Roadrunner VS. HP tuners
11-13-2008, 02:55 PM
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Roadrunner VS. HP tuners Which one would you go with? Roadrunner is a little more expensive but you can tune on the fly. HPtuners seems more common and is slightly cheaper but doesnt tune on the fly and you can have to pay for 'credits'. Tuning on the fly is nice, but is it really necessary and worth the extra money (vs HPtuners PRO) when datalogging can basically achieve the same results?
Also, Which one is more user friendly? It seems there is much more info on HPtuners and less on roadrunner. Im torn between which one i should go with. Can someone share some input on this?
Also, Which one is more user friendly? It seems there is much more info on HPtuners and less on roadrunner. Im torn between which one i should go with. Can someone share some input on this?
11-13-2008, 03:29 PM
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I have both apps, but no real time tuning for either. Personally, I prefer EFI Live because the user interface is taylored much more to my liking and the scan tool is better IMO. They both offer equal tuning capabilities and both require some form of licensing or credits.
HPT offers RTT (real time tuning) that allows you to change some parameters while the car is running down the road. IIRC, you still need to perform a flash afterwards to get those changes to stick. Roadrunner is more like a replacement PCM. Both are powerful tools, but overkill for the shadetree mechanic IMO. If you're running a shop and tuning 4 cars a day, that's when I'd say their value truly shines.
IDK what else to tell ya. You can d/l EFI Live and a tune from www.holdencrazy.com to play with it yourself. I'm not sure if HPT has a demo though.
HPT offers RTT (real time tuning) that allows you to change some parameters while the car is running down the road. IIRC, you still need to perform a flash afterwards to get those changes to stick. Roadrunner is more like a replacement PCM. Both are powerful tools, but overkill for the shadetree mechanic IMO. If you're running a shop and tuning 4 cars a day, that's when I'd say their value truly shines.
IDK what else to tell ya. You can d/l EFI Live and a tune from www.holdencrazy.com to play with it yourself. I'm not sure if HPT has a demo though.
11-13-2008, 03:50 PM
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Roadrunner is an ecu with flash add. You will need to but efi live to use it. It is nice but big $$$$. HPT and EFI live are about the same only differant. Make sure you get a wide band O2 so you can set ur A/f ratio corrrectly.
11-13-2008, 04:29 PM
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Actually it has battery backed DRAM not flash ram IIRC.
Also efilive with the road runner will auto tune itself. Just drive it and it tunes itself. Kind of like a feedback loop. I had it for my car and it was brilliant. Especially for sorting timing out on the dyno, very quick and easy.
Also efilive with the road runner will auto tune itself. Just drive it and it tunes itself. Kind of like a feedback loop. I had it for my car and it was brilliant. Especially for sorting timing out on the dyno, very quick and easy.
11-13-2008, 05:03 PM
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You can actually perform some real time tuning with HPTuners. It is a far cheaper alternative.. But in saying that EFI LIVE combined with a Roadrunner is a more powerful solution as you can alter everything in real time and for things like VE tuning it will literally tune itself where as RTT in HPTuners requires user intervention to perform the changes. You get what you pay for. EFI LIVE and Roadrunner is the premium product for these controllers so expect to pay the premium to have it.
11-13-2008, 07:52 PM
#7
HP Tuners Pro version with Real Time Tuning ~$650
EFI V2 + Roadrunner+ Roadrunner license=$1550
So theres a very large price difference for what it is.
For anyone that thinks a roadrunner will tune your vehicle for you I think they need to reevaluate their words as in the end its still up to the tuner to know what tables to use that feature on, when and by how much. That system is only as smart as the tuner and a wrong move in one direction or the other could be potentially dangerous IMO ie what if it starts plugging in the wrong info for some WOT cells & leans you out instead of richening you up at wot...just some food for thought.
Our system uses the factory pcm and allows you to alter 20+ tables in real time and is a simple as copying & pasting adjustments from your histogram right into the table.
Getting up and running is also a very simple 5 minute process
Check out more about our product & RTT at www.hptuners.com
EFI V2 + Roadrunner+ Roadrunner license=$1550
So theres a very large price difference for what it is.
For anyone that thinks a roadrunner will tune your vehicle for you I think they need to reevaluate their words as in the end its still up to the tuner to know what tables to use that feature on, when and by how much. That system is only as smart as the tuner and a wrong move in one direction or the other could be potentially dangerous IMO ie what if it starts plugging in the wrong info for some WOT cells & leans you out instead of richening you up at wot...just some food for thought.
Our system uses the factory pcm and allows you to alter 20+ tables in real time and is a simple as copying & pasting adjustments from your histogram right into the table.
Getting up and running is also a very simple 5 minute process
Check out more about our product & RTT at www.hptuners.com
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11-13-2008, 11:28 PM
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For anyone that thinks a roadrunner will tune your vehicle for you I think they need to reevaluate their words as in the end its still up to the tuner to know what tables to use that feature on, when and by how much. That system is only as smart as the tuner and a wrong move in one direction or the other could be potentially dangerous IMO ie what if it starts plugging in the wrong info for some WOT cells & leans you out instead of richening you up at wot...just some food for thought.
I don't have an issue with you promoting your product. But, I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. There are extensive help files and plenty of people on the EFI forums who are willing to help others out. As with any kind of tuning in general, knowing how to set things up (like the right histograms & how to manipulate the tables in the tune) is just as big of a part of tuning whether you do it manually or with an auto-tune feature. Someone could just as easily increase their IFR table thinking they were adding fuel. That's why it's so important for the tuner to understand the tool being used. No need to install fear one way and not the other.
11-14-2008, 01:42 AM
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For the extra $950 The EFI Roadrunner package is well worth it. The extra capabilities of the EFI LIVE Hardware is a massive incentive to go for the premium product.
11-14-2008, 05:25 AM
#12
Roadrunner has built in USB for its comunatcation. You might be right about the cost of using it with EFI live, but I don't think so, since I spent a lot less then that to buy it with TC's OBD2 setup and it included the ability to flash my finished files in to a regular PCM, when I was done, without limitations on the number of PCM's I flash it too
11-14-2008, 07:51 AM
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I will definitely stay away from the HP Tuners vs EFILive, Roadrunner debate.
While I did go with the EFILive+ Roadrunner system, there were several good points expressed in the previous posts.
Either tuning software requires more than a nominal interest to learn tuning. While it is not calculus, it does involve homework and the mental acuity to apply more than one variable at a time.
As far as the Roadrunner as a tuning tool. For me, it greatly reduced the amount of time making tuning changes on the road. But, I would still consider it an advanced tuning product. Analogous to having a calculator and doing math. Yes a calculator is faster, but you still have to know if what you added or subtracted is correct.
Secondly, making real time changes while driving does usually require a second person in the car. Not recommended to be driving an a spirited manner and utilizing a laptop at the same time.
It is your choice alone as to what tuning software program to utilize. I am just pointing out that learning tuning will not occur overnight, and requires lots of reading, researching, trial and error, and patience.
My humble suggestion would be to read through each software tuning boards, and take one purchase at a time.
Good luck, I have been at it for four months and would say I am about 85% there as far as expertise in tuning my own car.
..WeathermanShawn..
While I did go with the EFILive+ Roadrunner system, there were several good points expressed in the previous posts.
Either tuning software requires more than a nominal interest to learn tuning. While it is not calculus, it does involve homework and the mental acuity to apply more than one variable at a time.
As far as the Roadrunner as a tuning tool. For me, it greatly reduced the amount of time making tuning changes on the road. But, I would still consider it an advanced tuning product. Analogous to having a calculator and doing math. Yes a calculator is faster, but you still have to know if what you added or subtracted is correct.
Secondly, making real time changes while driving does usually require a second person in the car. Not recommended to be driving an a spirited manner and utilizing a laptop at the same time.
It is your choice alone as to what tuning software program to utilize. I am just pointing out that learning tuning will not occur overnight, and requires lots of reading, researching, trial and error, and patience.
My humble suggestion would be to read through each software tuning boards, and take one purchase at a time.
Good luck, I have been at it for four months and would say I am about 85% there as far as expertise in tuning my own car.
..WeathermanShawn..
11-14-2008, 08:37 AM
#14
11-14-2008, 08:48 AM
#15
Bill -
I don't have an issue with you promoting your product. But, I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. There are extensive help files and plenty of people on the EFI forums who are willing to help others out. As with any kind of tuning in general, knowing how to set things up (like the right histograms & how to manipulate the tables in the tune) is just as big of a part of tuning whether you do it manually or with an auto-tune feature. Someone could just as easily increase their IFR table thinking they were adding fuel. That's why it's so important for the tuner to understand the tool being used. No need to install fear one way and not the other.
I don't have an issue with you promoting your product. But, I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. There are extensive help files and plenty of people on the EFI forums who are willing to help others out. As with any kind of tuning in general, knowing how to set things up (like the right histograms & how to manipulate the tables in the tune) is just as big of a part of tuning whether you do it manually or with an auto-tune feature. Someone could just as easily increase their IFR table thinking they were adding fuel. That's why it's so important for the tuner to understand the tool being used. No need to install fear one way and not the other.
For many applications there are 30-60 or more tables that will need to be changed, all of which work with each other for things like fueling, spark, airflow metering & such, autotune really should only be used to dial in 1 of these at a time to its specific needs but if the correct filters aren't used or used properly it would work against the person so while this is obvious to you and I is a not so obvious point to someone just looking to start out in tuning.
And I'm pretty sure the original poster is confused on how much $ getting setup with a roadrunner actually is which is the reason for my original post. An Extra $950 OVER the cost of our product is a big outlay for anyone and would be enough for a cam & some longtubes from my perspective as someone who mods his vehicles
11-14-2008, 10:46 AM
#16
This was posted by one of their resellers yesterday https://ls1tech.com/forums/10466133-post30.html
11-14-2008, 04:49 PM
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11-14-2008, 04:57 PM
#19
Tunercat, will interface with a roadrunner as well as efilive. I'm sure a third party could figure out how to make it work as well, if they wanted. (but why, you can buy those software tools cheap)
not all roadrunners will work as a flash based pcm, and if your using it that way, your spending a lot of money for no reason.
Ryan
not all roadrunners will work as a flash based pcm, and if your using it that way, your spending a lot of money for no reason.
Ryan