Racer's Lounge - analyzing why people 16-25yrs old dont buy F-bodies

Has anybody out there pondered why 80% of kids want there first car to be a import. There dream car is honda civic SI with a fart can and chrome intake and nasty looking body kits. Or even if they have enough money they look right pass F-bodies to look at EVOs,STi,RX7,300Z,Supra's. WHY???
or if they get a domestic its the much slower mustang GT or the V6 STANG(the v6 sales more than the 3800 series &ls1 f-bodies). Talking to some 17 year old at a recent street race gathering he pointed out some interesting points about a 2000 black ws6 ta(nobody was looking at it). He was like look at the car,"long ass over hangs the interior can be mistaken for a mini van, the old 1980's headlights has been out of style for while man,the car is just plain american
crap". I asked if he thought the car was fast and his response was probally a high 14 low 15 second car :eek2:.
What this guy thought is more than likely what most kids his age think. They would rather spend $2,000 on a car then spend $10,000 in upgrades and yet more than likely still not be faster than an Ls1 with basic mods. They also say the car is to expensive for which i agree. It seems GM does not make F-bodies for late teens early 20's anymore. I would say its more for somebody in the late 20's early 30's who at least makes $45,000 a year. Most people that age that wants a sports car would get a Vette or the 350Z for which are both way better cars. The ones that do buy F-bodies usually has owned one before or is trying to live out there childhood dreams of buying a musclecar for which they could not afford back in the day. Even old guys with first and second gens dont like the 4th gens saying that its plastic and they are not real muscle(another thing I love muscle cars but you take any 60's STOCK muscle car and run it against a STOCK Ws6 the Ws6 will out run it all day long and still drive you to work tommorow)car. The 3rd gens just flat out dont get respect from anyone so i can almost understand why kids dont like those. Ive had my 98 ta for two years ive had it 160mph 3 times it run consistent low 13
and it stays at WOT every time i get the chance to hear the loudmouth. The car has 90,000 mile on it now and still run like the day i purchased it. I also have 1985 i spent $15,000 to $20,000 bringing back to life(zz4 tpi)runs mid to low 13's but is nowhere close to reliable. The ls1 puts down the same amount of power has Ac,gets better gas miles and has NEVER broken down. At 22 i dont meet alot of people my age driving ta's. After my 18 yr old friend just purchased a 2000 civic Si for $15,000 instead of buying an lt1 i just needed to say something.

Look at me I'm 16 and my fist car was a 01 SS! My next car is gona be a Vette or a 01/02 WS6 in 5 or so years. They are great cars, and peope think my brothers stang gt is way way faster then my car. I hate ricers, and my dream car is a Z06 with over 500hp to the ground! So we are not all like that just me and and handul of others feel the same as me, hell my best friend is getting a 00 or 01 Vette or WS6.

Your right, but another thing is the insurance companies.
They beat-up F-body owners bad.
'Specially 16-25 year olds.
There is alot of companies that wont even full cover a F-bod with a teen driver.
I think this has an affect on things also.

I got my Z28 when I was 17 (am 20 now), and yes insurance is a bear and yes high school kids nowadays and even a fair amount of the people here on campus (Purdue) just don't get it. They see Fast and Furious and 2F2F (second one was actually good) and think that the Jap cars are fast and it's a cryin' shame :cry:

tell me about it my insurance is 644 a month for full coverage
Not hating on camaross but geez 16 with an 01 SS god damn must me freakin tight i had to bust my ass and save up enough loot to put down on a 98 ls1 that was 3 yrs old w/20,000 miles on it

Oh and I will have a Z06 by the time Im 25 I GUARANTEE

I work at a Honda dealership as a Tech, and A lot of younger guys come in and ask me what They could do to go faster. I have told them many times to buy a better car. They almost always replied that they can not afford the insurance, And if they could they would buy a Supra. Then I ask why in hell would you do that. One answer they always say is T.V. All the shows and movies about imports being fast. Then I get the big question what kind of car do you drive or race. I tell them a Z28 Camaro. Then the stupid remarks "Oh they only run 15's to low 14's"
I try not to get upset about it because they really have no ideal at all. I keep my video camrea at work and I show them a coulpe of run of my car at the track. And they are pretty impress, but it all comes down to that all there friends have imports and there parents drive imports T.V shows has imports so thats what they are going to buy no matter what you or anyone tell them. Thats ok let them buy there Honda's. I can make more money when they buy Honda's and the more money I make the faster my car goes.

Oh and one more thing I would like to add.
There are alot of fast imports that are Civic's
In the northern VA area. And in my area.
But they have a hell of lot more money in there cars then I do in mine.

They may have more money in theirs cars but in the end its still a POS Civic.
Its amazing how the media has warped the youth of today.

Slow01z28 I agree with you theres alot fast imports out here in Va. Hell ive been beat by two ,one handed me my first loss at 135 he blew by me like i was standing still. He recently took me for a ride in it after a spoon B18c5 engine swapp and a t3/t4 hybrid turbo (i hate all this import talk)upgrade.The civic ran a 10.45 et according to G-tec in the car while spinning everytime the boost kicked in. He was running 18 pounds of boost and also had Bf goodridge drags.
Also they dont last that long either he blew his original engine 3 months after beating me. He also told me that it takes alot of shit to make imports out run my car most kids just do basic mods and even a turbo still to lose to a ls1.He has $20,000 invested not including the car(he's a tech at an Acura dealership as well).

Most people don't realize how much power these cars came with stock. I told this one guy what the factory specs were and he was like BS. Then when I showed it to him, he said GM must be lying. He just couldn't believe that a car came with that kind of power for the price.

The biggest reason for the decline of the f-body sell numbers is the lack of advertising of these cars. I've downloaded some ads for the Trans Am (The Muscle Car lives), but I've never seen them on the air here in Los Angeles. I've never seen a Firebird/Camaro/Corvette specific ad for over a decade here. I see plenty for imports. If they advertised it and mentioned the 300 hp+ engine, I think they would have sold better.

Now, I can tell you why my ex-wife wanted a Mustang over the f-body. She only wanted a 6-cylinder engine for gas mileage. She preferred the visibiliy in the Mustange for her 5'4" frame (eg. the blind spot and visibility out the rear window). The f-body was harder to get in and out off. The trunk space sucks.

The same complaints about these cars that have been around for 20 years. All GM needed to do was a little redesign (they were due for one anyway as it had been 10 years) and a better ad campaign and these should have been the best selling cars out there as they were a bargin for the money (particularly the Camaro Z28).

I'm 20yrs old with a 2002 Z28. Most teenagers or young adults can't afford it. The insurance for me is $900 every 2 1/2 months with a perfect driving record. I don't care for most imports, but I understand why the younger crowd has them. Cheaper car, cheaper insurance, cheaper parts and good gas mileage. Can you blame them?

Miner 49 tell me about it people dont know the specs on a ta. I had a guy in a new maxima try to tell me "Aint no redneck PONTIAC have over 300 hp from the factory unless your talking about the one from seventies".:confused:Well i took him for a ride to educate him and he was stunned and speechless at the raw power of the ta.Oh we forgot one of the most biggest complaints that GM refused to fix that all of our girlfriends complain about "the hump"on the passenger side floor board Yall know what im talking about,where the catalytic converter rests. :eek2:

Hell half of the cars from the seventies were lucky enough to have 200hp. Unless they were from 70-74 models.

well, im 21 years old and the z28 is my second car. my first car was an 89 f-150 which i bought when i was 17 back in high school, and i still have because its listed as my primary vehicle (for insurance reasons). thanks to that, i pay $1000 every 6 months for BOTH vehicles, but if the Z was my only/primary vehicle, there is probably no way i would have been able to afford the insurance, and i who knows what i would be driving, but it would NOT be an import.

Im 24 years old and was raised with my dad drilling "Buy american" in my head. I love my WS6 and would trade it for anything. It can get expensive, car payment $530 Insurance $228 a month. Not many 16 year old kids are going to be able to afford that unless daddy pays for it

I'm 19 and I love my TA, been my dream car for like 2 years since my buddy in highschool got a WS6.
The biggest reason that these kids like imports is because they just don't know. Ignorance. My brother, who is still in high school (and can't wait for the GTO, by the way), told me that in his autotech class, some kid said that automatic cars can't run faster than 13's. The teacher quickly shut this down, telling him how the fastest car the previous year was my buddy's mid 11 second auto TA. That shut them up.

it's a sign of the times :(

Alot of teens these days are dumb as hell thinking that civics are fast straight from the factory, and the ones that actually want a TA or a camaro just cant afford it. Well I just turned 17 and I have been driving a S10 Xtreme for a year, and I have been saving up so I can but a WS6 TA, and now my truck is for sale and I am buying a 2000 TA WS6. I can't wait till my truck sells, I drove a TA the other day and they are fast as hell, much faster than a mustang GT. Just thought that I would let you guys know that there are a few kids that can pay for these cars, and know that they are very fast. And the other day I drove my friends civic with the basic modifications, and when I stepped on the gas, I suddenly felt like I had no balls. Those things are slow as hell I would never buy one.

:confused: Ummm... My first car was a F-Body, still is.

just8a5point0 Iknow alot of the Honda's dont last long After all the boost they put to them thats why I said let them buy Honda's so I can make more money :D

Also Dont be fooled that imports get better gas milage Once all the mods start on them the gas milage drops.

Also I dont think its a sign of the times. When all those guys owning imports get older they will buy a faster domestic car. A friend of mine bought a Prelude SI back in 99 and he modded the hell out the car. Guess what the car is in pieces going to put the 3rd motor in it next week, After 3 motor's 6 clutches and a rebuilding of the trans he going to buy a LS1 soon. And the fastest that car went was 14.50 Thats why I dont think its a sign of the times.

Miner49 I agree Gm did not push the sales on the f-body at all. I can remeber the last commercial I saw I guess it was in the eraly 90's.

My first car wasnt a f-body but my second,third, forth and fifth was.

just8a5point0 where in VA are you at?

that is because GM is afraid for their corvette. i can think of two ad campaigns that would work. one, show the Z28, post the hp made at the crank (whatever that is) and price for a stripper. you know, like= "3XXhp, $22k"
secondly, just show a pic of a black WS6, and no catch phrase will even be necessary. hell.. thats what sold me. then when i saw the RWTQ rating.. thats what made me sell whatever body parts i had two of just to get this car

by sign of the times I mean it is a fad, what seems to be popular in this day and age. Kind of like the disco thing in the 70's.

Even for imports a prelude is a poor platform. Poor power/weight ratio.

How many people under the age of 20 actually pay for their F-bodies? I made some pretty serious money for an 18 yr old(30k a year) and still couldn't afford one.
If your not paying for your down payment,monthly payment,insurance,storage,maintanence,mods,etc. Then you are not paying for that car someone else is. It is MUCH easier for someone to start with a Civic or something along those lines and make insurance payments and their monthly payment and still have money for partying and what not.

Other factors such as lack of advertising and no factory supported racing hurt sales.In my opinion nothing affected the F-bodies as much as insurance and initial cost.

I'm 25 and I always wanted a T/A ever since in high school thank god I couldn't afford back then otherwise I would have gotten an LT1 and wouldn't be driving an LS1 today :hail:

I am only 15 and my dad bought me a 2000camaro ss after seeing how much i loved cars, we built up a 68 camaro i was going to get the 68 until we put a 435hp engine in it and 4:11 rear end (=6-8 miles to the gallon) but i have done everything to my car and cant wait till i turn 16 you can see all my mods in my signature but i hate imports all the kids at my school think a stock acura integra can beat my ss i dont even try to convince them because after seeing fast and the furious that makes them know everything about cars and by the way both of those movies sucked ok im just letting off some steam and telling you guys that i know alot of kids my age hate imports and know the truth about cars but since the camaro and trans-am are discountinued everybody thinks well if they dont make them any more their has to be something wrong with them but those are the people who also think stock imports are faster :usa:

im 22 and just bought my first fbod and ls1 in july 03. even with a perfect credit rating and 5k down payment i couldnt get a loan approval. i had been trying to get an 01 ws6.

after the realization that a loan wasnt gonna happen i bought a highe mileage 98 camaro for 10k and financed 6200. my monthly car and insurance payments together are 316 :D.

well...it took my ass 4 years to get my HOSS, i had a 95 v6 with that curse 3.4 in it...it did have ttops though, but i am paying for it myself. Im in school and wrk prob 25 hrs a week, but then again, i got a good rate, and my payments are only 285 a month..so not too bad, just keeps my mods goin painfully slow...but at least i got my car :drive:

Its definitely the insurance and the price of these cars (new). Now that there are quite a few used LS1s out there, several selling for under $10K, a younger crowd will be able to afford them. $500/month payments are no joke to someone making less than $30K a year.

My first car was a '69 Camaro, but I could only afford liability insurance on it. Even that was like $120/month, back in 1990. In college, I drove beaters and trucks (cheap insurance) and finally bought a new sports car when I turned 25 - a new Mustang GT.

But, kids that think Civics are performance cars are just clueless. I feel sorry for them. Its one thing to not be able to afford a V8 sports car, but its another thing to be ignorant and think that Civics are performance cars.

Tony

Kids thaat think civics are fast are fucking stupid those are the slowest pieces of shit I have ever seen. How do you guys think I am doing, I am 17 and my parents make me pay for everything, gas, insurance, the car, and many other things. Good thing I make alot of money. I have my S10 Xtreme up for sale and I am buying a 2000 WS6 TA. The thing that sucks though is that they won't let me take out a loan so I have pay for it in cash, so I had to save up. I would have bought it when I was 16 but I diidn't have the money, so I saved up. So how do you guys think I am doing.

one word "insurance"

Shrug, i'm 19. My first car was a stang....yeah I learned the hard way :lol:

I already talked to the insurance company and I am going to be paying 2000 a year, and I can afford the insurance

All the kids my age and younger DROOL over my car.. and mine doesn't look NEAR as good as a lot of f-bods.

All the kids my age and younger DROOL over my car.. and mine doesn't look NEAR as good as a lot of f-bods.


same here. Got mine in 2001. Payed for half of it. And I pay for the insurance and gas and everything that goes wrong with it. My insurance is about 240 a month. I go to college and make a little over 12,000 a year. But I can't complain. And im 19

I'm 25 and I always wanted a T/A ever since in high school thank god I couldn't afford back then otherwise I would have gotten an LT1 and wouldn't be driving an LS1 today :hail:



Same here. I went to buy one in 96' got a quote on insurance and scrapped the idea. Just recently bought a 98'. I'm now kind of glad I had to wait because I like the LS1 powered cars alot better.I turned 26 at the beginning of this month.

Started with a '66 Bug ($53/mo Liability only), '97 V6 Camaro, for sale, ($120/mo 50/100/50), now have a '99 SS ($117/mo 50/100/50). I am 24 right now. And I don't have insurance out of some guys trunk. Liberty Mutual.

I agree with nineball.its insurance.it just kills the younger crowd if they get one of this.all I can say is:their is no replacement for displacement.they can have their import.

That is so true, my insurance is $3,800 a year!!! (Insured under my mom as an occasianal driver)I have to make over $60 a week, and still buy gas, still play sports, and still have a life! But it is well well worth it, my friends make fun of me because I always drive everywhere, but hey. If they had this car and payed this much they would too. my best friend is getting a Vette, an 2000, or a 2001. It is 100% true because his dad and I have talked about it. Like him, I wanted a WS6 because of the pure shock and awe look to them but couldn't find one under $20,000. Imports suck, there are kids who think a car is fast because it has 4 cyld., NAAWWWWSSSSSS, a Turbo, a body kit, "10hp stereo", and a shit load of decals. I have the fastest car in my school, and 2nd is a stang GT, 3rd a 5.0 stang, 4th another 5.0 stang, and 5th a 99 Eclipse that has almost 30k in it that is parts not the car either. His little shiter is turboed, and juiced 150 shot, and can only get a mid 14 in the 1/4! The 2nd place kid in the 5.0 is moded to hell, and runs mid 14s or slower, his 1/8 time is 10s. HAHAHA!!!. But I am mostly stock, and my car looks stock. The kid in the 5.0 talked alot of shit before the race, then I handed him his ass, and he talked more shit again. So my bro in his stock GT handed him his ass too so he has faded away and shut up. He has an X cam, LT headers, 650 Edelbrock cam, BBK H-pipe, new Edelbrock intake. Lotsa money to go no where on both cars long live the LS1!!!!!!

All the kids my age and younger DROOL over my car.. and mine doesn't look NEAR as good as a lot of f-bods.



Wow we got the same car except mine is a 99. Now consider how they sould drool if you put these on it.

http://tsplant.com/uploads/Girls/neomail_002.jpeg

http://tsplant.com/uploads/Girls/neomail_oo3.jpeg

http://tsplant.com/uploads/Girls/neomail_004.jpeg

http://tsplant.com/uploads/Girls/neomail.jpeg

And it only cost me $200. I like the color it gave my car and I get compliments on it all the time.

As for the kids today. I have to agree that the two main reasons for thier lack of interest is the insurance cost and lack of advertising. Plus TFATF didn't help any either. It was a popular movie that glamorised imports to the youth today. I guess I'm a hard core american because I have never owned an import in my life for one reason.

I want to do my part to help keep our workers employed and buy american. Anyway it's a shame how the Insurance companies rape the under 25 single male. I know some people have givin outragous numbers like 6k a year for insurance. For that much money I better be getting a good looking hooker dropping off my bill and staying the night. My wife would kill us both but you know what I mean.

prolly insurance...

Though I bought my F-Body when I was 20 ... insurance wasn't bad but I had the car in my dads name and a beater car in my name... now I'm 23 own an F-Body and a GTP and paying my own insurance (both cars in my name) and it's not that bad... (2100/year, 2 new cars, both w/full coverage)

I bought my first one when I was 20 it was a 1980 Z28 with a mild built up 355 it ran high 13's with traction issues. Then when I was 23 I raced my freinds S/C 96 TA and got my ass handed to me. I planned to build the 80 up and get crazy with it but one boring day I test drove 00 TA 6 speed 2 hours later I was signing the papers and buying it :D That was when I was 24, didnt need a co-signer or anything and the insurance isnt to bad $800 a year with full coverage as long as I keep the 93 dakota as my pimary driver.

i didnt read the whole post, but its obvious.

Girls dont know the difference. When a car "looks fast" it must be fast in a girls mind. why would someone put on that huge wing, or front bumper if it wasnt fast? why would they need racing seats? etc..

girls come up to me all the time and tell me about their friends "really" fast civic :zzz:

prolly insurance...

Though I bought my F-Body when I was 20 ... insurance wasn't bad but I had the car in my dads name and a beater car in my name... now I'm 23 own an F-Body and a GTP and paying my own insurance (both cars in my name) and it's not that bad... (2100/year, 2 new cars, both w/full coverage)



same here, i pay about 2100 a year also, but i listed my truck as my primary car to lower the insurance. if the Z was my primary, the insurance rates would be almost double of what i pay now :eek2:

Sorry, tried a new link to pics and it failed again. I give up.

350Z's are crap, imports are a joke no matter how fast they are, they're for kids who want a fast car because they saw the special effects on 2f2f, but sadly have never been to a drag race or ridden in a car with muscle.

I'm 18, a full time student and a plumber with a Z28.
Here is the story of my Z:
Always wanted a TA since I was old enough to notice fast cars. starting at seven, I worked every summer/christmas for a down payment. At 14 my parents bought me a $500 Jimmy(always died) to drive until I could afford my car, last Christmas I went to buy my new TA ws6 and saw a white Z28,test drove both and the Z won. That night I had to get my dad out there because the car would be a couple thousand cheaper in the long run if we did "some skrewy loop hole in the system" where everything was in my name (payments,insurence etc..) but the car itself was signed to him (I'm cosigner). Now every penny I earn goes to the payments during college and I do a mod a month during summer!...thats why normal kids don't get new f-bodys...

If you've never been to Lubbock TX:
1. The ricers always wreck their car the first month they glue the skirt and fart can on :jest:
2. There is at least one f-body at every stop light
(even have TA cop cars)
:usa: !paradise! :usa:

My dream car is a 4th gen Trans AM ws6, but with my insurance at 4 grand a year because im 18 doesnt allow me to live that dream. So i bought a 97 3.8L Firebird 5 speed and pretend i drive a 350 with my SLP Loud Mouth Roaring from behind me. I love my car, but cant wait to sell it for the TA.

I'm 19 and I'm about to buy an LT1. I can't afford full coverage so I have had to save up till I can buy one with cash and get liability only. Oh well. :cheers:

What most ricers fail to understand (until they get nailed by it) is that no insurance company out there is going to cover 10 grand worth of aftermarket bodywork, or 10 grand worth of aftermarket engine/drivetrain work for the cost of basic insurance. You own a Civic with an $80 a month insurance bill and you can flat out forget about that insurance company covering any more then the stock value/repair costs of that car. You can get additional coverage for aftermarket modifications, but that of course costs more money. Same really goes for our 4th gen LS1 cars with 5 grand in engine work and 5 grand in drivetrain work. The good part is minor accidents rarely damage the engine/drivetrain, meaning the insurance companies will cover costs of bodywork repairs. Total that vehicle though and you're going to want to buy back the salvaged vehicle and strip off as many of those go-fast goodies as are still in functional shape. I know this because a buddy of mine was in this very situation with his heavily modded 91 Z28 after it got t-boned by a Lexus SUV. Wasn't his fault, but the insurance company would only give him book value of a stock 91 Z28, which covered about half the money he soaked into the car (not including the cost of the car itself) However, he was able to buy the salvaged vehicle for like $700, buy another Z28 with the insurance money, and swap the majority of parts onto the newly purchased vehicle (he bought a 90 Z, same generation, one year older, but not even half the miles)

There was also a fella here in Manchester NH that soaked almost 10 grand in a body kit and custom chameleon paint job for his Civic, only to have it horribly vandalized about two months later. Insurance reimbursed him just enough to get it back to stock appearance. He was my roommates co-worker, and as far as I could tell a real D**khead as well, but I don't abide by vandalizing anybody's property, no matter how distasteful I find that persons preferences. The guy may have been a complete jerk, but he did work his ass off for that car, and I never got a chance to lay some smack down against him as a result. ;)

Im 19 now and bought my Z this summer. My payments are about 150 a month, so its not bad at all. My parents pay for the insurance though. My first car was a Monte Carlo Z34. I was challenged saturday night by "the fastest civic around" it has no backseat, full bolt ons and racing seats. His PB is 15.6. He is gonna be spraying a 100 shot when we race. Im still not worried one bit.

I used to drive an '01 Dakota R/T & modded it to hell & all I could run is a 14.0 & was getting tired of not seeing 13's. I had many races in that thing and stomped tons of slightly modded SS's WS-6's, Saleens & everything, but Dodge never built up the thing to be modded so it broke alot and I couldn't afford to keep fixing it. So I traded it in cuz I knew parts were way cheaper and ALOT easier to find, way more fun to drive & has more potential for mods.

I'm glad I switched sides. :guns: Bye Bye R/T

Oh & I'm paying about $2800 a year on insurance and $445 a month being 24...can't wait till I turn 25 when it cuts in half.

you know, i have been in the army for 8 years now, and i still see kids comming in fresh off the street saving every penny of their paychecks just to buy a civic or a v6 stang. every one of them knows i drag race and they know how fast my ss is. almost any of them could afford the same kind of cars. But they just dont like them. I asked one of my new privateswhy, and his responce was "lets take your 2000 ss and my 2003 civic with my paint and body kit down to the colledge, and see what the girls think about our cars" then it all made perfect since to me. its not that the media has warped the mans image about cars, but that it has warped the young girls image of what is a cool car, and by doing this the male will always follow their basic needs in life.

Well most people in ym school arent into that whole gook era like fast n furious shit, but im 17 and my first car was a 02 dodge ram 1500 that I paid for but i got tired of it and bought a 98 trans am that was lowered with chrome ZR1 wheels and a ws6 hood thats like 3 inches bigger then the factory one and all it has is flowmasters and an airlid. I did want a mustang gt or cobra but everybody started gettin one so i switched to a t/a :) Right now I have the best looking trans am in town, but the fastest.....yet :)

when I was looing for my first car the one thing that was manditory was that it had to be a Chevy. I never really looked much at f-bodies because they weren't in my price range. But looking through the autotrader one day I found a 93 Black Z28 with 120k miles on it with a decent price. I fell in love right away and the ironic thing was the car was actually 2 miles down the road from me. My step dad went and drove the car and checked it out. They said the price was still a little more than they wanted to spend. I begged like I had never begged before, both to my parents and to the guy selling and finally ended up with the car. Had the car for 2 years. Sold it to get the '01 Z I have now. I guess the insurance thing worked out for me cause I'm a chick ($134/month). I love my Camaros and don't think I could see myself driving anything else.

Oh & I'm paying about $2800 a year on insurance and $445 a month being 24...can't wait till I turn 25 when it cuts in half.



yeaa ill be celebrating my 25th with a huge smile on my face, but i still have 3 more years to go :cry:

6 years here. :(

when I was looing for my first car the one thing that was manditory was that it had to be a Chevy. I never really looked much at f-bodies because they weren't in my price range. But looking through the autotrader one day I found a 93 Black Z28 with 120k miles on it with a decent price. I fell in love right away and the ironic thing was the car was actually 2 miles down the road from me. My step dad went and drove the car and checked it out. They said the price was still a little more than they wanted to spend. I begged like I had never begged before, both to my parents and to the guy selling and finally ended up with the car. Had the car for 2 years. Sold it to get the '01 Z I have now. I guess the insurance thing worked out for me cause I'm a chick ($134/month). I love my Camaros and don't think I could see myself driving anything else.



If your a chick and love Camaro's you will make some guy a lucky fellow :D

Im 21 and have owned my hawk for over a year now and someone can pry the keys out of my cold dead hands someday. Its not to bad payments are 420 a month and 150 a month for insurance (no points) :D, Still my blazer is only like 45 a month for full coverage, so 150 isnt that great.

Nice car ta12sec, but whats up with the socks and sandals? :D

No offense, but a 16 year old with an LS1 powered car is a scary thought. I'm glad you don't see many in hands of people that young. I know my judgement sucked at 16, I thought I was never gonna get hurt. I hope they don't hurt themselves or anyone else...

I think its as much an insurance reason as it is just plain ignorance. A guy down the street had an integra type r, he sold it and bought a vette. He told me the insurance was cheaper on the vette!he said it was becuase the integras get stolen alot. Insurance sure does suck though.

I have 3 vehicles and I am 22 years old.
1999 chev s10 xtreme: $812 a year
2001 TA: $2346 a year
2003 kawasaki Zx6r: $306 a year (plpd)

I have owned a 1983 Olds Delta 88, 1987 Olds Cutlass Supreme, 1987 Mustang GT, 1992 Lumina Z34, and my 1999 SS. I don't understand or want to understand the whole import thing. My insurance was $1500 every six months when I bought my SS after I got my first job out of college. I turned 25 and it dropped to $1200, and now with a 1992 Lumina as a daily driver it is $913. That has to be the reason, insurance is a killer on these cars. I don't get the minivan interior comment, but who understands ricers anyway. My next insurance break comes if I get married. Maybe I should look into that. :jest:

I agree with you on that. These rice burners spend $10-20 g's for their little 4bangers to keep up with us stock. My friend has an SI he has spent a little over 11 grand just to get the car and then he spent another 11 for upgrades and other mods. I must admit though his car is fuckin fast as shyt. He is running 11.34 in the quarter, which is fuckin respectable for a 4banger. N E wayz I agree with the fact that insurance doesnt cover n e of the after market products. He has to worry about his turbo getting stolen or even his whoel car. These days civics and all types of rice burners are just getting robbed left and right. When have you heard of a Ta getting stolen? Not to often at least down here where I stay at. :)

I bought my Camaro right after I turned 19, never wanted anything else...And I paid the same for my car as a friend that got a new 99' Civic Si.

I have a roomate that bought a 2003 RSX type S and the whole time was talking shit before he bought it. He had never ridden in my 99, so when we got back and we both got our cars, I shut him up really quick. He also had a buddy that bought one and after getting eaten by me a few times. has now decided to spend nearly $10,000 on a new turbo kit, but has to change the internals, injectors, fuel rail, everything, I finally did talk him into resleeving it though. But when he gets done he "expects" to be at almost 400rwhp. I still doubt it, but I won't put it out until I see it on the dyno. Either way, He spent almost 30,000 just on the car, and is about tro spend another 10 just so he can try to beat me. I told him, I only spent $10,000 on my 98Z and if I were to put $30,000 into it, you wouldn't be able to control the thing. Sometimes all it takesis to show them what these things can do.

I'm 21, have tons of bills(my fault :D) and drive a 99 Grand Am and as soon as I get myself a better paying job and better credit I plan on getting an LS1 F-body or maybe a Turbo Buick :D

Hey Z289899.... I was reading on another thread about your issue with ISABEL..... I had the same issue w/ both my 85 and my 98 TA. I used the ideas they gave u, about storing it at a hospital which is what I did. N E wayz glad to know your f-body wasnt messed up.. :drive:

I got my T/A when I was seventeen. Of course I got lucky and don't have to pay for it or insurance. Back when I was a freshman in high school my parents made the deal that if I would become the valedictorian of my class, and get my college paid for they would buy me what ever car (within reason) that I wanted. The only two cars I considered were a WS.6 or a SS. So even though I don't have to "work" to pay for it, I still had to work to get it. Now I just have to keep the good grades up through college. :p

Nice car ta12sec, but whats up with the socks and sandals?


:D.............
Thanks for the compliment on the car
The socks and sandels are becuase at work I have to wear boots, cant wear boots with no socks, so I clean the car at work, then I punch out, then I drive to a park and take pictures lastly I go home and take off my socks.

first car 96 lt1, 2nd car 02 ls1...currently 20yrs old 1st car at 17

I expected a lot of responses like this. There are a lot of us out here that bleed american muscle. Hell, I own two Camaros, and I'm only 18. The only way I'd ever buy an import is if it was an old piece of shit that I could beat on.

I am quite resposable when it comes to driving. I don't do anything to put others in danger, except when I race, but that is expected. My friends are always coaxing me to do dumb stuff, but what the fuck do they know, they think I keep my car too clean! Too clean, is that posible? A car that has 350hp from the factory, and is faster then almost all imports, and all I ask is that it has no shit inside. I will not allow more then one passenger, no backseaters! I make my one passenger click their heels like Dorthy before then get in and they complain. THEN WALK!!!!! Well, haveing said that, I am resposible, and don't do anything to put others in danger. The foolish stuff is left for me and me alone when I'm in the mood that isn't too often. :secret:

i would have bought a maro, but i found the chevelle, which is a hell of a lot faster, and better looking than any maro i could get 4 the 5k i paid for the velle

When I was 17, I looked nowhere except the F-body. A friend (ex town mayor's son of the town I live in) showed me an brochure of a Camaro and when I saw the page of a SS (the 1999 brochure) i fell for that car and never looked back. Did extenstive research, went to the local dealer, took a few dealers to try but one of them who complied with no trouble (the rest except the one i purchased it from wanted my parents credit info and shit which i refuse to give them since I do not want them involved in the purchase)

Took a test drive in the M6 and the A4 Z28's and the torque is one of the main points.

Insurance is another story i rather not go thru again...

I was looking into a third gen(Cause I couldnt afford a fourth gen), but my uncle(Owns his own towing/repair service) got in a 99 Escort ZX2 on a police call(For Drug Dealing). The car was never picked up so he filed for the title, and my dad bought it from him. I dunno how much, but im guessing around $1500. It has a lot of miles (92k), when it came in a cylinder wasent firing, but a simple plug wire replacement fixed that. It has two tiny dents in the door panel, but Its pretty cool. In only 15, so I have like 4 months till i get my license. I am really wondering what insurance will be though. I promise yall I wont rice it out though. :cheers:

No offense, but a 16 year old with an LS1 powered car is a scary thought. I'm glad you don't see many in hands of people that young. I know my judgement sucked at 16, I thought I was never gonna get hurt. I hope they don't hurt themselves or anyone else...




I agree. Even though Im gettin my car pretty soon, I wouldnt ever expect my parents to buy me a 300+hp car for only a 16 year old. Mostly kids my age, are very wreckless, especially with a 300+hp car. :cheers:

Insurance costs if I had to guess

I'm 18, and have been reading about fbody's since I was 15, when I bought my truck (ls1 based however), I was quoted an astronomical price of nearly 10,000 a year on full coverage insurance. I was only a couple weeks away from being 17 then. I went yesterday to look at a different company's price on insurance (I wish I would have done this earlier, but parents did not want to go through two companies.) and was quoted around $318 for full coverage from State Farm. I'm in the process of finding a reasonable priced, decent milage F-Body. I've always loved V8 cars, the sound, the performance etc. Yet I also grew up listening to my dad tell stories about his 70 GTO, and my uncle's Malibu. Most of my good friends all have hotrods, from a 55 Chevy Truck, 65 Ford Truck, Chevelle's and 67-71 Chevys and a few with mid 80s Chevy Trucks.
I have a few friends with Fbody's and I love the performance and styling etc of them. There are plenty of guys around here who try to feed me info on how fast their honda is etc, and my RCSB truck hands it to them (which says alot considering I run 10 flat in the 1/8th...) Many of the guys my age think Honda's are fast because they rev quick or sound 'good' or something. I am guessing most of them have never really ridden in a fast car, have friends with a fast car, or they never heard of driving American.

Alot of the guys out there are uneducated on what they have, and dont understand anything other than a air intake and header (still funny typing 'header' instead of headerS) and exhaust.
One guy last night told me he got 12rwhp on his 99z28 by putting a resistor in the IAT sensor..... ? never heard of yall doing that.... I guess those of us on the board that are young are a few of the smarter ones...

Brandon,
There a timimg tricker one can put in their LS1, keeps the Powertrain Control Module from pulling timing if the temps rise. Niffy little device if you are always sure you have enough octane to prevent detonation. Who wants to trick their car into a knock situation? If you are sure you're not going to knock then its probably a good mod, if/when it comes into play. At the same time there are knock sensors so I'm not sure if the thing is going to jack in the end.
Regards,

Im 18 and my first car was a 79 CJ 5; got that when I was 16. Rebuilt it custom, gained appreciation for tools, and learned a lot.

Now I have a 99 T/A and love it. Why do kids want imports? I dunno. It's like a fashion trend. They think they are in fast n the furious or something. All my friends drive em and I cant stand their cars. I think they are scared of the LS1...

I had the car for a year, and made payments on it. Im a freshman in college now, so my dad has the car. But I get it back next year. It's under his name because he is the one with the credit, good credit I might ad. When I am home I work my ass off to pay for it and all the other shit I spend my money on. making a $319/month payment isnt that hard to make as an 18 year old. Insurance is another thing, luckily they let me chip in for that and they take care of the rest. I cant wait to go home at xmas time a drive...

im 20 years old in college right now, working at autozone part time while trying to start an e-business...as of right now i drive a maxima...when i was looking at cars i wanted an import because my parents drilled it into my head that i wouldnt be able to afford anything else and a 300hp rear wheel drive car just isnt practical for an everyday car in new england, i bought the maxima because it was one of the faster imports i could afford, I to in high school wanted a honda but i thank god everyday i never bought one...i have a friend of mine who owns a civic and did the usuall integra ls swap and it sucks, after 4 grand he can now run 16's...after both of us were let down by his car, we both kinda lookin in his garage at his dad's 2 vettes and decided we were goin american next year, hes buying a grand national and im buyin an ls1...i think a lot has to do with the movies and kids trying to fit in...i have a respect for some imports like the sti and evo's because their more then just a straight line car and really cant be beatin as far as being versitile cars...but 30 grand for a subaru...no thanks...nothing replaces the chunky sound of a muscle car at WOT period...and now that fbody's arent being made anymore its better that these "rice" kids arent familiar with them...makes it that much more fun when you pull up next to one....im gonna have to stop typing now...this talk of ls1's is makin me want one even more :( ...

i'm now 18. i started with a 90 nissan maxima se, then a 93 lexus sc400. Neighter of these cars were my choice they were both hand me downs. The lexus was a nice car due to the class factor but it was no fun. i sold the lexus about 3 months ago and bought my first f body, something i have wanted for quite a while and i have to say i wouldn't have it unless my parents were paying insurance.i'm now in college and i catch alot of shit for driving my trans am because it is such a good looking car, even though it is stock.

There is only one explanation for the civic crowd, stupidity. why buy a slow car and try to make it fast when you can buy a fast car and make it faster? besides when u see a kid in his fwd car with a wing on the rear which takes traction off the front wheels can u really give him any credit? nope

im 20 years old in college right now, working at autozone part time while trying to start an e-business...as of right now i drive a maxima...when i was looking at cars i wanted an import because my parents drilled it into my head that i wouldnt be able to afford anything else and a 300hp rear wheel drive car just isnt practical for an everyday car in new england, i bought the maxima because it was one of the faster imports i could afford, I to in high school wanted a honda but i thank god everyday i never bought one...i have a friend of mine who owns a civic and did the usuall integra ls swap and it sucks, after 4 grand he can now run 16's...after both of us were let down by his car, we both kinda lookin in his garage at his dad's 2 vettes and decided we were goin american next year, hes buying a grand national and im buyin an ls1...i think a lot has to do with the movies and kids trying to fit in...i have a respect for some imports like the sti and evo's because their more then just a straight line car and really cant be beatin as far as being versitile cars...but 30 grand for a subaru...no thanks...nothing replaces the chunky sound of a muscle car at WOT period...and now that fbody's arent being made anymore its better that these "rice" kids arent familiar with them...makes it that much more fun when you pull up next to one....im gonna have to stop typing now...this talk of ls1's is makin me want one even more :( ...





I like the way you think. :)
I, too, hope too many ricers dont catch on to the LS1 Fbodies. We already have enough of these cars with gay bodykits and chromalusion paintjobs.

There's no doubt that the two reasons for younger kids to buy import are price and insurance. I grew up driving a 67 camaro and was fortunate. As a manufacturer in the aftermarket, we have seen many 'fad cars' come and go over the years. We have to evaluate all these applications. But I will say this - as die hard Corvette as I am, my 02 Civic Si is a blast to drive for an everyday car. It handles great, has a whopping 160 hp,:eek2: and the engine winds to 8K. I can see why that would be attractive to younger kids with an 18K price tag. In a few years it'll be all about some other car type or fad, just wait and see.

Bottom line is the F-Bodies and Vettes will always be popular!

I'm 16 and own a 1998 Z28. Friend of mine that's 18 own a Z06 and his first vehicle was a Lightning.

Because they are badass

dynoed my 02 ws6 333.4 and 338.7 tq cat back and lid. same night same dyno 350z cat back fipk 228 hp and 230 tq

Your right, but another thing is the insurance companies.
They beat-up F-body owners bad.
'Specially 16-25 year olds.
There is alot of companies that wont even full cover a F-bod with a teen driver.
I think this has an affect on things also.




Mine wouldnt insure me. Thats why I got stuck with a 3800. But some day my friend, soon there WILL be a LT1 in there, and I'll pull one over on the insurance ass clowns. Thats what I would like to believe though.

I am 20 and I will be buying an ls1 fbody in a couple months when i have the money. I think the reason young people aren't interested in fbodies today is because they have never had the experience of driving a muscle car. I have had many people ask "why are you so set on getting a fast car" and I reply with "have you ever driven a muscle car?" And most of them never have. They've never driven a car with torque so they have no concept of it. I never thought about owning a muscle car until my brother let me drive his modded 5.0 when I was 16, and since then I can't even think about owning a car with a 4 banger and no torque. Insurance does suck though.

I think a lot of the ricer craze is because of the parents too. their kid turns 16 and they want them to have a safe dependable car. they can pick up a new civic for around $15000. they figure the kid is going to drive the wheels off the thing anyway so they don't care if their kid puts a wing on it and if it has the fart can exhaust it just means the kid can't sneak out at night. the only reason I got to pick my first car was because I bought it myself (69 Camaro)

I don't know if this is the best site to try to ask that question.

well when i first got my licence my first car was a 83 z-28 that i fixed up, i put a whole new interior in it new paint, exhaust, etc. alot of ppl even thought it was a early 90's it looked that good. i also had an 85 trans am (project car) the same time. then i went and got a 94 camaro. now i have a 99 ws6 (and a few other cars) and i'm only 21. i have ALWAYS hated rice and never understood why people think they are so great. "a car like a camaro is to high for insurance" well a REAL import like a tt supra isn't gonna be cheep either. oh and i read on here someone said the 3rd gen's don't get any respect anymore, personaly i wish i still had mine and plan on getting another someday.

My 30 year old son likes american muscle cars,he is currently building a 71 camaro.My 20 year old son bought a 92 3000GT VR4..without even talking to us about the purchase.My 20 yrs. old son thinks imports are the shit,he drove the 3000GT for a year and blew up the motor and let it get repoed,he paid $12,000 for a car with over 100,000 miles on it....go figure....i think it's all about marketing.

Even if the insurance was the same price for an f-body vs a import,i think many(not all) young guys would still buy an import.My son proved this point. :bang:

wait you have a 30year old son..and you're saying "are the shit"..?

by the way i'm 21, live in the city (nj). ls1 it is.

Well again I post in this thread. My car is a 2001 SS A4. I'm 16 ad this is my first car. My best friends car is a 2000 SS M6. He is 16 and i is also his first car. We both never looked at anything without an LS1. Plane and simple. These cars do not apeal to teens because of ignorance. That is it, I have been told that a GT, Civic, Integra, and Supra could hand me my ass in a little bag yet I still have yet to lose to a GT, Civic, Integra, and Supra ever. I know many people who would never dream of owning an F-bod. They say they are "ugly"? What ever, as long as they don't get into the hands of ricers, that is all that matters. My next car is a Silver WS6. Keep hope alive........keep hope alive.

I think that every point brought up regarding the subject of this thread is valid. I am not sure you can single out any one reason for most folks in the 16-25 year old range not buying American muscle. Things have changed tremendously since I was 16-18. My first car(legally driven) was a 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner, 383, 4 speed that I bought when I was 18. It was cheap $1400, clean and pretty quick. Insurance was 400 bucks a year. It only cost $5-6 to fill with leaded premium and got 18 mpg on the road. No one I knew then would have even considered driving an import for performance unless they had BIG $ and could afford Porsches or the Italian exotica. I sold my RR 23 years ago and regret it to this day. It took me 21 years to be able to afford another “muscle” car and finally bought the 2001 WS6 in my sig. I will NOT make the same mistake twice. I am certainly encouraged by the number of 15-2X guys posting here who know what American muscle is about! I would have never guessed that based on the number of young guys(girls) in my area who drive F-bodys or Mustangs. It is you that will help to keep the performance flame alive with the US manufacturers in the future. IF you ever get tired of F-body’s, buy a GTO, or new Mustang or whatever GM, Ford, Chrysler may make. That is the only way this will keep going. Thanks to all you younger guys for buying American Muscle even though it may not be the most popular thing to do these days!

john

Insurance sucks on these cars. My 3.8 only costs me $170 a month in my name, but a Z28 would have been twice that. I don't see how other people my age (I'm 18) can afford an LS1 f-body without parental help. My car payment,insurance, and gas together run only $400 a month because I spent two years saving to put half my Camaro down at signing. It is sad when you are my age and a V8 car's insurance is running more than the payment. That, and the fact that GM never advertised these cars. How many commercials have any of you ever seen with an f-body in them. I know of one, back a few years ago. One, in how many years. No one really knows much about these cars. If they knew just how much HP they had (LS1's of course :)) then they would sell much better. Anywho, that's my take on it.

We younguns are out there guys. 21 here and I own a 2000 WS6 that I bought and financed by myself. I pay my own insurance and everything. I bought it when I was 20.

My Friend also bought a 96 Camaro SS, he is 21. He bought it when he was 20. He wrecked it into a mountain and then bought a 1997 Corvette. Parents helped him on that one.

Another friend of mine bought a 99 30th WS6, He just turned 21. Bought it himself.

We all go to the local ricer hangouts and talk trash to them. Then when they cant take it anymore we smoke them by buslengths.

Educating one ricer at a time.

Has anybody out there pondered why 80% of kids want there first car to be a import. There dream car is honda civic SI with a fart can and chrome intake and nasty looking body kits. Or even if they have enough money they look right pass F-bodies to look at EVOs,STi,RX7,300Z,Supra's. WHY???
or if they get a domestic its the much slower mustang GT or the V6 STANG(the v6 sales more than the 3800 series &ls1 f-bodies). Talking to some 17 year old at a recent street race gathering he pointed out some interesting points about a 2000 black ws6 ta(nobody was looking at it). He was like look at the car,"long ass over hangs the interior can be mistaken for a mini van, the old 1980's headlights has been out of style for while man,the car is just plain american
crap". I asked if he thought the car was fast and his response was probally a high 14 low 15 second car :eek2:.
What this guy thought is more than likely what most kids his age think. They would rather spend $2,000 on a car then spend $10,000 in upgrades and yet more than likely still not be faster than an Ls1 with basic mods. They also say the car is to expensive for which i agree. It seems GM does not make F-bodies for late teens early 20's anymore. I would say its more for somebody in the late 20's early 30's who at least makes $45,000 a year. Most people that age that wants a sports car would get a Vette or the 350Z for which are both way better cars. The ones that do buy F-bodies usually has owned one before or is trying to live out there childhood dreams of buying a musclecar for which they could not afford back in the day. Even old guys with first and second gens dont like the 4th gens saying that its plastic and they are not real muscle(another thing I love muscle cars but you take any 60's STOCK muscle car and run it against a STOCK Ws6 the Ws6 will out run it all day long and still drive you to work tommorow)car. The 3rd gens just flat out dont get respect from anyone so i can almost understand why kids dont like those. Ive had my 98 ta for two years ive had it 160mph 3 times it run consistent low 13
and it stays at WOT every time i get the chance to hear the loudmouth. The car has 90,000 mile on it now and still run like the day i purchased it. I also have 1985 i spent $15,000 to $20,000 bringing back to life(zz4 tpi)runs mid to low 13's but is nowhere close to reliable. The ls1 puts down the same amount of power has Ac,gets better gas miles and has NEVER broken down. At 22 i dont meet alot of people my age driving ta's. After my 18 yr old friend just purchased a 2000 civic Si for $15,000 instead of buying an lt1 i just needed to say something.

I'm on my 3rd fbody and I'm 21 years old (and only for a few months). A couple years back I had a SS convert auto for a month, sold it (was buying selling cars at that time).

Picked up my 01 z28 heads/cam car in april of this year, and wrecked it in july in a rainstorm. I have been wanting another one since... Just picked up my 02 ws6 the other week, and I love it.

The 01 ran 11.68@119mph on drag radials best time before headers when it did 390 rwhp, never got it to the track again with the headers after it did 402 rwhp. My 'other' ride was a dodge dakota r/t club cab (4800 lbs) that did 365 rwhp, 538 rwtq.

I traded the rt in for my 12k mile 02 ws6 6spd car. Already gettina nitrous kit on it (it was meant for the z28), lid/shifter/cat back/maf and anything else i can do that wont void the warranty is goin on (got 1 year left.. and yes i know nitrous voids the warranty).

dude where did you dig this thread up at?

dude where did you dig this thread up at?

not sure.. i was surfin.. found it.. posted up

my first car was an fbody....but i had to buy a six because of the outrageous nj insurance....but i saved a couple of years and matured my driving habits and now at 21 have an 01 ws6....I'm glad i went the route that i did.

I remember seeing a white 97 SS with orange stripes and fell in love with the look of the car. The camaro became my dream car and finally got to buy one 3 yrs ago.
Oh, one day I had two young girls telling me their RSX was gonna beat me. I laughed at them and walked away because it would be a waste of gas. They must have been watchin to many ricer movies.

I'll let you younger guys in on some good info. For the ones that have insurance in their own name it pays off in the long run. When I was 15-16 my parents (Dad) wouldn't let me drive on their policy. So I had to get it in my own name. I was paying out the rear end for full coverage on my first vehicle. Now that I have been with them for ten years without a claim or ticket My full coverage Ins is only $77 a month on my Z28. It also helps to have multi policy.

I'm 21 and on my 5th F-body. Fuck any import that isn't a Supra TT, RX7TT, 300ZXTT, or a Skyline.

Can't stand 'em. :barf:

Unbelievable, yes?
I had my car parked next to some riced-out green and yellow neon(?) and a bmw 3 series that had some air shocks and some rims on it. Both cars were well done and good looking in their way, but there was a group of people around and they didn't even glance at my car. Someone asked them which was probably the fastest, and they said the BMW. Oh well. Maybe someone will be really ignorant and race me for some money.
Let them have their imports. It's just more people for me to put them in their place.

First I saw of this thread. I think thats an untrue statement. My local Fbody club of 400 members has the most members in the age range of 18-28. I'm 24 and have pretty much wanted an Fbody ever since I had my license. Due to insurance and financial reasons I was not able to own one untill 22. I was never attracted to rice from the beginning.

I fell in love with the 93 Red LT1 that was on show at the car shows when they first released it back then. Wasn't all that old at all at that point. I had wanted one ever since.

-Todd

I'm on my second F-body and im 19... Only thought I ever gave to imports was it would be fun to have a legitimate fast one, but it wouldnt be worth the money to build it and scrapped the thought the same hour it came into my head.

I am saving up for a WRX as a daily driver though..that car is one of the few imports that is a good car.

-Todd

I'm 21. Only had 4 cars since I've started driving. 3 Camaros and 1 Mustang.

I am 17, my first car was a domestic economy crap car. A Saturn to be specific, I had to buy my car myself (only paid 1500 for it) and pay for insurance myself so I figured something "reliable" and "safe" would be a good decision. I drove this car for less than a year. I sold it for $2250 to some unfortuntate bastard (sorry dude) so his daughter could drive it (sorry girl), the car was a total crap bag. Anyway, then I bought a Jeep. The Jeep was slow as hell, but it was totally custom, 8 inches of lift running on 35s with all kinds of other crap...it was great, but...the 8mpgs were not cutting it for me. I sold the Jeep in October and bought my Z. The insurance on the Z is 33 bucks LESS a month than it was for the Jeep, I guess due to the high rollover rate of Jeeps or something. Anyway, I don't understand why people would want a small car with no balls. No matter how fast those little imports go, they just have nothing to them. There are a few nice looking imports that come factory with plenty of power, but the power they have is only proportional to how tiny the actual car is.

F-bodies rule. Hopefully, I will be buying another LT1 car soon so I can have my current one as a toy to tinker with. :D

Im 16, and I drive a piece of junk 1980 volare(basically an ugly duster). I can't even afford to pay the insurence on an ls1 maro/t/a much less buy one. I worked for 6 months to pay for my car, and get it on the road... its depressing seeing 16 year olds with no job driveing 02 ws6's and SS's. :chug:




Basically I dont drive a camaro because I want a 98-02 ss, and cant afford it. sooner or later ill get one though. :drive:

I'm almost 21. I've had 5 cars (yes I work and payed for most of them). I wanted my first car to be a camaro, but I ended up getting a Celica. I sold that piece after 6 months and bought a 98 Mustang GT. Sold that, bought a Cobra (man it was fast in highschool! 12.90's were quick!) Mom made me sell that (couldnt drive it everyday, really) and I bought another 98GT, that thing sucked so I finally bought a 2002 Z28!!!!! So, sometimes it takes a while to get what you want, or to even figure out what you want. I knew I wanted a camaro since I was very young, but see how long it took to get it? :bang:

Im 16, and I drive a piece of junk 1980 volare(basically an ugly duster). I can't even afford to pay the insurence on an ls1 maro/t/a much less buy one. I worked for 6 months to pay for my car, and get it on the road... its depressing seeing 16 year olds with no job driveing 02 ws6's and SS's. :chug:




Basically I dont drive a camaro because I want a 98-02 ss, and cant afford it. sooner or later ill get one though. :drive:

I know how you feel. I work my ass off (60 hours a week) to buy stuff. If you want to do the minimum, you won't get anywhere and you'll still be dreaming unless you've got someone funding you. If you want something bad enough, you'll figure a way to get it. I wanted a LS1 so bad and I wasn't going to compromise. I worked, and still work my ass off to keep things going. If it's what you want, then you'll do it. Good luck.

I dont get it either. People just dont know anything about the Fbody. I love mine. I got mine when I was 19 and Im 21 now. I will drive this car into the ground. When (IF) they come out with the 5th Gen. Camaro I'll buy one of those (unless its an abortion). One day my dream car will be in the garage next to my Fbody---1969 Yenko Camaro

I know how you feel. I work my ass off (60 hours a week) to buy stuff. If you want to do the minimum, you won't get anywhere and you'll still be dreaming unless you've got someone funding you. If you want something bad enough, you'll figure a way to get it. I wanted a LS1 so bad and I wasn't going to compromise. I worked, and still work my ass off to keep things going. If it's what you want, then you'll do it. Good luck.

Thanks for the words man.

Right now im working 50 hours a week, and going to high school(minimum wage sucks :guns: ). I think in about 6 months Ill have the cash for a 98 or 9 ss. I just dont know if I will be able to afford insurence. Im paying 90 a month for a 25 year old car with 90 hp(3500 lbs) lol(sadly im not jokeing). Im just hopeing this ol mopar will last a few more months... 240k on the clock and still going strong :eek2: .

I fell in love with the 4th Gen WS6 before when they first came out, I was 14 or 15. I always strolled through the dealers and gawked at them, and couldnt imagine how I could ever afford a $30k car!

So, I got a 87 Grand Am, major POS. worse than the "Pimp My Ride" cars, honest. had the door fly open on me while goin around a rotary ;)

Then I bought a CRX because I thought it looked really cool and wanted a nice stereo, I actually didnt try to make it fast. I blew the motor in less than a month anyways.

So the next car I bought was a 89 Integra, bought it off my sisters boyfriend for cheap, blew the tranny twice and finally traded it in on a 95 200sx se-r.

I really really like the Nissan, you can make them fast, for cheap believe it or not, and no one knew what the hell it was that just smoked their ass :) Regardless, I blew the tranny once and the motor once. I beat the shit out of that car so I cant complain.

I also had an 84 Toyota Pickup, cool little truck. I guess lol.

Then one day I test drove an 01 T/A WS6, just because I though I would be soo cool saying I got to test drive it. I woke up the next morning and it somehow ended up in my driveway! (I paid for it, 400/ month. 4700/ year insurance) After 6 years I finally figured out how to get that $30k car I fell in love with soo long ago.

yep there was no way i would buy a rice burner. I got my camaro back when i was 16 and i promised my self i would work my ass off to get a corvette by the age 21. And on my 20th birthday I went and bought me a 00 Vette. Now i just have to figure out what car im going to trade in on a C6 zo6 when they come out.

I am 20 now ..... My first car at 15 was an 83 Trans Am I loved that car and still do i should sell it but i cant part with it Now i have a 00 WS6 and wouldn't trade it for anything. This has been my dream car and will always. I love F-bodys and feel kids that choose imports are fools. They do have a pt tho w/ the insurance.

bought a 96 z28 when I was 16 paid for insurance and downpayment and monthly payments I was fixing computers at the time making decent money..then I bought a 98 trans am because the camaro had title fraud and the dealership had to take it back and replace it...then all of a sudden my insurance sky rocketed going from the lt1 car to the ls1 car up to 400/month from 200 and my car payment was more so I sold it. Then I got a 97 formula which I have now that was a rebuilt title for 7500.00 and I wouldnt trade this opti eating beast for anything.. Its what keeps me sane and it makes me proud to see all of the mods that I've paid for and I've installed and beating the crap out of all the imports around here... I have friends with rx7s that have put literally 13k of their parents money just into motor mods yet I spank them in my less than 14k invested(including buying the car) american made muscle car and Im 20 now by the way and some how only paying 400/year for insurance trust me everyone it really helps when you dont get tickets or accidents

And the other day I drove my friends civic with the basic modifications, and when I stepped on the gas, I suddenly felt like I had no balls.


:funny: that is the funniest thing i have ever read!!!!

First of all, I dunno..I must have all the luck in the world...

I seem to only meet people who like all kinds of performance cars. Ive been to a few cruises/events where the majority of the crowd is import and they always give my car a ton of respect and they are more than fully aware of what my car can do.

And I dunno, maybe its the way my car is fixed up, but whenever I roll past someone, whehter they are in an import, whether they are 16, or whether they are a chick...I get plenty of stares and plenty of compliments...and go through this alot...

I went to school at UCLA, live near UCI and live in Little Saigon...all 3 spots NOTORIOUS for being an import heavy crowd. So I am a chevy lost amoung imports, but I still get respect, I still get compliments, and I still run into people who know what my car can do.

So with that said, it MUST be the cost of the car, the cost of mods (i just started looking at mod prices for hondas...its WAAAAY cheaper to mod a Honda than it is to mod an Fbody...for example, you can swap in a H22A engine that puts out 200-200HP into a tiny Civic Si and run some respectable time for about 2K...we are lucky if we can get a good set of heads for that!) is what makes those imports more attractive to young kids.

In fact, I doubt most importers like anything on thier cars other than the way they look. I signed up on a Honda site yesterday (my Z28 is down, and I actually decided its time to give it a lil rest and have been using my old beater Honda since, and decided to do a few mods to it to make it more fun for me to drive when Im not using my Z28), and posted some of the mods I was thinking of doing to my car...also mentioned I had a Z28 and posted apic of that...

Damn near everyone on that Honda board told me to either: Forget modding the honda, and pour your money into the camaro. Or they told me to flat out SELL the Accord and keep modding the Camaro. And this is coming from people who are actually Honda fans...The few that told me what basic mods I should do on the accord also pointed out how awesome the Camaro looked.

So to sum this up...people who know cars, whether they are import fans or domestic fans, know whats the deal with FBodies vrs Imports....no one who knows cars is fooled. Those Honda guys who dream of crackin into 14's on a 1/4, fully know we can do 13s stock. They know about and appreciate FBodies, belive me.

About the only people who are dumb enough to think stock or mildly modified Hondas can beat FBodies are the "wanna-be" ricers. The ones whove never street raced before and only know about racing through F&F, the ones who only race other wanna be ricers.

Believe me guys...the REAL Import guys KNOW and APPRECIATE our cars...they just found import scene to be a lil more financially friendly, thats all.

First of all, I dunno..I must have all the luck in the world...

I seem to only meet people who like all kinds of performance cars. Ive been to a few cruises/events where the majority of the crowd is import and they always give my car a ton of respect and they are more than fully aware of what my car can do.

And I dunno, maybe its the way my car is fixed up, but whenever I roll past someone, whehter they are in an import, whether they are 16, or whether they are a chick...I get plenty of stares and plenty of compliments...and go through this alot...

I went to school at UCLA, live near UCI and live in Little Saigon...all 3 spots NOTORIOUS for being an import heavy crowd. So I am a chevy lost amoung imports, but I still get respect, I still get compliments, and I still run into people who know what my car can do.

So with that said, it MUST be the cost of the car, the cost of mods (i just started looking at mod prices for hondas...its WAAAAY cheaper to mod a Honda than it is to mod an Fbody...for example, you can swap in a H22A engine that puts out 200-200HP into a tiny Civic Si and run some respectable time for about 2K...we are lucky if we can get a good set of heads for that!) is what makes those imports more attractive to young kids.

In fact, I doubt most importers like anything on thier cars other than the way they look. I signed up on a Honda site yesterday (my Z28 is down, and I actually decided its time to give it a lil rest and have been using my old beater Honda since, and decided to do a few mods to it to make it more fun for me to drive when Im not using my Z28), and posted some of the mods I was thinking of doing to my car...also mentioned I had a Z28 and posted apic of that...

Damn near everyone on that Honda board told me to either: Forget modding the honda, and pour your money into the camaro. Or they told me to flat out SELL the Accord and keep modding the Camaro. And this is coming from people who are actually Honda fans...The few that told me what basic mods I should do on the accord also pointed out how awesome the Camaro looked.

So to sum this up...people who know cars, whether they are import fans or domestic fans, know whats the deal with FBodies vrs Imports....no one who knows cars is fooled. Those Honda guys who dream of crackin into 14's on a 1/4, fully know we can do 13s stock. They know about and appreciate FBodies, belive me.

About the only people who are dumb enough to think stock or mildly modified Hondas can beat FBodies are the "wanna-be" ricers. The ones whove never street raced before and only know about racing through F&F, the ones who only race other wanna be ricers.

Believe me guys...the REAL Import guys KNOW and APPRECIATE our cars...they just found import scene to be a lil more financially friendly, thats all.

I can agree with a lot of your posts. For a while, I was thinking of spending a bunch of money on my car. My car was dirt cheap($1250), and I was planning on doing a VR6 swap, which would cost no more than 1500, if I found a junked VR6 car, with a good engine. That would have put me from like mid-high 17's stock, to mid-high 14's... The thing is... you can only go so fast without spending lots of money before you can't go any faster anymore without spending a lot of money. If 14's are fast to you, then a FWD import is probably going to be a cheap option. However, if you want to go 10's or 11's... forget it. FWD is such garbage, and not worth it. Its the ricers wanna-be's that think a 14 second car is the fastest thing on the road, and the true car enthusiasts that realize what it takes to go fast.

I guess everybody here says it's just not affordable unless your parents pay for it. I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky, but I go to school full time and only make a little over 20K a year. I'm 21 now, but under same conditions, when I was 18 I financed a 02zx6r motorcycle and paid it off in a year and a half. Bought the 00ws6 when I was 19. My payments are 515 a month, but it's doable. You just have to know how to budget. I guess I do have an advantage on insurance though. I pay 135 for liability for a year on my motorcycle, and I'm insured on my car through a family plan with two other vehicles and two other drivers, and trust me, I have a lot of tickets, and yet total payment is only 350 a month. So I pay 150 and my parents pay the rest for their cars. Now, here's my confession to make. I had test drove the trans am I bought about 3 months before I actually bought it. I loved it, but the price was too high, like 27,000 from a dealership and payments were like 580 a month. Well after three months, I decided to buy a 300zx tt from a different dealership. At least it's a respectable import and for 10,000 I though it was a heck of a deal. But the salesman was an asshole and didnt' even want to let me test drive it, much less take it home until all the loans were approved. Same day, went to the other dealership and saw that the ws6 was still there for sale. Talked to the same guy, lowered the price to 24,000 with 515 a month payments (I still kind of got raped on that deal, but it was back in 2002 so I guess it's ok) I ended up driving it off the lot that night. Next day they called me to go pick up the 300zx and sign the papers and I told him off and that I had drove home a ta yesterday. So glad things worked out for me that way because I couldn't be happier with the trans am.

I never was into the whole import deal, they sound annoying, I dont like asians too much...lots of reasons, i dont want to sound all angry and everyhting. My first ride was an 87 Sierra Classic with a 327. Half way through the frame up, i had to sell it since i didnt realize at the time how much money cars suck up when you do shit to them. Replacing the GMC was the S10 i have now, which also makes my ass broke, and even more so with the loan I will be needing to take out to carry out my LQ4 project... Proud to love domestic, and thats the way i will stay.

Insurance :shocked: money.

Also - towards the end of the Camaro years, they became exceedingly expensive. A few years ago a Camaro would run you upper $20k minimum for a base model, which wasn't terribly fast with a v6. So to get a car that was alot faster than the typical Honda civic, crx, or whatever 4 door family rice rocket out there, you needed to shell out $30k.

On the other hand if you DID want to get a camaro for the same money as a Honda rice rocket, the camaro would not be as new and therefore not as nice of a ride inside.

Insurance asside, I guess it is more of a comfort vs. performance issue. But if Chevy brings back the camaro, they better NOT call it a camaro or else the insurance will be right back up in the unaffordable category.

I had a 99 trans am, 02 ZO6, and now i won a cammed 00 WS6. I'll be turning 21 this summer!

My first car, when I turned 16, was a rice burner :( . It was a 1990 Nissan 240SX, it was pretty quick for a 4 cylinder but back then, I thought it was fast, heh. Now, at 18, I got my 99 Formula Ls1, and let me tell you, the 240SX was NOTHING compared to the firebird V8. Ill never go back to import again :) . But, yeah, I was once into that import craze, but I am a survivor and my eyes have opened up to the truth!!

Im 21 and on my 3rd Fbody. Had a 92 25th Anniversary L98 TPI Z28, 1994 Firehawk #170, and now my 2002 Z28.

As far as having a "rice burner" or whatever doesnt really bother me. I cant really criticize someone for having different taste in cars than me. Do i like "laying frame" in a 1989 S10 with so much negative camber on the rims in might as well be riding on the wheel weights? Hell no but people build and enjoy what the like. I think some kids buy Honda and etc because they are cheap to build up. By build up i mean wheels, exhaust, intake and what not. now i know they cost alot to go fast but most kids just want something to customize. Either way ill point out on well built "car" anytime. For instance...kid in my apartment has a 1996 or so Honda Accord. Lowered nicely, with some 18" wheels. Very nice two-tone paint and exhaust. very well kept car.you can tell the owner takes pride in what he built.

I had a 97 mustang gt by 16 and a 00 camaro ss by 17 it didnt take long for me to smarten up. :judge:

I personally think it's a good thing that the younger people don't drive f-bodies... Who wants to be driving the same car as all the 16 year old kids? I am young (21) but I'm talking about the high school kids who tear their cars up and go around looking stupid with their radios turned all the way up, because they need attention. And if you're 16, don't get all defensive on me...I'm talking about the majority

for as long as i can remember i have wanted a ls1 ws6 m6 i would take that car over any other car unless it was something i could sell right away and then i would go buy the ta. Well anyway i saved up money for ever and looked for a long time for a ta well when looking i started looking at lt1s also because of the price and came across a 97 formula m6 with no options at all which makes it nice and light and for 6k i couldnt pass it up so i bought it. I payed for the car with a loan from uncle which is now payed off, insurance, gas, and everything else i do to the car. I bought it when i was 16 and now am 18 have put over 3k into the car by working my ass off but its been so worth it. Ill get my ws6 ls1 m6 soon enough but right now am saving for a dd i want a 1500 hemi 4x4 but they are expensive and so is college since im paying for that too but i dont plan on getting rid of this lt1 ever.

As for kids in highschool and having the mindset about imports im just not sure about them theres a guy who got a brand new rsx from his parents costing over 20k and then spends money on getting a type R wing painted and put on, and then shifter, pedels, and neons. At least he doesnt think his car was fast but he did think it was the shit, i just dont understand why they spend their money on crap like that. But it wasnt that bad though there were a few kids with domestics and the ones with imports knew that they would get owned by us.

I think one of the main reasons is the insurance, but I did not care. My first car was a 99 SS then a 00 SS and not a 02 35th SS LE with heads and cam going in

I am 20 with a 02 WS6 that I've paid off myself, my buddy Eric01SS is 19 with an SS (obviously) my other friend has a 99 TA..we're out there just not many of us


oh yeah and if I wasnt able to figure out a way to remain on my parents insurance then I would be paying 556 a month for what I pay 225 now

being on your parents insurance also means that if you happen to have a major accident and hurt someone real bad and they sue you....they get to take what your parents have worked for......i have been on my own insurance plan since 18...it only seems fair to do it that way.....i thought it was time to grow up and take responsibility.

Has anybody out there pondered why 80% of kids want there first car to be a import. There dream car is honda civic SI with a fart can and chrome intake and nasty looking body kits. Or even if they have enough money they look right pass F-bodies to look at EVOs,STi,RX7,300Z,Supra's. WHY???
or if they get a domestic its the much slower mustang GT or the V6 STANG(the v6 sales more than the 3800 series &ls1 f-bodies). Talking to some 17 year old at a recent street race gathering he pointed out some interesting points about a 2000 black ws6 ta(nobody was looking at it). He was like look at the car,"long ass over hangs the interior can be mistaken for a mini van, the old 1980's headlights has been out of style for while man,the car is just plain american
crap". I asked if he thought the car was fast and his response was probally a high 14 low 15 second car :eek2:.
What this guy thought is more than likely what most kids his age think. They would rather spend $2,000 on a car then spend $10,000 in upgrades and yet more than likely still not be faster than an Ls1 with basic mods. They also say the car is to expensive for which i agree. It seems GM does not make F-bodies for late teens early 20's anymore. I would say its more for somebody in the late 20's early 30's who at least makes $45,000 a year. Most people that age that wants a sports car would get a Vette or the 350Z for which are both way better cars. The ones that do buy F-bodies usually has owned one before or is trying to live out there childhood dreams of buying a musclecar for which they could not afford back in the day. Even old guys with first and second gens dont like the 4th gens saying that its plastic and they are not real muscle(another thing I love muscle cars but you take any 60's STOCK muscle car and run it against a STOCK Ws6 the Ws6 will out run it all day long and still drive you to work tommorow)car. The 3rd gens just flat out dont get respect from anyone so i can almost understand why kids dont like those. Ive had my 98 ta for two years ive had it 160mph 3 times it run consistent low 13
and it stays at WOT every time i get the chance to hear the loudmouth. The car has 90,000 mile on it now and still run like the day i purchased it. I also have 1985 i spent $15,000 to $20,000 bringing back to life(zz4 tpi)runs mid to low 13's but is nowhere close to reliable. The ls1 puts down the same amount of power has Ac,gets better gas miles and has NEVER broken down. At 22 i dont meet alot of people my age driving ta's. After my 18 yr old friend just purchased a 2000 civic Si for $15,000 instead of buying an lt1 i just needed to say something.

I personally put the blame on MTV ... ;)

being on your parents insurance also means that if you happen to have a major accident and hurt someone real bad and they sue you....they get to take what your parents have worked for......i have been on my own insurance plan since 18...it only seems fair to do it that way.....i thought it was time to grow up and take responsibility.

well it's not like that in TX so study up before you critisize brah :engarde:

Im 18 and drive a GTO. blkZ28spt is right, people on campus (Purdue) don't understand what is going on.

I'm 22 and the only kind of car I want is an f-body. I'll get rid of my LT1 Z28 before too long and I'll get a LS1 WS6 in the near future.

Man, I feel bad for some of you paying more than 200 a month for insurance.... that sucks... I'm 23 and I only pay 42 bucks a month for full coverage for my TA...

Sadly if I had to pay that much for insurance, I'd probably just keep saving my money away untill I could buy the car outright it would be too expensive otherwise.

Well i must admit before i looked at an F-Body i was looking at 1993-UP Toyota Supra Twin Turbo & 1990-UP Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo. But my friends brother was always telling me to look at the Trans Am and the Camaros. And now i own a 2000 Trans Am WS6. And i would not look back this car is absolutely amazing. But i guess the reason alot of people search for cars other than fbodys is because many imports like supras or 300ZX's mods are pretty cheap for them and not that many mods bring power up quickly. Such as with intake, exhaust, & Jim Wolfe chip on a 300ZX they say you can get close to 400HP and if you were to buy a BPU kit for a twin turbo supra you can have close to 450HP. so its basically the whole idea of how fast you can make a car a car go faster and with how much money you need.

I work at a Honda dealership as a Tech, and A lot of younger guys come in and ask me what They could do to go faster. I have told them many times to buy a better car. They almost always replied that they can not afford the insurance, And if they could they would buy a Supra. Then I ask why in hell would you do that. One answer they always say is T.V. All the shows and movies about imports being fast. Then I get the big question what kind of car do you drive or race. I tell them a Z28 Camaro. Then the stupid remarks "Oh they only run 15's to low 14's"
I try not to get upset about it because they really have no ideal at all. I keep my video camrea at work and I show them a coulpe of run of my car at the track. And they are pretty impress, but it all comes down to that all there friends have imports and there parents drive imports T.V shows has imports so thats what they are going to buy no matter what you or anyone tell them. Thats ok let them buy there Honda's. I can make more money when they buy Honda's and the more money I make the faster my car goes.

Too funny, the simple irony of their force fed misinformation, feeds the faster machine... :D

I'll admit when I was 16 looking for a new car I thought a Honda Prelude was badass. A friend of mine showed me a Trans Am and I fell in love with it. I'm 18 and own a Formula. I have 3 words to explain this "Fast and Furious"

Man, I feel bad for some of you paying more than 200 a month for insurance.... that sucks... I'm 23 and I only pay 42 bucks a month for full coverage for my TA...
how the hell did you manage that?!

how the hell did you manage that?!

Married, multiple car, no tickets, renters discount.. it rules. Getting married is what gave me the best benefits, when I turn 25 it will be cut in half again ;)

first car - v6 mustang (my sisters car that i drove while she was in college)

second car

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/409000-409999/409421_7_full.jpg

and now i got my T/A

as i sit back and watch most of my friends go through the "ricer" phase, ive noticed that its all about the money i can count off 6 people who own honda CRXs, ive noticed that they all got their car very cheap, insurance is cheap, and parts are cheap(eBay)

one of my friends is trying to sell his CRX and by a 3rd gen F-body, perferablly a Camaro

the "ricer" cycle kinda goes like this:
buy cheap car
think its fast
race and lose
buy cheap parts on eBay
race again and lose
buy more cheap parts on eBay
ect.......
finally come to terms with the fact that your car is slow
go the local junk yard and buy all stock parts that you replaced
sell your "performance" parts on eBay
sell your car
finally understand what the word "depreciation" means
now stuck with no car and not enought money for a fast car
buy a car that is faster than your previous car
repeat.....

i love the f-bodies dont get me wrong but in this area(north texas) everyone and their dog has a vette/fbodie/gt stang while i only see an mkiv supra once every 3 or 4 weeks.

as i sit back and watch most of my friends go through the "ricer" phase, ive noticed that its all about the money i can count off 6 people who own honda CRXs, ive noticed that they all got their car very cheap, insurance is cheap, and parts are cheap(eBay)

one of my friends is trying to sell his CRX and by a 3rd gen F-body, perferablly a Camaro

the "ricer" cycle kinda goes like this:
buy cheap car
think its fast
race and lose
buy cheap parts on eBay
race again and lose
buy more cheap parts on eBay
ect.......
finally come to terms with the fact that your car is slow
go the local junk yard and buy all stock parts that you replaced
sell your "performance" parts on eBay
sell your car
finally understand what the word "depreciation" means
now stuck with no car and not enought money for a fast car
buy a car that is faster than your previous car
repeat.....

sounds like me...lol just not the whole ricer thing...

87 chrysler conquest(bigger turbo...)
96 mustang gt(vortech, 6spd, ...)
01 SS(many things to come :eek2: )

Before Hurricane Katrina, I had a 2005 Scion tC and a 1993 Ford Thunderbird (5.0 V8 A4) and a 1985 Toyota Celica Convertible that I had planned to rebuild the engine in. Now that they are all flooded, I bought the TA. I didn't used to like Firebirds/Camaros, mainly because, like many other youngsters, I didn't understand them. After I got the tC, I started AutoCrossing. One of the other regulars drives a 2000 Trans Am WS6. That's when I learned what's inside these things. When I had to find a new car, it had to be an LS1.

This is car #10 for me in the 5 years I've had a license. In reverse chrono order, my cars were:
2000 Pontiac Trans Am, Black, 6 Spd
2005 Scion tC, Silver, 5 Spd (Still have possession of for the next week)
1993 Acura Legend, Green, Auto
1992 Mitsubishi Diamante, Gray, Auto (had for 2 weeks, traded for the Acura)
1993 Ford Thunderbird, 5.0 V8, White, Auto (Still have)
1985 Toyota Celica Convertible, 5-Spd, Black (Still have)
1988 Honda Civic, Blue, 5-Spd, 4-Door (I swear I didn't pick it out. I wanted to fix my Cavalier, my boss bought me the Civic instead.)
1992 Mitsubishi Diamante, White, Auto
1991 Chevy Cavalier RS, Burgundy, 5-Spd, 2-Door
1993 Chevy Cavalier, Red, 5-Spd, 2-Door

I was 17 when I got my Z28

Im 20 and I want a F-body. As soon as I get the money I will. But I want a Honda too just to be a good reliable DD.

The only cars I've owned were:

88' Cougar, 97' Z24, 97 Sonoma SLS, 96 ES-300, and now the 01' Trans Am.


I just always wanted one.. 2nd gen and 3rd gen were the first cars I looked at since I was able to drive. And have always been a huge f-body fan.. Most my friends have f-bodies in Illinois, figured it was time to join the club. But I never thought I could afford one.

Insurance is the worst part... It was mad expensive when I first started driving, and its still pretty bad now.. 216 a month for me at the moment and i'm 23. Then again I had two accidents (1 major/1 minor) the major is just outside of 5 years ago and the minor one, I think it was affected me.. Not sure..

25 will be perfect time to upgrade to a WS6 M6 I'm thinking.


Bottom line is that for the money and for a pure performance automobile for the money, f-body is the way to go... There's a lot of other options I'd be willing to test drive.. but if you're an f-body fan, you just respect it already..

Most import lovers, etc. know what these cars can do.. And hey, a civic is PERFECT for gas mileage and long term reliability, but it's just not in the same calibre as f-bodies without major modding.

Otherwise you've got your WRX and your EVO fans to ride your dick. The way I look at it, I don't remember the last time I took a turn at 60, but HEY my car handles GREAT.

Obviously we all bought our cars for "different" reasons >8)

i honestly think over protective parents and insurance. im 20 now, had a 95 TA vert when i was 16. my dad is an fbod guru so ive been into em for a long time. they dont get a lot of publicity (compared to its american counterpart-stang...which really isnt close at all but thats another arguement). parents use the excuse of gas to steer their kid away...though, my LS1 does better than my moms GTP. its sad yes, but im in southern IL where the v8 never dies, any kid with a "ricer" gets made fun of here. ahh where i live, the land of diesel and v8's. but back to the main reason for the post. its parents, changing times, insurance company ass raping you with 5 inch casing...and the fact that these cars are more expensive than a civic. and a lot of kids (some do) dont look past the initial cost of civic and dont think about how much money youd have to sink into the civic to make it run with an fbod. its just youth an inexperience...along witht he ass raping from our insurance friends...by the way 40 year olds and older...you made it that way for us, thanks a lot...im just kidding, they'd find a way to fuck us other wise.

:drive: got my ss when i was 15

I agree with all the factors that has been said here. Also if you think about, be glad that most kids around my age (18) got an import instead. They would race an lt1 or ls1 and end up totaling it. Have you realized how often they wreck their rice burners? Our f-bodies would be disapearing like crazy because of their inexperience and stupidity. But of course their are the responsible ones, like me and others at my age on this board. Right now I'm kinda stuck with my 94 v6 camaro that I'v had for the past 7 months, and I'm trying to see about having my brother's 95 z28. He wants to sell it but I'm gonna talk him into holding on to it. It has a blown motor.

My situation was a llittle different than most of you guys. I was never really a car guy and didn't give a $hit about what i drove. It was by weird circumstances that I got my 1st f body. When I turned 17, my parents gave me an explorer to drive around. about a year later, they turned it in back to the dealership to get an expedition (the explorer was on a lease). Anyway, college came around and i was driving over 60 miles every day to go to class and come back home.

at this time, my parents and I all switch cars. My mom got the expedition, my dad got a minivan and i got a camry. had the camry for about two years or so. than a bunch of my buddies got into cars and their interest rubbed off on me. it was soon after that i was looking to by either a celica or an eclipse (the 2000 model). I know haha. but at this time, i didn't know better. All i knew was imports. integras, civic, eclipses etc. the only domestic i was actually even remotely thinking of buying was a v6 mustang. at the time, i though that v8s were way too fast and that i couldn't handle them. so v6 or less was the way to go.

also , me and my close freinds were asian, so it was automatically given that i had to get an import.

i never even considered the camaro for one reason. I hate the lt1 front end. but by accident, i clicked on a link that had a 98 v6 camaro for sale. when i saw it, i knew i had to have it. about a month later, it was mine, 98 onyx black v6 camaro. many of my friends ask why i got a camaro. i said that i liked it and i didn't want a "me too car." they kind of blew me off little. had that car for a about another year or so than came the Ls1.

when i had the v6 camaro, i always wanted to make it just a little faster than another v6 camaro. oh btw, i never encountered a v8, so i never knew they were that fast. well at least to the v6.

well, i was in store for a rude awakening. i was in western pa with my ex girlfriend just driving on the backroads, when a blue lt1 came roaring by. he past me like i was going in reverse. when i press the gas in the car, it felt like i was going backwards and he was out. never saw him again. well that put me in my place real fast. i was throughly embarassed.

so i wanted to do a swap and was doing some research. than 9-11 came and soon after all those incentives were being offered. i found an ad in the paper that had a 2001 camaro for sale. it was brand new, and it said it was a v8. so i gave it a chance and took a look at it. what the ad didn't say was that it was a SOM SS. I instanly feel in love with the car. put a deposit on it and the rest is history.

being different lead me to the camaro and i never regret choosing the car. it;s funny cause all the import guys i 1st meet who gave me crap for buying a domestic will not race me. they ask how much hp i got and when i tell them, they are pretty much in awe. also when they see the turbo, they sit ask questions. many of them didn't know people actually turbo the Ls1s. all my close friends who have imports regard my car as a beast, even when it was stock. now they get all giddy when they get in the car. I'm the car that they want to beat.

oh btw, many people don't know that you can buy a used ls1 for pretty cheap. people buy 15,000 used rsx type s, but for that much you can buy a used ls1. hell, you can even buy some mods for it.

i think the ls1 has more "bang for the buck" than most cars. also we have such a great aftermarket. well maybe not as much as civics, but seriously, how many different intakes do you need.

i am 17 and proud owner a 2000 ws6. and your right everyone thinks these cars are low15 high 14 sec cars. ex. some might recall that friend of mine that has a 300zx well any way he had a bonfire and everyone brought there rice mobiles over and i trying to tell this kid with a wrx that my car would walk all over him and beat the 300zx. he said "how does a high 14 sce car beat a 2 low 13 sec cars. i told him he had it backwards but hes a dumbass and dosent understand what a ls1 is. i bought the trans am because i love the way it looks. and i could of had a TT supra,300zx,RX7 or w/e but there all over rated. the f-bodys are way under rated, thats what makes us sneaky to unsupecting imports. :devil:

hell ya, but I've got a girl friend that her little brother is into that import shit but every time I go by her house and he's there with his friends he wants me to take another person for a ride to show them how fast it is

a better question is, do you really want F-body's to be any more popular then they are now? I don't want to see tens of camaros and trans am driving around my town. I like the fact that they are kind of rare. In my opinion, it's not cool when everyone drives the same type of car. Takes the bang out of owning a nice car. So I say, encourge those ricey bastards and tell them their cars are fast! There are enough f-body owners IMO, there doesn't need to be much more.

Well I'm 18 and here's the cars I've owned. 94 Dodge Stealth TT (stock), 03 WRX (295whp), 90 Nissan 240SX (378whp), now I'm in the middle of swapping an LS1 into my 240. I would have gotten a V8 Domestic, but 1- there are soooo many around here it's just too common of a car, 2- my parents wouldn't want me to have a V8, "its too fast".... they have given up on that now. and 3- insurance. But at the same time, I've always had more respect towards domestics. So many ricers i talk to also make fun of the LS1 b/c its "old technology and imports are the new thing". It's b/c of stuff like the fast and furious..... its part of pop culture.

I had a 1983 Z-28, 1991 RS and now I am driving a 1994 Z28. 17 going on 18 next month.

Im 24 years old and was raised with my dad drilling "Buy american" in my head. I love my WS6 and would trade it for anything. It can get expensive, car payment $530 Insurance $228 a month. Not many 16 year old kids are going to be able to afford that unless daddy pays for it

This might offend some people, but going back 20-30 years ago, alot of the european immigrants coming into the USA and CAnada (from Italy, Portugal, Greece, etc) these people were also big supporters of the American auto companies products. But the recent surge of immigrants over the last decade or so do not share the same mindset as the early europeans coming to our countries. When I was younger, my father always talked of and bought GM cars, and so did all of my uncles. My pop was always one of those old european guys who liked driving his big cadillac. Why? I don't really know, but these days, you don't see the same thing.

I think GM certainly missed the boat on some of their marketing and made some critical errors over the last 20 years or so which contributed to their declining sales and the Japanese companies winning business.

I'm 18 years old. My parents are immigrants. Being the first generation born here I have to say that I love American muscle cars. I think that especially the classics are mechanical marvels, and it would have been awesome to live in the 60s during the muscle car era.

I'll admit, some of the modern comforts of the imports, all the little gadgets and bells and whistles can be kinda handy, but they just scream immaturity, the Japanese imports that is. The Euro imports all look the same to me, uninspired in design and not worth the hefty price tag.

When I was younger I would be at my grandma's house a lot, and one of her neighbors had this uber-loud 60s Mustang, painted black, it just looked badass. And it would actually scare me when I heard it, and I'd run away. Nowadays the sound of a roarin V8 is like music.

I had to wait 5 years to afford my f-body.

When I started shopping for a new car I intially looked at civics/integras ( I actually like the look and sportiness of the integra). When I started getting quotes for insurance it was like 2800 per year for an integra GSR, not even top of the line. I was like this is stupid, it will cost me more for insurance than my truck. So, I asked how much a camaro/firebird with an LS1 v-8 would cost, oh, only 1800 per year. That sealed it, I looked at my parents and said I am not gonna get anything less than an LS1. Nothing they could really say agaisnt it.

Josh

I bought my 2k z28 when I was 20.

we buy hondas out here because you can get them in the 13s very easily. also insurance is a lot cheaper with imports *in general*

My first car: 1999 Camaro Z/28. I think I got it right :) .

I knew I wanted my first car to be American Muscle so I went and test drove all the modern V8 powered vehicles I could. Camaros, Mustangs, and Trans Ams. (At one time I thought about a Vette but they are a lot more expensive to get into than an F-Body). It is sad that those are really the only (relatively) cheap muscle cars left today.

I was unimpressed with the Mustang so went on to drive a Camaro and holy shit it was awesome :eek2: . My Dad was in the car too and I don't think he has even been in a car that fast before. I soon realized that Camaros meant business.

Eventually after months and months of searching I found a girl in her mid-20s that was getting married who <B>had</B> to sell her '99 Z28. Her loss was my gain. I got the car for only $11,000 and it was completely stock and had only 47k miles on it. It was everything I wanted since I started saving up money at age 12 for a muscle car.

My Dad sure enjoyed it when I didn't know how to drive stick and he got to drive the car around everywhere :) . Now we work on the car together and go to many car shows together and have gotten a lot closer ever since I got my car. Our next project hopefully in the next month or so will be installing some longtube headers on my car.

This car has taught me a lot of responsibility. I have to pay for gas ( :bang: ), insurance, maintenance, and everything else for it. It's sad that most "kids" my age (17) probably have no idea how awesome a Camaro really is, but I don't care beacuse most of them are idiots anyway.

My first car was a 1987 Caprice Classic with the 350 :)
Got stolen after two weeks, had a 1992 Ford Aerostar after that for quite some time :(
After the Aerostar, I got my 1998 Buick Regal GS
Being 18, it isn't that bad of a ride, pretty quick being supercharged, but the styling isn't what I'm looking for, and the trannys are glass.
An LS1 Camaro seems impossible for me, the insurance is unbelievable and the winters here in Detroit are rough.
I'm thinking about buying a tired LS1 Camaro and building her up during the winter in my garage. Any leads on such a car? :confused:

I've got a small group of friends here that are Hardcore domestic, but it's always us vs. the world, it just seems like there is no support for the Chevys, kind of feel like a loner on this one. My license plate is YBUY4EN and I get shit from people all the time. :engarde:

Maybe it's just that young people don't think they can afford these cars... When I had my first camaro, '95 v-6, I paid $2k for it but people would be like "Wow, nice car, you must have paid a lot for it, huh?" And since I've had the z, I've had so many young people tell me they wish they could afford a car like mine. They think these cars are so expensive and they're really not.

I started with a 1990 Camaro RS V6, that my parents bought for me. It is the very thing that got me in to cars. When I turned 20 I saved up enough money to buy the Firehawk. Now 21 (going on 22 in October) and living on my own and paying car insurance. The one disgusting thing is how much insurance is... But I like a few of you have mentioned, was raised with American muscle in mind...

I think they should jack up insurance on Honda's and the fools with slow cars who INSIST on going down the highway at like 90+ MPH with SLOW CARS..... I can really care about the top speed, it's how long it takes to get there..... ::sigh::

Wow, After reading all those posts. I'm 18 got a T/A when I was 16 on my birthday. That car is crazy. I love it. My mother had been drivin with me since I was 14. She knew I could handle a car with power. When I was 14 she bought a 93 mustang 4cyl. I loved that car too all 88 horses but was very predictable in corners. Since I couldn't drive on state roads I became a master at dirt roads I would drive 5-10 miles on a dirt road sliding though every corner. NOT ROADS TRAVELED ALOT mostly roads that used to go somewhere and have now been blocked for some reason. I got my Trans Am and it was like everyone was in awl. I live in the country so lots of people still like trans ams. I only remember a few import races. One I "lost" after rain I just set there as the guy ran off then I turned But, that wasn't real a race I don't guess I popped the clutch and spun for fun. Let him think so if he wants to throw money down. I also "lost to a mustang v6" I left him for like a mile turned off the road he passed the road after I had turned and told everyone he beat me. I don't like import or well anyone that does stuff like that. I admit if I lose. Fair and square. I also don't like ricers in grandmothers car trying to race I got a ticket because a Mazda 626 want to race I didn't had had my license back for about 25 hours and kid revs up I look and look back at the road and slow down. A kid in his back sit throws his arbys out the window the bag first then a wrapper the cup started out the window and I peaced out. A officer pulled me over and asked why and I told him a kid is throwing stuff at my car I was doing 45 on the highway. The cop walks to the front looks and walks back gave me the ticket. Tells me nothings on my car I was thinking Duhh I got pass him before the cup got out.
Well that the main dislike is things like that on the road acting like it’s a racetrack and their well a racecar LOL. The other thing is a kid at my school when I was a junior I think stood up in the lunchroom yelled out 350z and I beat you to pointing at me "when I get 15 grand under my hood." Well you should my stock t/a on your riced car. He said this a few times before he got his car. He got it I saw him in town one nite pulled out a 100 bucks and flashed it asked him to race. He said you cars supped up wait till I get mine supped up. I look and said I have a chip 5 hp he just looked away and was like no. That got me mad in high school. I never nagged on a race. If you lost good try. It’s no big deal. But since its 6 am I'm really not answering the topic. But here it is even the kids that like the cars don't have the money. The rest watch "the fast and the furious" and 2f2f. And think its great it’s flashy. Too many f-body guys are afraid to look "RICE" well hey I wanted a body kit and a wing on my trans am. A wing west kit and a saleen or mach III jsp wing with the stock rear wing removed. When I got my car painted the guy told me it would look "rice". I think it would look kind of like one of the Road Racing cars like ummm... some of the proclass scca cars. But hey I think it looks "clean" stock. The thing was my dad got me that body kit so I really want to put it on my dad tries really hard to get me things I like and anything to make my dad happy he is been in a wheelchair for 18 years he is not really feelin great about it. He went from running 10 miles a day to a wheelchair won state track events in high school and drove race cars pro in college loved all the things he can't do now. Since he doesn't like the idea of me going fast BODY KIT popped up. But the kit doesn't look that good with the stock wing. :offtopic: again, But ok a friend of mine that likes to pick at me tried the import fast thing that lasted about 5 minutes then he started the looks and plain and simple that’s true. Import guys make crazy looking cars girls love bling. Even if it’s ugly. I mean a go cart rsx with 19"s is Hot Sh*t to most girls. I want to get a Acura Integra just to race some of these guys that start the I'm a better driver crap. Ohh and 40 mpg doesn't sound to bad for a college car that will cost 5500 with the turbo to replace to my $35000 trans am with 383 nitrous etc... But looks are everything. And hey I know girls like trans am's but more girls like imports. And everyone can use more girls(SMACK ME I JUST SAID THAT.) ok now that its 6:30 and I wrote a book GoodNight.

You should have stopped reading a long time ago. Point was looks are everything even ugly looks.

Im 17 and i got a 92 RS. Its not real powerful with its 305/5.0l but its still a nice car. But i gotta agree...most kids i know would rather spend their money on an import and rice it out than get the total package of an american muscle car. Glad too...the last thing i need to see are even more f-bodys being BEAT on.

I've been wanting to purchase a WS6 or a 'maro for the last four years. As some of you have stated, insurance kills the 16-25 age group. The payment for the car alone is "affordable" to me @ age 20, however, the insurance without ZERO accidents is over $500/mo. and UP UP UP from there (full coverage is required on auto loan -- $500 deductible). Even if my father was placed on the loan as the main loanholder, it wouldn't make a difference due to the fact that I'd be driving it under the insurance policy. Keep in mind, I live in the northwest valley of Phoenix-Glendale, AZ. I've come extremely close to finishing a purchase on an F-body on several occasions, but it ALL boils down to insurance rate; just can't afford it when making money for myself w/o help from the parents + going to college full-time/work full-time.

I agree, money is the reason most teens don't drive F-bodys. I'm lucky, I don't pay most of my bills (school, insurance, cell, rent) only thing I have to pay for is my car ($220), food oh yeah and mods. My dad got his muscle car a '74 Nova, and my little brother got his '72 Chevelle SS. So it was only fair that I could get my muscle car. I went modern muscle and got an LS1. But If had to pay for everything there is no way I could afford it. I am one of the lucky ones who can be a college student and have the joy of driving an LS1.
I don't blame them they just are't as lucky as us to be able to dive a 300+ hp every day.

A lot of the imports people have were either hand-me-downs or where purchased for reliability, cheap insurance, and good gas milage. So they take what they have and work with it. And of course TF&TF. A lot of times, the parents probably didn't have a fast car, and used the hand-me-down as the daily driver. So the kid never had the chance to experience a fast car and thought the family car was fast. Or their parents had slow daily drivers, vans, trucks, whatnot, and the Civic seemed much faster then any of those cars.

But then you have those people that are just pure ignorant when it comes to cars.

On another note, I just got my first F-Body this summer, my 97 Formula. I love it, wish it had T-Tops, but I'll live. I've been fascinated with F-Body's ever since I first saw Knight Rider and Smokey&The Bandit. My dream car is a Knight Rider conversion. Someday.

I bought my Z28 in 1999 while I was in the military. I wish I bought a POS Civic.

Honestly with the THOUSANDS I spent on insurance I could have a Z06 or a down payment on a Viper.

~ $21600 in insurance until I got married.

Now it is only $166 a month...

grrrr, it dropped from $598 a month in Colorado for a single guy to $166 a month for a married guy in Texas.

It was ~ $450 a month in west Texas for about 6 months though.... it was a real cash relief. You know only almost $500 a month being a relief and all.

The car only costs $300 a month (huge down payment, used and the guy quoted the car accidentaly as a base '96 V6 instead of a '99 V8 fully loaded Z28 and my paper work was already signed :devil: )

That is why kids drive ricers.

Plus I wouldn't have minded picking up my gf in a stock Civic at all because then I would have had money to take her out to a movie.

Gas consumption too. Teens and young men moving out don't have the cash to pay for gas or 5.5 qts of Mobil 1 synthetic, 275 tires (10.5 inch in the rear), or other stuff like that.

Plus imports don't break as often as our cars.

My friends 91 integra (stock) has only had 1 major repair. A control arm broke from a factory defect ~15 years after it was made.

My trans is starting to leak, both window motors had to be replaced, the car is a b$tch to align and when you do it needs to be done again in 3 months, it burns oil in optimal running condition, my rear end needs to be sealed since it is leaking differential fluid. I never drag the car at a strip and I drive slower than my grandmother (even my wife agrees to that).

I love my car but there is a reason kids stay away from the car, because they really kinda half to. So they get the bug like those of us with muscle/pony cars and mod their Civics. What the problem is instead of a rusted and primered POS muscle car, like my 1977 Pontiac Firebird/chicken Espirit with 115 hp from the factory, they get a nice little import and turn it into a POS ricer with a wing that looks like a park bench.

That and they think that a Tiburon is fast when my gram's Taurus is able to torch it.

I bought my Z28 in 1999 while I was in the military. I wish I bought a POS Civic.

Honestly with the THOUSANDS I spent on insurance I could have a Z06 or a down payment on a Viper.

~ $21600 in insurance until I got married.

Now it is only $166 a month...

grrrr, it dropped from $598 a month in Colorado for a single guy to $166 a month for a married guy in Texas.

It was ~ $450 a month in west Texas for about 6 months though.... it was a real cash relief. You know only almost $500 a month being a relief and all.

The car only costs $300 a month (huge down payment, used and the guy quoted the car accidentaly as a base '96 V6 instead of a '99 V8 fully loaded Z28 and my paper work was already signed :devil: )

That is why kids drive ricers.



damn man.. thats high insurance.

i got my 2001 camaro while i was 20 years old, between it, my 98 dakota r/t (yes.. they are expensive to insure), and my 1985 dodge ramcharger (the most expensive of the 3 to insure) i was only payin 225 a month. though I did have a clean record.

i now have the ramcharger, AND a 2002 trans am, i am paying 170 a month for both vehicles and I've been in a wreck, and gotten 2 tickets (one for the wreck, and 1 i took a class for).

did you have a lot of tickets? thats just DAMN high insurance dude... sucks bad!

I love my TA, loved my 01 camaro, and when I was 17 and bought a 98 ss convert I liked it for the whole week i had it, it was just too anemic for me with the auto though (i had a 10 sec drag car at the same time).

I had a Camaro when I was 15, sold it when I was 16, bought the 01 Trans Am when I was 16, and had it ever since (i'm now 17). I plan on selling it not too long for either an 04 cobra or an 03-04 C5 or Z06. I never wanted a honda or anything like that. Now I WOULD take a nice turbo RX7 or Supra or something of that nature, but nothing beats the torque of one of these cars, along with numerous other things.

I did have a wreck, so did my female cousin. They pratically quadrupled my insurance rates, they did barely anything to hers (we are the same age).

Now with a completely clean record if I added my wife to my insurance (currently excluded) it would go from $166 a month to an insane $478.

Full coverage sucks but when you hit a deer and it costs 7k to repair the car it is worth it.

...plus that whole legality thing what with the fact I am still making payments.

My POS '77 Espirit Firebird was ~$100 a month with minimum insurance when I was 18, that was because I had no prior insurance coverage and my license for about 2 days before I got the insurance.

Also think about how many parents actually want their kids to get a car with 300 hp from the factory. There is no way in hell I am going to let my daughter or son (when I have one) get a Camaro. I'd rather them have a Kia Sephia. The only reason I talked my grandmother into co-signing with me is because she and her husband both owned GTO's back in the day. Hers was high gloss black (highly modified ~8 miles to the gallon on the highway) and his was a stock Judge (orange) They would buy new cars every 2 years but those where the last two they owned. My gram would race people on the highway and go over 165 mph in the straights. They can pay for their own muscle car (I can imagine the little b@st@rd defaulting because he/she can't afford insurance).

I bet Mustangs are also a good reason people don't buy muscle cars. They really embarrass the domestic world when a moron in a GT races a low powered import and loses.

That and the fact that there are not any other "fast" American cars. I mean a Sebring or a Avenger, my Sebring is slow as crap.

Supe up a Neon or a Cavalier and then you like a moron half the time when you lose to an RSX. You can buy a Probe but a name like Probe is embarrassing then you lose again...

The Focus I think is really a cute little car.

Imagine you owning the car and then hearing me say it is cute. :gay:

Monte Carlo's are a joke when you consider speed. :(

Impala's are not built for speed (I am not talking about the older SS and those are just too heavy). :bored:

Old cars are just that old, it is hard as hell to find one that really works. Half the time you read the for sale sign and all it says is "runs, need tranny work".

^ That makes people run screaming. Plus no dad's going to give a kid a muscle car hand-me-down that runs, they usually keep it themselves and dream of fixing it up.

1980's such as the f-body, a true embarrassment for America. GM just could not get around the emissions wall that it hit. That and the drastically reduced quality of American products. :(

I'm 17 and got my first car about two weeks ago. I got a 2001 Z28 with 38k miles on it. Insurance is $2200 a year ($183 a month). That's with full coverage through USAA.

And I'm not like most kids my age. I respect my car and know it's very fast. I don't need to prove it to anyone.

My reasons for not wanting an fbody: (I am 23yrs old btw)

-They are heavy, need to be at least 3200lbs
-solid rear axle
-interior ergonomics, I feel cramped in one even with the seat back and I'm only 5'10 wtf?
-seating position, WTF is the end of the hood? Who knows... I cant stand that feeling when I sit inside of it. I'm sure Id get used to it, so it isnt a deal breaker, but that coupled with the other complaints only hurts it more.
-insurance, honestly I wouldnt be caught dead in a V6 fbody,(heavy + weak motor = beat by every import with a little bit of work done = bad times) and the v8s are so expensive insurance wise I am better off getting an import and messing with it. Insurance on a V6 fbody is still pretty high for what you get. It isnt hard to be as fast as a mildly modified ls1 if you know what you are doing with the right imports. Beating an LT1 car with standard bolt ons in an import is almost a no brainer for anyone that isnt a retard.

Ok, so realistically given that Id want IRS and better interior ergonomics I'm probably better off with a GTO, right? Nope, they are EVER HEAVIER. If GM made a GTO that was perhaps slightly smaller that was 3200lbs FULLY LOADED (ie: stripped was like 2900lbs or something) that would get me into a rwd gm car. Or hell, if they put an LS1 into the solstice I might be tempted.

Those saying it takes 15-20k for an import to run 13's and 14's are talking to some retarded individuals. I assure you I can get nearly any popular import into the 12s for less than 4k max. (with some being less than 1k)

Power isnt everything when it comes to selling cars. GM has proven that with the fbody cars. To sell a car well you have to be able to entice women to buy it, and older men to buy it. The fbody cars got rid of alot of women with the complaints I made above about ergonomics, and seeing the front end. The older men were scared away by the high power,(resulting high insurance) and its ergonomics. Why buy a 30k fbody when a 30k bmw/infinity/lexus/whatever will suffice just fine? You dont need the power of the fbody (most people really dont) so why deal with its shortfalls?

Thats my .02 anyway. I only wish the solstice would have looked like a mini transam w/ an ls1 varient (5.3L would be fine in that car) so I could have gotten the car I am waiting for GM to build. So obviously I'm not in a GM car given that they make no chassis's that entice me besides the C5 and C6 vettes. (though the transams sure do look good...) So I took it upon myself to build my own ls1 powered car that weighs what I want, and is IRS with a small back seat instead :D

Why would you want IRS? So it breaks the first time you get into it? All the Cobra guys that i know, that's one of the first things they change. JMO Though

And anyways, some people just aren't into imports, some people aren't into domestics. I personally like domestics, but already have a big enough car payment, and insurance to deal with. Plus, living on my own and going to school. The T/A will come after I'm done with college (in about a year).
It does amaze when I see all the highschool kids that have the V8's though, I just wonder how they pay for everything? I know I couldn't afford it in highschool and I had a full time job.

My reasons for not wanting an fbody: (I am 23yrs old btw)

-They are heavy, need to be at least 3200lbs

So they are 200lbs over what you want, thats not a big deal...

-solid rear axle

Only downside to that is handling on bumpy roads. Its superior in drag racing, and not hard to make handle good.

-interior ergonomics, I feel cramped in one even with the seat back and I'm only 5'10 wtf?
Are you going to be driving in the back seat? Who cares about back seat space? I admit, its crammed, but I have no complaints from any passengers yet.

-seating position, WTF is the end of the hood? Who knows... I cant stand that feeling when I sit inside of it. I'm sure Id get used to it, so it isnt a deal breaker, but that coupled with the other complaints only hurts it more.
In my T/A (powered seats) its sooo comfortable, sure you cant see all the way over the hood, but go out and play with the car and you forget/dont care about it.

-insurance, honestly I wouldnt be caught dead in a V6 fbody,(heavy + weak motor = beat by every import with a little bit of work done = bad times) and the v8s are so expensive insurance wise I am better off getting an import and messing with it. Insurance on a V6 fbody is still pretty high for what you get. It isnt hard to be as fast as a mildly modified ls1 if you know what you are doing with the right imports. Beating an LT1 car with standard bolt ons in an import is almost a no brainer for anyone that isnt a retard.
Insurance on any performance car isnt going to be cheap.

Ok, so realistically given that Id want IRS and better interior ergonomics I'm probably better off with a GTO, right? Nope, they are EVER HEAVIER. If GM made a GTO that was perhaps slightly smaller that was 3200lbs FULLY LOADED (ie: stripped was like 2900lbs or something) that would get me into a rwd gm car. Or hell, if they put an LS1 into the solstice I might be tempted.

Hello, are you forgetting about the Corvette? LS1+3200lbs+IRS...

Those saying it takes 15-20k for an import to run 13's and 14's are talking to some retarded individuals. I assure you I can get nearly any popular import into the 12s for less than 4k max. (with some being less than 1k)

When people say "import" they are refering to japanese economy cars for the most part, in which take a crap ton of money to get fast while keeping the interior, and being able to turn.

Power isnt everything when it comes to selling cars. GM has proven that with the fbody cars. To sell a car well you have to be able to entice women to buy it, and older men to buy it. The fbody cars got rid of alot of women with the complaints I made above about ergonomics, and seeing the front end. The older men were scared away by the high power,(resulting high insurance) and its ergonomics. Why buy a 30k fbody when a 30k bmw/infinity/lexus/whatever will suffice just fine? You dont need the power of the fbody (most people really dont) so why deal with its shortfalls?

Clearly F-bodies are made to be PERFORMANCE cars, for car enthusiasts, you know?
Why buy an overpriced BMW/Lexus etc. when a cheapo civic gets the job done?

Thats my .02 anyway. I only wish the solstice would have looked like a mini transam w/ an ls1 varient (5.3L would be fine in that car) so I could have gotten the car I am waiting for GM to build. So obviously I'm not in a GM car given that they make no chassis's that entice me besides the C5 and C6 vettes. (though the transams sure do look good...) So I took it upon myself to build my own ls1 powered car that weighs what I want, and is IRS with a small back seat instead :D

Have you actually driven an F-body before?

So they are 200lbs over what you want, thats not a big deal...

Only downside to that is handling on bumpy roads. Its superior in drag racing, and not hard to make handle good.



over 200lbs from what I already consider the absolute heaviest performance car I'd ever want. Dont let the "only on bumpy roads" thing fool you. The reality is "they handle just as good on a glass smooth track surface", the real world is pretty damn bumpy last I drove.


Are you going to be driving in the back seat? Who cares about back seat space? I admit, its crammed, but I have no complaints from any passengers yet.


I was actually talking about the front seats. Amazing the little foot and head room you have in such a large car. thats my complaint.


In my T/A (powered seats) its sooo comfortable, sure you cant see all the way over the hood, but go out and play with the car and you forget/dont care about it.



If I wanted comfort one of the mentioned luxury cars, or even a typical economy car would suffice. though the seats in the fbody cars arent bad.



Insurance on any performance car isnt going to be cheap.


Very true. The discussion at hand though is why they didnt sell well to the 16-25yr old group. Higher end sports cars dont sell to this group well period due in part to insurance reasons. How many 16-25yr olds do you know with brand new 27-30k+ sports cars? I can count on my hands how many I know..


Hello, are you forgetting about the Corvette? LS1+3200lbs+IRS...


Nope, havent forgotten about it at all. Its a great vehicle and I intend to have one some day. One of the best looking cars of the 90s with handling and power to back it up.


When people say "import" they are refering to japanese economy cars for the most part, in which take a crap ton of money to get fast while keeping the interior, and being able to turn.


First, let me say that I dont like fwd, nor hondas. However, a civic is an import economy car. We had someone here locally running 7.51-7.55 in the 1/8 with nothing but a bolt on turbo kit in his civic hatchback. It ran this way for 2yrs before he sold it. It still runs perfectly to this day. Thats what, 11.7-11.9 in the 1/4 for about $3300. Granted you can get there cheaper in an fbody, but thats certainly not astronomical prices to have a daily drivable 11 second vehicle. I have other examples, but I wont bore you guys. It all comes down to "does the person know what they are doing?" the answer most of the time is "no" because the import community is filled with lots of young, ignorant people who are there simply because its cool, hip, and trendy to be there. Alot dont even actually care about the cars themselves.




Clearly F-bodies are made to be PERFORMANCE cars, for car enthusiasts, you know?
Why buy an overpriced BMW/Lexus etc. when a cheapo civic gets the job done?


Then perhaps the bad interior ergonomics, along with high insurance stopped demand for performance cars? Most people are not car nuts. They buy a car based on how it meets their needs. If the cost is prohibitive to own or insure it, they will find something else. Noone really *needs* 310whp in their daily driver, so that really isnt too much of a deciding factor in the purchase unless you happen to be one of the pyscho's like you and me that think that 310whp isnt fast enough. As is apparent, there arent enough of those out there to keep perfomance cars around. Even most of the high end jap cars had left the market around when the fbodys were killed off. GM is just taking its sweet damn time to get another performance car to the market while all the other marks are selling 350z's, mustangs, WRX's, EVO's, and whatever other model.


Have you actually driven an F-body before?

Sure have. LOVED the motor, hated the chassis. Too large, too heavy, and too "not connected" feeling for my taste. Far more a muscle car than a sports car IMO. Which is fine, but I like sports cars, not muscle cars. (sports cars being ones designed for handling as their primary goal) The LS1 is a gem of a motor though, and I did like that about the fbodys. Thats why I'm using it in the 93 rx7 :)

Why would you want IRS? So it breaks the first time you get into it? All the Cobra guys that i know, that's one of the first things they change. JMO Though


IRS can be made to hold power, its simply easier to bolt up a non-cobra rear which happens to be solid axle. I'd want IRS because I'm not a dedicated drag racer. I pulled consistant 1.5-1.6 60fts in my turbo miata (see vid in sig if you dont believe) and it was IRS.

Yes I know solid axle is better for drag racing. That still doesnt negate the fact I want IRS on my street car. further more, I enjoy turning just as much as I do going fast in a straight line. About the only place you'll break an IRS with power that is within reason on the street is off the line in a drag race with slicks: something I RARELY do on the street ;)

Have you actually driven an F-body before?

I bet he hasn't and I bet he drives a civic.... :owned:

'93 Rx7 Touring - LS1/T56 Your kidding right...My bud has one and the thing doesnt even have a backseat.....same as the miata...and i'm sure lotsa of people think the miata is sexy :eyes:

Actually, yes it does have a backseat. In the rest of the world the rx7 was a 2+2. I have the backseats in my car right now. They are only slightly smaller than fbody back seats. Not large, but big enough. They came this way due to insurance being alot cheaper. Given that it was a 38k car back then here in america, they probably figured anyone buying it wouldnt care about insurance. In japan the car wasnt priced nearly as high. I'd put it in the same price range as an Fbody was back then if you were comparing "what an rx7 cost in japan" vs "what a camaro cost in america"

Yeah, I drive a honda... OR, you are ignorant and closed minded. One or the other, right? Wow, you really owned me with that comment. Jump straight from "he owns an import" to "he has a fwd slow honda!" :eyes:

I like most all cars actually, domestic and import. I would never waste my time fixing up a fwd car due to the diminishing returns based on traction. (plus you cant punch the throttle around a turn and get sideways, and thats what its all about isnt it? :D) The attitude here is that the fbody is the pinnacle of performance cars and that if its not made in america (Fbodys were made in canada werent they?) its crap. Sorry guys, its a cool car, but the pinnacle it is NOT. Spare me your miata jokes, trust me it doesnt bother me else I wouldnt have bought them in the first place. Not only that, the joke just made it all that much better as I whooped up on the people who did talk the shit :engarde:

IRS can be made to hold power, its simply easier to bolt up a non-cobra rear which happens to be solid axle. I'd want IRS because I'm not a dedicated drag racer. I pulled consistant 1.5-1.6 60fts in my turbo miata (see vid in sig if you dont believe) and it was IRS.

Yes I know solid axle is better for drag racing. That still doesnt negate the fact I want IRS on my street car. further more, I enjoy turning just as much as I do going fast in a straight line. About the only place you'll break an IRS with power that is within reason on the street is off the line in a drag race with slicks: something I RARELY do on the street ;)

gotcha

when i was 16 i drove a 93 ford tempo, with a red velvet interior. It was free, but it cost me 5000 in the end, when i jumped it and i bottomed out and shattered my oil pan. it was a lot of fun though. im kinda glad i started out with that car, because if i had started out with a Z28 or an SS i would have already been dead or wrecked that thing, because i just didnt care what happened to my car.... afterall, it was just a car. Then when i turned 19 i got a 1998 Z28 M6, then 3 months later a tire blewout on the freeway and i rolled it. Now my insurance is gonna be a little more than 500 dollars a month! I should be getting into an new FBody sometime this week or early next week though, so no worries! and no more driving my sister's civic to work!

F-bodies aren't heavy for what you have.

Look how wide they are, look at the size of the engine.

They aren't really that heavy. Honestly.

My wheels are twice as wide as most econo-cars.

For our "weak @ss rear end" it still is rated to hold 600 hp and lots of people drive it with 550 hp.

Yeah, that's weak all right. Of course it really wasn't designed to go to the track with slicks and do 6000 rpm launches but it works for what I use it for.

I wish I had an IRS set-up. I really do, its pretty nice.

Also for our heavy cars, we have pretty d@mn good 0-60 mph times and pretty d@mn good quarter miles for a completely stock vehicle.

Plus we have great gas mileage compared to other vehicles with similiar hp.

Look at a Miata it has crappy gas mileage for it weight, engine, and hp.

Yeah I mentioned hp and engine seperately because 4, 6, & 8 cylinder engines have different efficiencies with different hp. Hell my '77 got like 20 miles per gallon and it only had 115 hp but that is a different story.

Nah, Rx7's don't have backseats, you may "think" it does but compared to the non-existent f-body rear seats the Rx'7's are even worse.

Plus my stock A4 beat the Rx-7 in the local area everytime he tried.

Heh, the guy was a real jack-off though. I have no idea how well he drives but stock Rx-7 quarters really aren't that great when you look at the different years. Plus they have the worst gas mileage and you have to practically replace the engine every 60k miles. My friends dad got sick of the repairs on his.


Oh yeah my rack and pinion seems to be leaking....

I know it needs work on it and the last 2 repair shops I went to said that a spot check shows everything on the car is fine.

Than why is half my rack and pinion covered in leaking crud when the entire bottom of my car is almost show car clean??? :judge:

@sshole.............

No wait back when I beat the Rx-7 I had FLP headers and my Hooker cat-back.

Though I still had the stock lid.... I really needed a new one.

Don't think I am ragging on Miata's either. They are my wife's favorite car, I just make for of her through them.

F-Bodys are an enthusiasts car. And they always will be. Those of us who love them deal with the little imperfections because there is something in our personality that makes us want high horsepower, high insurance, low gas mileage etc. Times are changing and that's why everyone is buying imports, I don't blame them with gas mileage nowdays. But for me, I love my Camaro and would rather walk due to gas prices then drive an import.

When I drive my Camaro I get a different feeling than anyone who drives an import ever will, it has heritage, style, performance and so many other things. And it says something about you when you drive an f-body over an import. We are a unique breed and always will be. Sure you can buy a Civic, dump 20 grand into it and have a fast car. But your still driving a Honda Civic, a car built for economy. Even if you buy a WRX or something of that nature, your buying a popular culture car and an import. And think about it this way, they are already turbocharged from the factory. Imagine if they had Forced Induction on an f-body from the factory. I always say there is no replacement for displacement, if you dump 20k into my Camaro and 20k into an STI my car is going to be faster, not as driveable, but faster. My Camaro means something to Me, not to put import drivers down, but if I had an import the car would just be a car, and wouldn't mean as much. I wouldn't trade my $5500 LT1 Camaro for a 35k STI, Lancer etc. Or the most pimped out Supra on the planet. I'm a diehard F-Body enthusiast and always will be. I'm not worried about what other people think of my car, because I know what it means to Me.

Anyway, we can all hope that GM and other american companies will get there shit together, because at this rate we are a dieing breed that is going to be dead in the future. We have to keep the youth buying domestics over imports or our country is going to be over dependent on foreign companies. 95$ of my highschool would rather have a cool looking Civic then a 10 second F-Body.

I'm 18, drive a 93 LT1 which I bought for $5500 with 88k on it. I pay for my car payment $162 a month, insurance payment $181 a month (full coverage), Gas, Mods, and about everything else. I'm proud to drive my car, not only because I pay for it... but because I'm driving my dream car. And I don't know anyone who has a faster car than me, and paid less then $5500 for it.

The visibility factor kills me on my f-bod and the disconnected feeling with the raod. I always think about selling it but I usually always return to the land of torque

F-Bodys are an enthusiasts car. And they always will be. Those of us who love them deal with the little imperfections because there is something in our personality that makes us want high horsepower, high insurance, low gas mileage etc. Times are changing and that's why everyone is buying imports, I don't blame them with gas mileage nowdays. But for me, I love my Camaro and would rather walk due to gas prices then drive an import.

When I drive my Camaro I get a different feeling than anyone who drives an import ever will, it has heritage, style, performance and so many other things. And it says something about you when you drive an f-body over an import. We are a unique breed and always will be. Sure you can buy a Civic, dump 20 grand into it and have a fast car. But your still driving a Honda Civic, a car built for economy. Even if you buy a WRX or something of that nature, your buying a popular culture car and an import. And think about it this way, they are already turbocharged from the factory. Imagine if they had Forced Induction on an f-body from the factory. I always say there is no replacement for displacement, if you dump 20k into my Camaro and 20k into an STI my car is going to be faster, not as driveable, but faster. My Camaro means something to Me, not to put import drivers down, but if I had an import the car would just be a car, and wouldn't mean as much. I wouldn't trade my $5500 LT1 Camaro for a 35k STI, Lancer etc. Or the most pimped out Supra on the planet. I'm a diehard F-Body enthusiast and always will be. I'm not worried about what other people think of my car, because I know what it means to Me.

Anyway, we can all hope that GM and other american companies will get there shit together, because at this rate we are a dieing breed that is going to be dead in the future. We have to keep the youth buying domestics over imports or our country is going to be over dependent on foreign companies. 95$ of my highschool would rather have a cool looking Civic then a 10 second F-Body.

I'm 18, drive a 93 LT1 which I bought for $5500 with 88k on it. I pay for my car payment $162 a month, insurance payment $181 a month (full coverage), Gas, Mods, and about everything else. I'm proud to drive my car, not only because I pay for it... but because I'm driving my dream car. And I don't know anyone who has a faster car than me, and paid less then $5500 for it.

I am Azrael's wife... the above post is how I feel about Camaro's as well.. my first car was a 68 SS... there is just something about driving one of these cars.. most of my friends do not understand it.. but as the poster above describes it.. there is a history with this car.. I have had 4 Camaro's.. 68, 78, 85, and our 02.. I am a short 5' 3".. and I really cant see over the hood.. but it just doesnt bother me.. my husband is 6' 2".. and he says it is tight..but I dont think he would give up the SS for anything..

I really hope they bring the Camaro back.. I also wish that more of the younger crowd would give the car a chance.. it is an amazing car to drive.. I fell in love with the Camaro.. and know that if they dont bring it back.. it will be a huge loss for enthusiasts like myself and husband..

Crash I understand your points.. but really the fbody is not that heavy.. and the other little things that you mentioned.. the inside of the car.. once you get used to it... you hardly even notice... I myself would never own an import, civic, Lexus, or BMW.. or any cars made by any of those companies.. as long as I can I will drive a Camaro.. or hubbies F150..

Anyway I just wanted to say that I agree with the poster that I quoted.. that driving an fbody is just something that is hard to explain.. history, speed, power, prestige... just my opinion :)

I wanted one since I was a kid but things distracted me into forgetting about that involved with sports girls school and work. some people just don't like the body styling. think the cars are too big and they feel like they are lying down when they drive. they have so many complaints about the car. my first car was a honda accord that was modded to hell from the factory (financial aid was good to me) and I was above everyone else but it got totalled and I had to find a new car. funny thing is I was going to sacrifice everything to get the concept dodge viper gts-r but wanted a 2000 celica instead. luckily my friend brought me to the darkside or I would have been a ricer. he introduced me to Shawnese (my ls1 baby) and when we went for a test drive I said to myself I have to have this car.

Crash I understand your points.. but really the fbody is not that heavy..

Its all good. I was just listing *my* reasons. I totally realize that my perception of weight in a car is titled way towards the light side given that I daily drive a 2200lb 200hp miata, and play with a 2800lb ls1 rx7. I actually consider the rx7 to feel kind of heavy to be honest.

Yeah, the rx7 back seats are even smaller, but I can still stuff small girls back there :D

I used to drive a Ford Taurus. The Camaro ruined every other car on the road for me.

I also used to drive a Saab. Low to the ground and it handled better than a Japanese car. I thought I was going to f*ck*ng die when I drove it though. I prefer the extra "heavy" steel in front of me when I am going over 130 mph on the straights. I mean the imports make me feel like I am driving a lunar mobile with a little bit of a glass bubble around me...

Of course it was an older Saab and not a major import sports car. They even turbo-charged the one I used to own (mine wasn't). I could not image have the thing turbo-charged though the thing felt like it was going to blow the engine past 65 mph.

I had to spend a year over seas in a combat zone to get the money to buy my SS when I bought it a year ago my father told me that I would wreck it in a week. Well a year later and no dents! I love my car and have loved them since I was a little kid. I grew up on an island were my dad and mom making 200k a year are poor and a bmw is a cheap car. I would never sell my ss, I will get an 4 banger for a collage ride. But I wont wast any money on turbos.

A BMW is a cheap car? Does everyone drive Lambo's as beaters or something?

So that is why the economy is so bad, people living on islands have taken it out of the economy... Then they send it all to Germany to buy BMW clunckers for their 16 year old, then they use Lambo's as there beater to get to and from work (it gets good gas mileage right) and they use there personal helicopters to fly around in on the weekends.

...and I thought investing in the foriegn exchange market was bad for America's economy...

Its all good. I was just listing *my* reasons. I totally realize that my perception of weight in a car is titled way towards the light side given that I daily drive a 2200lb 200hp miata, and play with a 2800lb ls1 rx7. I actually consider the rx7 to feel kind of heavy to be honest.

Yeah, the rx7 back seats are even smaller, but I can still stuff small girls back there :D

Oh man that was REALLY bad (the back seat part).

I took my seats out for a custom subwoofer box.

To bad too. I finally talk my wife into a threesome with a french exchange college student and I haven't an easy way to drive her around.

Actually my wife talked me into it but hey she has a sex drive like a 13 year old boy and at 23 I can't compete... :(

I should be glad that she doesn't like other men just young women. :judge:

That and I almost got in trouble with the police because I took two girls out that lied about their age. They told me 17 and 18 (I was 19 at the time) turns out they were actually 13 and 14... :eek2:

I actually carded my wife when we first met. :flipeye:

im shocked at some of the insurance payments you guys pay. i pay around 120 a month now and if i had to pay double that i would sell the camaro and get a suv or something. my truck is 80 a month one way.

oh man, youre lucky!!! or just older than 25 and a good driver.... i pay around 500 a month.... and i dont even have a car right now

That has got to suck having to pay $500 when you don't even have a car.

I saved like $750 bucks ever 6-months by going with an insurance agent instead of going through a company directly. That and I pay monthly now instead of the entire amount before I get the coverage so it is in reality closer to $1000.

That is REALLY good advice for people under 25 btw because insurance agents get steep discounts and cut REALLY good deals with the companies.

hmmmm.... good advice! where can i find one of these insurance agents? would you reccomend any?

Just to throw my hat in...I'm 21, and I bought my Camaro SS with a loan through the USAA (military). The insurance is also really, really good. Otherwise I'd probably have had to wait until I was a couple years older with a steady job to get it.

Crash, if you want the power of an LS1, the handling of a IRS, and interior ergonomics up to your standards, then get an FD RX-7 and swap in a LS1/LS6/LS2/LS7 motor. The LS1/T56 only weighs 50lbs more then the TT set-up of the RX7.

Crash, if you want the power of an LS1, the handling of a IRS, and interior ergonomics up to your standards, then get an FD RX-7 and swap in a LS1/LS6/LS2/LS7 motor. The LS1/T56 only weighs 50lbs more then the TT set-up of the RX7.

Thats exactly what I'm in the middle of doing :)

You will start to see it change as the Hondas are kinda boring now. The younger kids are seeing older american cars as cool again. SEMA has already written about the bad sales of import aftermarket and increase in full size american truck aftermarket. Keep your fingers crossed and everone will laugh at fart piped shitwagons like we do.

Thanks to my father being a fanatic ever since the first T/A he purchased when he was 16, the f-body' are the only cars he has ever purchased until his last one with me. Thankfully he split it w/ me b/c he knew how much of a passion i had for the f-body ever since i was 13. Now im 18 and we still have our 2002 firebird. Im only a freshman in college/ but as soon as i graduate and get a good job/ you can bet your ass my next car will be the the car i have now totally redone!

Im 16 atm and ive had 5 cars/trucks... Ive never in my life looked at a civic or any car in that group and thought, "hey thats a cool car". My first truck was a 78 2wd chevy with a 454 that i did a mild build on with my brother, and i owned another 454 chevy after that and currently I own a 99 camaro 3.8 ... only thing i could afford lol, z28's and ss's are all over 12k here and i just dont have the job stability or the money to handle that. I also own a 76 blazer-6" lift, 1tons, 38's etc... and a 94 ford f-150 for winter driving since the blazer is usually broke lol. Im more into the offroad scene but believe me... as soon as i get a steady job im ditching the v6 and getting and ls1 without blinking an eye.

Oh and one more thing I would like to add.
There are alot of fast imports that are Civic's
In the northern VA area. And in my area.
But they have a hell of lot more money in there cars then I do in mine.

my buddy lives in Woodbridge, he has a white civic hatch that used run N/A ran 12.0s @ 116 now he has a turbo on it puts 800hp to the wheels and runs 8s, he just opened up a performance shop somewhere around there.

Im 18 and my first car was a 79 T/A then i got a 98 SS A4 which i traded for my 99 SS M6

You will start to see it change as the Hondas are kinda boring now. The younger kids are seeing older american cars as cool again. SEMA has already written about the bad sales of import aftermarket and increase in full size american truck aftermarket. Keep your fingers crossed and everone will laugh at fart piped shitwagons like we do.

Sorry, but thats still not all that cool. Full size truck performance? Yeah its rwd, and it has a big motor, but thats really about all it has going for it. I'm not sure which is worse, full size trucks that are very loud, yet still slow (see:weight) or very loud fart cans.... :bang:

At least I can see over the fart can cars while I'm in traffic. Why cant people just get excited about rwd CARS.

I'm 30 and my first car was a 99 T/A in my sig. Got that car when I was 24 (don't really need a car in the city to get around) Now I have the Z28, 98 dollars a month for full coverage. I pay less in insurance than my buddy with his 94 integra, his is over 210 a month for liability only and he's 26. :eek2:

I'm almost 20 and I wanted a T/A since I was 12, after my truck that I owned before decided to stop I jumped on my T/A and haven't looked back ever since :), oh yeah I hate imports, most of them around here just make too much noise without doing much. Oh yeah I pay 120 for insurance a month.

I kinda agree with alot of kids wanting imports, but there is also ALOT of kids that want american cars, that cant afford them so they get what they can. Me and half of my friends have american cars. My first car was my TA anouther friend has had 2 5/0 mustangs, anouther a 69 mach 1 with shaker hood, now his parents also got him an 03 cobra. Then I have a few friends with imports, they arent your typical ricers though. They respect american cars and know how fast they are, but want to make thier cars fast, and they have. However to make them fast they have put around $10,000 into them. I think its really half and half. Some kids want ricers and think they are fast, the other half of kids with imports with exhaust, just take what they get from their parents and make the best the can out of it, those are normally the fast one you dont hear aobut since they dont talk shit like the ricers.

I have a POS 99 Jeep Wrangler. Since i live in TEXAS and in a little hicktown called WEIMAR....people think that it is awesome because it is 4x4! The gas mileage sucks but its a family vehicle so i get to drive it(just paying for gas and other things (air filter, oil filter, ect.)) My sisters boyfriend is "superfreakta" and he has had a v6 camaro, 2002 camaro m6, 2001 T/A m6 ws6, and now a 2002 SOM T/A m6 ws6. Every since they have been going out, i have wanted an F-body! I am 15 with a permit and get my license in 2 months! :hail: He let me drive his SOM T/A for less than a mile but DAMN!!! it was AWESOME! that made me want a Trans Am even more! I loved the power and the sound(headers with magnaflow!) haha. I have to drive the Jeep for like a year(if it lasts that long) and hopefully when i turn 16 in December i can get a job and start making some money for a T/A! For insurance which sucks! I will probably start off with a 98-00 T/A, then when i turn about 20 get a SOM T/A!!!!!(if i can even find one still around by then) As for imports there is one Honda Civic Si at our highschool with rims(the only good thing about it) and a fart can. Its a POS!!! It gets a lot of attention tho!!! because everybody gives him shit! Because everyone else has a V8 truck(about 90%) or V8 car. Plus everyone gives him shit because (not to sound racist) but he is an illegal mexican :judge: and no license! haha aint that some sh*T!!! if i tried that....i would get pulled over before i pull out of the driveway! :devil:

I'm amazed no one noticed this thread was originally started TWO YEARS AGO!!! I was 22 when I got my first F body, 94 Firebird V6. It was a nice car and was mostly for the wife at the time. We traded it for a S Blazer about a year later(her idea). I bought a 94 V6 Camaro a year later(again for her). I had several other vehicles since I was 16, a lot of S trucks and everything I have owned has been GM. I was 28 before I finally bought a new 02 SS Camaro. It was a bit of a stretch for me since I was single and had a house built 2 years prior but I wanted a brand new one and it was my last chance. I have always liked American cars and haven't found a foreign car that I like enough to even dream about buying for more than a week then I find some American car I'd rather have and mod. Insurance sucks in Michigan and there's no way I could have afforded a V8 Camaro/Firebird back when I was 17 or 18. At least I have one now!

I was 20 years old when I got my first Sports car it was and is a Formy still have it at the age of 29 my dream car at the age of 15 and 16 was an 89 IROC Z or an 81 Z28 with Air Induction loved them whole heartedly and still do I ended up at the age of 15 with a V6 cutlass supreme lol

The import market is appearance only at the enthuisiast level.

And GM doesn't care about making affordable fun cars anymore. That's why the GTO is closer to $40k than $20k.

I'm glad Dodge and Ford are kicking our asses so badly, maybe GM will wake up and put an LS1 powered RWD lightweight car with a real trunk for under $20k.

In my opinion, for this car to be successful it would have to be cheap (under $20k to start), have limited options, (stereo, manual/auto, exterior/interior colors), be lightweight (under 3000 lbs) have reasonable seating for 4, and have a real truck.

Basicly, I want something about like an SN95 mustang with an LS1 and T56. I'd buy two, my wife loves the Camaro but hates the back seats, the ride height, and the lack of a trunk.

You could call this car the NOVA, and I'd be a very very happy many with 2 such cars in my driveway: an auto in yellow and a manual in black.

I'm 21 and my first car was a 98 camaro rs when i was 18. if it wouldn't be for freaking insuranse i could easilly afford a camaro SS or a WS6 :bang: I love muscle cars n I can guarantee that i'll buy a nice f body in the near future :devil: or something with a LS1/2/6/7 :devil:

I'm 18 and my first car was given to me so this is my first purchased car. I wouldn't even consider buying an import, the younger market literally just has no idea what a nice piece of American Muscle has. Fuckin rice lovin idoits.

I wish I bought a 1993 Toyota Celica when I was 18.

Why???

Because I could be driving in a loaded 2006 Z06 right now.





As it is I am actually (yes actually) saving up for a Dodge Viper.

GM just doesn't have anything for me anymore. To many 'vettes on the road and they are sorta getting bland compared to some of the newer vehicles coming out.

Oh yeah, and I could never go out and buy a new one. With 42k base pricing and every single year they make a new car that the next year has new features that the prior one didn't have available. Why not? Because they are new and because they want you to buy a new one.

Wasn't the first Z06 only 385 hp, weren't the color choices for GM in '98 a lot more limited than in '99.

In 2000 they added the heads up display for Corvettes which I think is a neato feature.

GTO's started with LS1's then switched to LS2's.

2001 LS6 intake manifolds (like a minimum $500 cash upgrade for us '99s) and they ditched the EGR.

Oh yeah, and they got rid of the F-body.

At least they replaced it with the anime looking SS Cobolt (which seems no one likes), and they had the SS Silverado (which I have only actually seen 1 before and that was in a video game), and the completely non-functional SSR truck thingy. Those don't sell very well either since you can buy a nicer functional vehicle for less. Those vehicles work for people with more disposible cash. My vehicles last for over 10 years.

I think the new Saturn Sky is one of the nicest vehicles is coming from GM for QUITE some time. The interior is gorgeous and it is a very reasonable price. Though the Pontiac version is kind of dumpy looking and it doesn't compare well to the Miata/MX-5 oh yeah and its front grill looks like it is trying to copy BMW....

My name is Sean, i am 19 and i do not want an import. not that i would never buy one, i just dont want one. my first car purchased by me at 19 was a Chevy S10. before that i had an olds alero purchased for me by my parents. Why an S10? because i need the money and it met my needs. It hauls stuff, gets great gas mileage(4cyl), is impossible to break, and is RWD and a 5-speed. if it had been an auto, i would not have bought it. i need money because i need college. when i get out of college, or money comes my way, i will purchase a V8 RWD Manual vehicle, maybe a car, maybe a truck.

As Genesis said, it seems like nobody is making cool new cheap cars, ESPECIALLY NOT GM. heck, the dodge neon is (was) the absolute untouchable new car performance per dollar leader. A freaking dodge neon. this says something about where GM and Ford have gone.

ive always driven american cars. first car 96 lifted jeep wrangler. 2nd 98 F-150 nothin done. 3rd 2005 mustang GT M5. 4th 2002 Trans Am WS-6. Im 18...............

alot of it was the insurance so i bought a 2wd s10 xtreme when i was 17 which is cheap on insurance since its not a rollover risk. and im putting an ls1 in it :-) i found away to get an fbody without the insurance. next step is to beat my dads 02 camaro....

When I was 18 I bought an Import. An Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5 speed. I bought it for 2 grand and put 2 grand into it to make it run right and drive fast. And it did haul some serious ass. It was more than capable of running low 13s. I raced evos and pulled on them. But, I decided to sell it and get my vette. The vette is definetly faster and looks a hell of alot better. I understand people that buy DSMs, they are cheap fast cars. I do not understand why people buy civics.

Cost is #1. When I bought my '98, it cost $31K. Insurance was about $1,900 for the first year (and I was 27). Used are a better buy but the insurance is still high.

Ricemobiles are fairly cheap and the money saved on the car and insurance gives additional money for the fart pipe.

I do have to admit onething about the rice-revolution; atleast they are descent to look at. In my day, guys only worried about the engine and would drive around with a multi-colored primered car. Now the cars have no balls but, they look good (not to my taste though).

Noone really *needs* 310whp in their daily driver
I don't believe you speak for everyone. ;)

I do have to admit onething about the rice-revolution; atleast they are descent to look at. In my day, guys only worried about the engine and would drive around with a multi-colored primered car. Now the cars have no balls but, they look good (not to my taste though).

You must live somewhere where they actually FINISH their cars. 95% of the ricers around here cruise around with ground effects and body panels in primer or the as molded finish. Some rattle can their parts and ususaly some gaudy color that doesn't go with the car. There are very few finished RIGHT ricers around here. Insurance is definately the big killer why most kids don't buy F bodies. You get any tickets at all and it's even worse.

Hey, im a 20 year old and i own a 2000 SS. And my first car when i was 16 was a 1991 RS. True fbody fan the end!!

Hey, im a 20 year old and i own a 2000 SS. And my first car when i was 16 was a 1991 RS. True fbody fan the end!!

I followed the same path pretty much!
Owned a 1990 RS until I was 20, then bought the Firehawk (now 22) :drive: :joecool:

I dunno I got my ls1 when I was 20. When I go street race most of my friends are around the same age and theyve all had their ls1s for years. Some of the new kids 19 - 23 have new cobras too. Were all 11 second cars too.......

Everyone is different in what they want based on how they grew up and what their company accepts.

im 19 and i bought my 94 Camaro Z28 in june with only 40,000 miles on it and its paid off already this summer i was making about 1200 bucks a week putting in about 70 hours doing grunt work burying natural gasline, so it was pretty easy to pay off and my insurance isn't too bad at all i only pay $448 bucks every six months for full coverage

i dont know why everyone my age wants to buy an import a couple of my friends just got new cars one got a 2004 subaru WRX which he does pay for himself im in college right now but he is doing the work that i was doing over the summer burying gasline and the other friend of mine bought an 04 SRT-4 which isn't really an import, but close enough

its funny cause when we race my ancient LT1 blows that WRX away after about 30-40 because he has an advantage from a dig and that SRT-4 is back about 5 carlengths by 100mph and they get pissed about it they both like driving my car because they say they forgot what real torque felt like lol

bought my 2000 2 years ago at 19 and I paid allstate 3600 a year for insurance, got the car for 15,000, thats why most teens don't get them. That and fast and the furious got it into their head that imports are fast. Silly kids, imports are for foreigners. and damn that fart pipe crap its so annoying!

Look at me I'm 16 and my fist car was a 01 SS! My next car is gona be a Vette or a 01/02 WS6 in 5 or so years. They are great cars, and peope think my brothers stang gt is way way faster then my car. I hate ricers, and my dream car is a Z06 with over 500hp to the ground! So we are not all like that just me and and handul of others feel the same as me, hell my best friend is getting a 00 or 01 Vette or WS6.

That's because you have to much money! lol. Im 20, holding down a 40 hour a week job or more making roughly $10 an hour or about $22,500 a year. My car was financed for $27,000 and it was only worth 14,000 with 35,000 miles on it. I'm just one of the smart ones that knows what a real car is and if what I payed doesnt say how much I love my car I dont know what does. I say everyone just likes what they like no matter if it is an F-bod or a tuner. My brothers wife has an eclipse that's a show car. I personally think it looks like shit but at the same time it's not mine and I know who would win in a race so I have nothing to prove. I just love my car. :chug:

My first car was a Fbody, i never got caught up in the import world thankfully. It absolutely pisses me off having do deal with some of the people which live near and around me who actually 100% believe that their hondas or what ever they drive is cool and fast, i sit there and try to explain reality to them and they wont have any of it. :bang: The youth of today is just plain stupid and its ironic for me to say that since im only 20, but i just cant take the stupidity of some people. and another thing that really upsets me is the damn punk kids who put 30k into their hondas buy selling drugs and what have you and proceed to drive around with it half finished and unpainted but they think that thats a cool thing to do. :gay: Its retarded.

I have a couple friends that drive imports but at the least they are mature and civil about, one of them being a Twin Turbo 3000gt and my other buddy driving a really well put together BMW M3. But their done tastefully.

END OF RANT :chug:



-john

My coworker drove my SS the other day. He has a integra that runs 13's I dunno about that. But he drove my car and said, "I want one." He said it had a lot of power but its too expensive. I laughed at him 17K for the car and it aint nowhere near fast dude it only runs 13.5 in the 1/4. He said that it was fast enough. I said wait till the cam and heads come in then you can drive it. I told him it will give me a 10-15 hp increase haha. Hes gonna shit when he drives it.

My first car is a Mustang GT. Now im 19 and I have a 2000 Camaro Z28. I always wanted a camaro, but I think my Mustang still looks better lol.

Around here, me and Bubba have been regulating the streets lol. The camaros are feared :lol:

WELL, I dunno about other ppl in my area, but my first car at 16 was an 89 sunbird, and my dad had a firebird at the time and I always thought "that car rocks" Well one thing led to another and I was given a great deal on a 97 t-bird, at 18, although shortly after that i was bitten by the F-body bug. Four months after i got the thunderbird, i signed papers on a '00 Red v-6 camaro, (And yes, I test drove a v-6 mustang, and even after considering A-plan pricing, I chose the f-body, due to ride and looks). About a year after I got it my dad got a SOM 02 SS, and after driving it I just HAD to have an LS1. Coincidentally I got into a wreck less than 2 weeks after driving his car, (elderly woman tried to make a left hand turn across my lane and I plowed into her. She so badly misjudged the turn that my ABS never had time to engage). I cried b/c the car was beautiful, (even for a V6), and about two weeks later i found a 99 Z28 that I could afford. I have had the car for 2 years now, and I am now 21, and I still love it as much as I did when I first got it. I always argue with my buddies who think fwd four-bangers are cool, and they claim they can get more power outta theirs, I think they are victims of the advertising campaigns that most of these companies put out. BTW in NC my insurance on my Z is actually less than what was quoted to me for a V6 mustang, and it is only $10 more a month than my V6 fbody.

I am 19 years old, when i was 15 my dad bought me a 94 t-bird for $1,000 after a year i wanted something faster so, "I" worked my ass off and saved up money to buy a 94 Z28, "I" pay for everything nothing does my dad pay for. "I" pay for the car, the insuarance. the gas, the oil,the tires i went throught every 3 months. And after a year of having the Z28 which wasnt slow it ran 13. 60's all day. I wanted something faster so I sold my Z28 and put a down payment on a 98 SS camaro. And I have had the car for a year in a half now and I work like 50 hours a week just to keep the car but it is worth it. I pay 200 a month for car payment, 240 a month for car insaurance. And this doesnt inculde the bill that my dad makes me pay, I pay for rent, my cell phone bill, my cable bill for the computer. Health insurance. So it is possible to have an SS camaro when you are 19 years old. Must of my friends have nice cars to, my one friend has a 99 cobra the has 450rwhp, my other friend has a 05 STI that has 400rwph, and my other friend has a 05 BMW M3, And my other friend has a 02 Z28 which is stock but still fast. All these kids are 19 or younger but most of my friends parents pay for there cars to but they still have nice cars. Also I just bought a 91 S10 so I can make my camaro fast and not drive my camaro everyday. I am thinkin about buying the STS rearmount turbo system, I just love the feeling of a turbo car or a bike. My brother got me into this turbo stuff. My brother has a Turbo hayabusa that has more HP then my car does.

Look at me I'm 16 and my fist car was a 01 SS! My next car is gona be a Vette or a 01/02 WS6 in 5 or so years. They are great cars, and peope think my brothers stang gt is way way faster then my car. I hate ricers, and my dream car is a Z06 with over 500hp to the ground! So we are not all like that just me and and handul of others feel the same as me, hell my best friend is getting a 00 or 01 Vette or WS6.
i'm 19 and i have had 2 camaros which i have worked and saved up for camaro's and trans ams have the awesome everyday yet " i'll kick your f'in ass " look to them. ls1 vs. 4.6 stock...no contest. for all the rice i see thinking they are bad ass i just pull out my f-body standard chopsticks.

ok guys the whole insurance excuse is not a good enough excuse, i'm 20, living in miami, FL and i've been driving f-bodys since i was 17, my first was an 88 with a 305 got rid of it and then i got an 87 gta trans am. i, now at 20 years old have the 87 gta trans am(with an ls1) and an 05 trail blazer, i'm the primary driver for my car and my mom is the primary for the trail blazer, the cars are both under my name as well as the insurance policy is under my name, with allstate. i pay 295 a month for both cars, for me and my mom.

bottom line insurance with a good company, living in miami, driving a gta trans am (most expensive third gen, insurance wise) young, with a new car also, and it isnt that bad. (by the way my car alone is only 127 a month) .

also as far as imports go they are crap, i have an ls1 in my gta (the truck 5.3 with ls1 accesories, not even a real ls1) and i roll up by these import and they think my old car is slow, stock i was crushing them, so imagine whith the ls1, all my friends drive either ls1 fourth gen f-bodies, or third gen f-bodies, the few imports that beat any of my friends are usually gutted out, weight reduced turbo charged ones. they usually dont even have the stock engine that came with their cars and they still have to modify their new engines to keep up, and we are mostly stock(minor mods, exhaust, intake, free mods), the only guys who actually give us good races are usually the guys with mustangs, or vettes, or other amrican cars.

bottom line, imports are way to slow unless u do alot of modding( very expensive ). so in other words american cars are better and faster and can be just as efiicient bone stock. if you spend on an american car the same money these guys spend on their imports just to keep up, no one with an import would be able to come close to our american cars.

i havent read all 13 pages


im 20, i work part time and go to school full time and i couldnt afford the insurence and the car note and still tring to make it faster...


if i did work full time i could afford it but then i would not have an education...

...so...

education > mostly any car

their are just as many highschoolers buying rice as their are buying muscle... but the majority just dont care what they drive so they drive beaters...

when i was 17 i drove a 91 3.1 rs for two months and then a 95 convertable z28 and then at 18 i got this 2002 z28...

and actually like when i had the 3.1 camaro most people that end up with rice beaters just take what they are given and do what they can to it... i was thinking of buying that turbo kit on thirdgen.org for the 3.1 until i got the lt1...

and about that education being more important then any car thing... i dunno about that... my education is so i can properly work on my car and have the money to spend on it... they are both equally important to me.....