, and find all the issues before hand. It very well may be a diamond in the rough... but from a dealer? pushing your luck a bit

97ramsst

iTrader: (162)

What exactly did the car fax say...minor accident or moderate? Any airbag deployment? I had a 05 Expedition that got bumped while parked in a parking lot when it was 2 weeks old. I had them replace the rear bumper and blend the paint and it showed up as a rear end collision with "moderate damage"...which was insane. Its based on the cost of the repair from what I understand.

On the other hand I drove 18hrs once to buy a 02 Firehawk with a clean Car Fax. I got there and the car had had major damage front and back at one time. So the Car Fax can be very flawed. I do like it for odometer checks though.

Check out the car and see what it looks like...dont dicredit it because it shows two wrecks on car fax...besides its a 10 year old car for less than $5K, dont expect too much from it.

acslam

Carfax stated one in Louisiana as "moderate" and another that happened in my state, that was the most recent, about 4 years ago. I tried to bully the dealer a little on the phone, got him to mention there's a small diff leak.....I answered with "really? ok.....sooo how well does the posi work?? have you checked the fluid in the diff to see if there's any left?"
reply was "I'll put it up on the lift first thing in the morning and check that...."

I'm not opposed to some repairs, later on, but something like that is what scares me. I can handle whatever it would need, but I need it to be good and turn key for...say....till next summer. Currently, my 9c1 could honestly use about 2k in repair parts if I really wanted it the way it was when I took it home.

He originally was asking 4700, I got him to 4300 on the phone. I'd really like to get it down under that. I've driven a couple before, and have felt good and bad ones. I know I'm kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel. Truth is I can't get these cars out of my head, but I have the problem of loving my others to much, I'm scared to let my B-body go as collateral for another car!

I'll take a look at it and see what I can see, I appreciate the tips, and looking for any more anyone can share.

Do these cars benefit from something like an eaton/torsen in the back like a caprice, or is it the whole axle itself I have to change? The quick fix for the b-bods is to toss in an eaton and call it a day. I have a spare......wondering if that can be a decent fix for the whole "rear diff leak" problem.

xephona

iTrader: (4)

The only real experience with the rear diff is the issues that I have had myself. If nothing else, it may give you an example of the potential issues that you may encounter, and a general idea on cost.

My rear end was making weird noises randomly since the day i got it, and I never thought much of it until it made a constant noise. Turns out that the gears in there were stripping, leaving a... well.. "liquid metal" on the magnet. No one near me knows how to swap out those gears properly, except for the local pontiac dealership. Total cost of the TWO GEARS inside, was $950, not including labor.

Now, if this car you want doesn't have enough lube in it right now, and people are still driving it for test drives and what not. You could potentially rack up some damage in there really fast. There are also a lot of other parts in there aside from the $950 gears, that will pretty much cause a chain reaction and total the WHOLE rear end in many cases.

Gotta love that 10-bolt rear end. But being a mechanic and all, I am pretty sure you probably know all of the potential consequences. And I certainly hope you do get an LS1... just... be prepared to drop a LOT into it. You will fall in love REALLY fast and want to start adding more and more to it... just hope that none of those repairs/upgrades have to be a $2000 repair that could have been totally avoided.

EDIT: side note, would you mind posting the pics? or links to them? we might notice some other potential issues, and always love to see other f-bodies

acslam

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...000&cardist=39



Sorry that's way to long of a link, but that's the car i'm going to check out tomorrow. Looks nice in pics, but don't they all! Wish it had the ws6 hood, but what the hell, it's the way it drives that gets me excited!

xephona

iTrader: (4)

Well the pics are too small to notice any real defects, but what I did notice was that the tail light back plate, (not entirely sure if that is the real name for it)... the plastic plate between the tail lights, with the lock for the trunk in it... is solid black.

I don't recall ever seeing that come stock, so my initial thought is that it was a rear end collision, and they just used the first thing they could find, since the TA bird is supposed to be back there on stock birds... the prior owner may have put that on there as one of his modifications (and I don't see how any fbody owner would ONLY put a solid backplate on and then stop there), so maybe check for any other things they may have changed and possibly done wrong. Then again, it may just prove the crappy quality photos and other stuff is being hidden until you see it in person.

And lastly, there don't appear to be any logos on it. No "Trans Am" emblems on the sides.... it could be the picture quality again, or it could be that the whole body got screwed up and they just started throwing on the body parts of an available TA, seems weird... but certainly worth a serious look regardless, it does look beautiful.

97ramsst

iTrader: (162)

The car looks really good in the pictures. The black filler pannel is mostly likely do to the fact that the bird and Trans Am emblems have just worn and faded off over the last 10 years....or the previouse owner took them off (very common either way.) I couldnt tell if the Trans Am emblems were there or not, but again its very common for people to take those off.

I would be just looking at the pics the car has not been ran real hard and abused...I say this based on the fact that it has the stock exhaust and 16in wheels on it. Thats just a gut feeling...and being I have bought 7 F-Bodies on-line over the last 2 years I can usually read a car pretty well.

Paying $2K for a 10 bolt is insane....$950 is crazy. You can buy fairly low mile complete rear ends at a junk yard for $250ish. And keep in mind this is a $4300 so those are plenty good enough.

As far as the price...if it was local for that price...ran halfway decent and looked half as good as it does in the pics I would own it right now. You cant buy a decent roller with interior much cheaper than that...not a TA at least.

whitdog54

iTrader: (19)

I live in MA, never seen a t/a for sale in ma or ct. I say go for there hard to come by around here

acslam

Ok, I went to look at the car, and found the following pros and cons, hoping for some more opinins with this info:

Pros:
-The pics don't do it much justice, the trans am and bird emblems are all there, loud and clear in person.
-Car runs VERY well compared the the others I've driven, seemed to have good power throughout the RPM range.
-It really is all stock, no mods on exhaust even. More powerful than other, modded and more expensive LS1 birds I've found. Even had the damned skipshift
-Clutch didn't slip under normal, city traffic type driving.
-Seemed to shift well through all gears, didn't pop out or anything and I got it into all 6 gears fine.
-Brakes are strong, I was very surprised, car stops well.
-Seems to handle as tightly as this car would. Certainly felt "cheaper" than my caprice, but drove straight without any pulling, didn't pick up any real vibes or strange handling, and it made me want to tear up some corners.
-Crawled under it, the frame rails that I could see looked pretty good - I've seen a repaired one before that bad bent rear frame, this car looked decent there.
-Repair work seems like it was done by a competant shop
-headlights worked
-good tires, pretty decent underneath as far as rust, was a southern car before in it's life.

Cons:
-Rear diff is leaking, though I didn't pick up anything that seemed like rear end noise, just the normal rattles around the hatch area
-Looks like she could use a brake or fuel line, one of them was lookin kinda crusty.
-The car has definitely been hit from behind and I could detect at least a driver side quarter and taillight have been done, might have been other side too but wasn't so sure about that one.
-Pass side taillight is not done and needs to be replaced, dim and cracked, won't pass inspection in my state.
-Bent lip on rear rim but not sure if that even matters
-Hatch needs new supports, won't stay up.
-T-tops were sealed shut with silicone, I'm guessing because they leaked (could this mean bent frame from accident??)
-Drivers power window failing, pass seemed alright
-AC needs recharge
-center console/shifter area was all loose and falling apart, I think someone installed an aftermarket shifter?
-steering wheel radio controls dont seem to work...(could this mean clockspring fail/airbag deployment?)
-Almost felt as if the tranny might be vibrating a little bit? synchros?
-After driving it, I noticed some antifreeze dripping out from the right front nose area, not sure what this could mean
-I'm not well educated on the cost of parts for these kinds of issues.


The dealer didn't tell me some of these things, and I know he got the car from an auction. They're telling me it's been there 2 weeks (I know I've seen that ad for at least a month) and the usual, "i got someone coming to look at it". It seems mechanically and framewise sound, but I'm not entirely sure about the guy. The rest of the place seemed clean enough for what it was, and he had a decent inventory of many newer cars than this.

He is willing to allow me to put down a deposit and hold it for up to two months while I get the rest of the money. At the same time, I know making a deal like that is hurting my bargaining position. The car itself seems like it would be a good deal, given that I know what is wrong with it, although part of my justification for buying over fixing my caprice is "turn key". I don't wanna do a clutch or rear end this fall, but next summer, bring on the pain.

Sorry for the long post, but you guys have been really helpful and I appreciate it.

Where in MA are you from?

97ramsst

iTrader: (162)

Like I said...$4300 is a deal. I would have wrote him a check on the spot for it...most of the stuff you mentioned is small. The T-Tops would concern me. The rear doesnt...its most likely leaking around the pinion seal and would take an hour to fix.

Quick break down of what I think it would cost ME to fix some of the stuff list:
Taillight - $100 and 10min
Rear end (asuming its the pinion seal) - $30 and 2hrs (including changing the fluid)
AC (if its just a recharge...BIG IF) - $20 and 5min
Hatch Supports - $25 or so on ebay
Window motor - $100 and 2 hours

The rest of the stuff (besides the fuel/brake line) you could live with if money is that big of an issue...so figure on having less than $5K in a good looking strong LS1 TA and I dont see how you can go wrong. Like I said I would buy it and make money it!

1995blacktattop

iTrader: (2)

yeah what he said. i might have 2 accidents on my car according to carfax (i honestly dont think either is on there but i havent checked it in awhile) but both times the damage was under $1500 and both times the same thing was replaced: the front bumper cover. since the first one was at a car wash and them driving it into something @ 2mph it only cracked the hose and damaged the crush panel underneath and the second time was a bale of hay (yes hay) up into the front left side of the bumper, neither time there was any real body work done. they just removed the old bumper cover (and crush zone the first time), painted the new bumper and slapped it on there.

as for the T-tops being sealed shut, i think i'd pass for that reason, but thats because the T-tops were one of the main reasons i bought my car.

acslam

Well, my biggest concern with the T-tops is WHY they leak, I'm new to these cars, and I'm guessing that the easiest fix is to get a new seal for the tops, right? Wouldn't that be what I'd do? Or is it possibly indicating that maybe the car has some frame damage?

T-tops are one of the things on my list, it's definitely the first thing I'd fix.

1995blacktattop

iTrader: (2)

i wonder how hard it will be to remove the t-tops if they are siliconed in?

acslam

Is there any way that I could convince/ask the dealer to check the frame for me with regards to the T-tops? they're siliconed shut right now, and I'm not sure how to get them off and check the fitment in the frames without actually buying the car. I'm not sure if it's something I can ask a dealer to do if I'm not entirely sure I'm gonna purchase it - like I said, I'm very worried about the potential of the frame being tweaked and that being the cause of the leaking t-tops.

docJHH45

I used to live around that area... tough area with alot of unreputable dealers. Never heard anything good or bad about this particular one. No way in hell any dealer would waste their time having the frame checked for you on a car with a 130k. IMHO the car sounds like trouble.... But for only $4k, it comes down to what you are willing to live with

sectari

iTrader: (2)

leaking t-tops aren't necessarily an indication of frame damage- lots of t-tops start getting leaky with age.

I've siliconed shut my t-tops for the winter on my old mustang- it was not terribly hard to get them open again in the spring.

-sectari

acslam

Thanks a lot for the opinions, it's really helpful. Funny - I posted almost this same thread, though more directly related to the t-top issue, in "general LSX discussion", and received a really negative response about the car. I did get another chance to look at it, and at this point I'm about 90% certain I overrated the t-top issue - they look fine, I can't find any evidence of real frame damage, it really seems like a careless/cheap previous owner just decided screw it and sealed them shut. I've got deposit on the car and he's holding it for about 2 months while I come up with the money. At 4k, if it turns out to be an actual POS, I think I'll turn around and part it and use the LS1/6speed for my Caprice. Six speed police cruiser would be insane!