Dyno Guesses & Bench Racing Forum - LS1 vs ZZ4 HP output

Hello,

I would like to know why the ZZ4 is rated (355HP) more powerful then a stock LS1 (310HP) engine? I thought both are rated at the flywheel? I also thought the LS1 was a more powerful engine? What am I missing?

Thanks
Danno74Z

the ls1 is rated at 350 also flywheel but more like 310 to the wheels, not sure what the zz4 is so i couldnt tell you

The ZZ4 is a GM crate engine (carb) that has been around for at least 10 years. GM part number: 12499712 ZZ4 350 Turn-Key

Are there any other's that have an answer to my question?

Thanks
Dan

Hello,

I would like to know why the ZZ4 is rated (355HP) more powerful then a stock LS1 (310HP) engine? I thought both are rated at the flywheel? I also thought the LS1 was a more powerful engine? What am I missing?

Thanks
Danno74Z

Ask GM. Why do you want to know why they rated it at 355HP, probably because it makes 355HP. The LS1 isn't the god of all engines, they do make some that are more powerful.

The ZZ4 is a GM crate engine (carb) that has been around for at least 10 years. GM part number: 12499712 ZZ4 350 Turn-Key

Are there any other's that have an answer to my question?

Thanks
Dan

Im not sure what site your on, but all LS1's make at least 345 fly wheel hp.
I don't see The ZZ4 crate engine passing todays emissions, thats why the LS1 is "restricted" in comparison.

My 80 Camaro made about the same power to the wheels as my LS1 did. My 80 has a zz4 w/ hot cam kit, Holley 750 DP, Edelbrock Airgap, through a TH-400. My 01 had a lid and catback through a T-56. Both put around 330 rwhp and 360 rwtq (give or take)

Edit: To answer you question, the LS1 is very underated, the ZZ4 is right on (fly wheel hp). A base model zz4 would probably put down about 20 rwhp less through a similar drivetrain.

Interesting comment about underrated LS1 HP. I put my stock (brand new paper filter, mobil 1) 15k mile, 2002 ws6, M6 on a Mustang dyno. It measured 300 rwhp. I thought the dyno was happy but maybe not. Also FYI everybody, it pinged a little on costo 93 gas, so thay don't always need a little more timing.

Thanks Guys for the comments.

For some reason I always thought the stock LS1 was a "more powerful engine" then the old ZZ4 crate. I have been enlightened. Also, I thought the LS1 has better heads, intake and it's FI meaning - more power. Granted the LS1 is a much greener :D engine as was mentioned.

Danno74z

they are 2 totally different engines.

the ls1 was a production engine, while the zz4 is a crate motor.

your question is not much different than asking why the gmpp 502 made more power?
duh...different engine.

nothing from the zz4 would swap to the ls1

my ls1 is definetly 'more powerful', it has MUCH better heads (ZZ4 heads top out around 200cfm) and the FI helps out a lot...

given they both put down the same RWHP:

LS1 - 20 mpg (much more efficient), emissions compliant, great street manners/DD - ready to run anytime, anywhere
ZZ4- 10mpg, wouldn't pass emissions in my widlest dreams, has been a good DD in the past (before I got my SS) but you need to adjust the A/F everytime the weather changes

Also, look at the Weight difference and better top end. HP is one thing but when a ZZ4 will not carry the same HP Power Band as an LSX engine.

you need a zz572:nod:j/k. idk anything about the zz4but from what it sounds like, the LS1 is a better engine all around.

You are talking about something that is Gen I vs. Gen III..old technology at the time vs. new school.
I knew a guy with a 383 ZZ4 in a Monte, he had a Cam and bolt-ons, my little Hotcam LT1 would smear that car. A ZZ4 was "the shit" back in the day, but now it's old technology..

Hey teke184, did I ask "ANYTHING" about swapping components between these two DIFFERENT engines! Nothing derogatory was mentioned about either. All I asked was a simple question about HP output between the two engines. I am in the Newbie Tech area right so please lighten up a little. I happen to own a stock 2002 LS1 that I'm putting into a 74Z. I have a friend who also has a 74Z with a ZZ4 crate motor... So you know where I'm going:engarde:. I wanted to try and figure out how close both cars would run down the road since both engines put out about the same HP. This could be a blast.

Thanks Again!!!
Danno74Z

Add some headers, swap to a bigger cam, port the TB (easy), get a good air intake setup and you will be able to make about 400 whp which should be around 440-450 flywheel hp.

Nitroused383, I'm stuck using block hugger headers because of many constraints. I know not the best solution but have to work with many obstacles. I can however put in a bigger cam and I thought about that while I have the engine on a test stand. As they say now would be the time to do that engine work. I guess one would reach a limit of diminishing returns without LT headers. Probably just a cam swap and a few bolt ons would be it.

Danno74Z

I wouldn't be suprised if he could take that car now..lets see that '74 run a 13 in the 1/4.. they are heavier cars.

The thing about the stock LS1 motors is that they come stock with a cam that barely has .500 lift and around 200 degrees of duration @ .050". That is nothing at all and it makes great smooth power. I'm not sure what cam the zz4 crate motor has but I know if you put the same cam in both motors the LS1 would always make more power. The factory LS1 15 degree heads blow away most of the Gen I sbc heads. You are comparing a 23 degree head to 15 degree head. Someone makes a cheatr came that is designed to make good power with factory exhaust manifolds you may want to look into that. I think it has around 10-15 more degrees of duration on the exhaust side, which helps out with restrictive exhaust. Unless your buddy throws on a set of brodix, dart, or afr heads on his 23 degree chevy there is nothing he can do to beat you.

I wouldn't be suprised if he could take that car now..lets see that '74 run a 13 in the 1/4.. they are heavier cars.

Looks like you did not read what he posted up. Both him and his friend are putting their engines in a 74z. Same cars, also the ls1 is an aluminum block/head engine so your car will be lighter.

I missed that part, overlooked it.

I would vote for the LS1..

You really want to burn his ass, build a little 383 out of that LS1..:devil:

Wow this is all great information - just by asking a question!

Nitroused383, you asked about the ZZ4 cam specs
ZZ4
Duration @ 0.050" Lift: 208/221
Lift: .474"/.510"
Lobe Separation: 112

If I'm not mistaken I think the LS1 cam is even smaller then this. If I just put in a better cam it should really make things interesting.

This is a awesome forum!

By the way the 74Z weighs in at approx 2800lbs "with" the LS1

Danno74z

Friend has a ZZ4 in his 79 Camaro. Very nice engine but not worth it IMO. Can build a sweet 383 for the same price.

I'd go LSX.. there is alot more aftermarket for it.

not sure but i think the zz4 came out in '87 and was put in everything, a 350 out of say a 1990 silverado should be a zz4. the main difference i believe is that its a hydraulic roller cam vs the old 350 hydraulic flat tappet

I would vote for the LS1..

You really want to burn his ass, build a little 383 out of that LS1..:devil:

Skip the 383 and just spray 100 at it :engarde:

Stock 98-00 LS1 cam:
Duration @ .050 198.86 intake 209.25 exhaust
Lift .498 intake .497 exhaust
LSA 119.45

Stock 01-02 LS1 cam

Duration @ .050 196.37 intake 208.72 exhaust
Lift .464 intake .479 exhaust
LSA 115.92

I would go for the LS1 :nod: It is MUCH easier to make power with on a budget and in near stock trim. Add Rod bolts and spin that bottom end to 7200rpm+ :D You can hit 400hp+ N/A fairly easy, and toss a lil gas and break 550hp/600ft. lbs even easier. In a car THAT light it should be a lot of fun. :thumb:

Ls1 is FAR superior. 6 bolt mains, 100lbs lighter, 15 degree cathedral port heads as mentioned, coil on plug ignition, 6800rpm useable powerband.

On my LS1 swap (i went carbed) but I'm shooting for 400-420rwhp cam only. Untouched stock cylinder heads and going for 10.90s cam only at the track. I dont think a ZZ4 will do that on stock cylinder heads. Stock for stock they may make the same power but i know the LS1 powerband will be much more useable over a broader rpm band.

How does your 74 z only weigh 2800lbs? I had a 70 firebird an 79 Z28 and i would have guessed both around 3600lbs+.