OneQuickSS

Im installing a 224/224 .581/.581 112 and I wanted to know if it needs to be advanced? Its a straight up cam with no advance ground into it. If so, how much and what timing chain will work great with this cam and also have the ability to advance and retard? I wanted to stick with a single roller because Ive heard that it has clearance issues with an ASP underdrive crank pulley. By the way, what steps will need to be taken in order to advance it? Thanks and any help is much appreciated.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

If it has 2 - 4 degrees ground in, you don't need anymore advance. Look at the intake centerline. If it is 110 or less just put it in straight up.

Double rollers will work with the ASP pulley.

nitrousc5

advance it for more top end pull. retard it for more low end torque. your cam should have +4* ground into it (maybe not). Degree it and see where it falls then apply the rules above.

ASP pulley will work with the Rollmaster, but you have to mill the outer diameter of the hub of the pulley (that faces engine) to clear the chain set oil pump spacers. here's a good link: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=414159

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nitrousc5:
<strong> advance it for more top end pull. retard it for more low end torque. your cam should have +4* ground into it (maybe not). Degree it and see where it falls then apply the rules above.

ASP pulley will work with the Rollmaster, but you have to mill the outer diameter of the hub of the pulley (that faces engine) to clear the chain set oil pump spacers. here's a good link: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=414159 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought it was the other way around and advancing it lowered your peak???

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: StevieZ ]</small>

Tim 98z

iTrader: (1)

Is yours from Speed INC.? If so mine is also. And i was wondering the same thing is there any advance ground in? How sould i install this cam, straight up?

Larry

iTrader: (4)

Most of us need advance in our cams to lower our peak torque rpm to get more torque throughout the rpm range. You will et better even with less peak hp if you get the most torque to the ground in your rpm range.

With an automatic transmission car you want your cam advanced or retarded as the case may be, whether it be ground in to the cam or mechanically advanced or retarded with an adjustible timing chain, so your peak torque is 500 rpm below your converter stall speed. In the case of a standard you will want to keep your rpm at or above peak torque when leaving. If your clutch and drive train won't hold a high enough rpm to leave at peak or slightly above then you need to advance your cam.

Also when you hit the lights you want to peak hp about 200-300 above peak hp.

In summation, for your end results you will have to adjust launch rpm (converter stall rpm), gearing, cam design and or cam advance/retard so as you leave at 500 rpm below peak torque with an automatic, no less than torque with a standard, and have your gearing so you reach the light 200-300 above peak hp.

I just installed a double chain Rollmaster and no problem with my ASP pulley. I don't know where that wives tale came from.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OneQuickSS:
<strong> The cam has no advance or retard ground into it! I mentioned that and left my signature with the original post. Now Im confused and I dont have a clue on what to do! I got more than I needed and now Im stumped! I have a 224/224 .581/.581 on a 112 lsa thats straight up. Im wanting to know if this cam needs to be advanced or retarded. I dont know if its true that the double roller timing chains have problems with the ASP pulley, but thats just what I read on one of the threads on here. Maybe some run into the problem and maybe some dont. But if I just wanted to play it safe, will a single roller do? If so, whats the best single roller to go with that will work great with this particular cam? Let me know if you need to know more than whats included in my signature to help you determine if this cam needs to be advanced or retarded. Thanks </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With what I see in your signature I would say advance it 6-8 degrees! That cam is going to peak too high with a 112 ICL.

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Larry ]</small>

Reboot

iTrader: (5)

What's the ICL of the cam 112? I just bought a new cam on a 112 LSA and the ICL was 108 which is 4 degrees advanced.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> With an automatic transmission car you want your cam advanced or retarded as the case may be, whether it be ground in to the cam or mechanically advanced or retarded with an adjustible timing chain, so your peak torque is 500 rpm below your converter stall speed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. If you do that you'll flash past your peak torque so you'll never feed peak torque through the converter. If you flash about 500 rpm below peak torque you'll feed more torque through the converter during launch because you'll be close to peak torque at launch and pass through peak torque as you pull through first gear. More area under the curve. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Our cars have a pretty flat curve, so 300 - 600 rpm below peak torque (depending on your mods) will produce the same torque as a 500 rpm past peak torque.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> advance it for more top end pull. retard it for more low end torque. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like Stevie, I beleive it is the other way.

Tim Sloper

I personally would install it with an intake centerline of 112 (straight up). Advancing the cam even 2 degrees will cost you power in the upper end. Retarding it will cost too much in low end power with little return at the top end for the intended operating range.

I have my 224/228 112 (XE-R) installed on with the intake centerline at 112.

Tim

Larry

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
[QB] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> With an automatic transmission car you want your cam advanced or retarded as the case may be, whether it be ground in to the cam or mechanically advanced or retarded with an adjustible timing chain, so your peak torque is 500 rpm below your converter stall speed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. If you do that you'll flash past your peak torque so you'll never feed peak torque through the converter. If you flash about 500 rpm below peak torque you'll feed more torque through the converter during launch because you'll be close to peak torque at launch and pass through peak torque as you pull through first gear. More area under the curve. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Our cars have a pretty flat curve, so 300 - 600 rpm below peak torque (depending on your mods) will produce the same torque as a 500 rpm past peak torque.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then you will have to take it up with Precision Industries!

OneQuickSS

The cam has no advance or retard ground into it! I mentioned that and left my signature with the original post. Now Im confused and I dont have a clue on what to do! I got more than I needed and now Im stumped! I have a 224/224 .581/.581 on a 112 lsa thats straight up. Im wanting to know if this cam needs to be advanced or retarded. I dont know if its true that the double roller timing chains have problems with the ASP pulley, but thats just what I read on one of the threads on here. Maybe some run into the problem and maybe some dont. But if I just wanted to play it safe, will a single roller do? If so, whats the best single roller to go with that will work great with this particular cam? Let me know if you need to know more than whats included in my signature to help you determine if this cam needs to be advanced or retarded. Thanks

Tim 98z

iTrader: (1)

TTT So straight up? M6 car also? Dont mean to steal you tread I just have the same question

cobrakilla

i have a .542/.570 222/232 114lsa cam. when i called comp cams they advised me to advance it 4 degrees. but my broke *** couldnt afford a Adj. Timing chain so i used the stock one.the cam went straight in with no advance so i really dont know if its hurting me in the long run since i have stock exhaust(lol).lemme know what you guys recommend.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cobrakilla:
<strong> i have a .542/.570 222/232 114lsa cam. when i called comp cams they advised me to advance it 4 degrees. but my broke *** couldnt afford a Adj. Timing chain so i used the stock one.the cam went straight in with no advance so i really dont know if its hurting me in the long run since i have stock exhaust(lol).lemme know what you guys recommend. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If that cam is ground on a 114 ICL you are probably hurting your et. It would probably want to see 7000 rpm to take advantage of its lift and duration. I don't know what heads, mods or transmission and gearing you have but you would need some real mods to take advantage of that cam. Particularly if it is installed with a 114 ICL.

Get a dyno and see where you are making hp/torque.

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Larry ]</small>

cobrakilla

well larry, i only gained 1 tenth after install.i have stock heads,trans,exhaust. the only mods are 3200 stall,3.73 gears,lid,and ls1 edit.so you do recommend advancing the cam? its really a nitrous grind,so i didnt expect major HP increase.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cobrakilla:
<strong> well larry, i only gained 1 tenth after install.i have stock heads,trans,exhaust. the only mods are 3200 stall,3.73 gears,lid,and ls1 edit.so you do recommend advancing the cam? its really a nitrous grind,so i didnt expect major HP increase. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm surprised you didn't actually go slower with stock heads and exhaust and that low rpm 3200 stall. Not near enough stall for that cam on a 114 ICL. A big, high rpm cam has to breath to work. You might try advancing it at least 6 degrees and probably 8 would be better to bring the torque down to a useable rpm but you are going to need good flowing heads and exhaust to make it work best. With the correct advance your stall will probably be ok. With that much lift your are taking a toll on your valve train, assuming this is a street car, and not getting the rewards to go along with it.

Only option now I see is to send me that cam and I'll make it go in my car!

cobrakilla

i take it you like the profile of my cam.i am gonna get TEA heads, full exhaust,and try to get 360ci outta that engine by years end.but since i did have Comp Cams grind this cam for nitrous, i will eventually sell my TNT F2 and get a direct port set up for 250+ shots.

OneQuickSS

Im not sure how this thread went about this direction, but I first wanted to know if the cam needed to be advanced or retarded with an adjustable timing chain? As mentioned before, the cam has nothing ground into it, so therefore it would make it a straight up cam. I am totally lost on what you guys are talking about, but I want to get back on track. My car is a manual (6-speed T-56) and I will include my signature again so that you are able to see all my mods. Sorry for asking again, but does it need to be advanced or retarded any? I dont think the replies that I have gotten have anything to do with my setup. They are based on someone else's car, their own car, or for an automatic. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience, but I need to know for my setup. Thanks alot guys. By the way, even if I dont need to advance it or retard it, should I buy an adjustable timing chain anyway? If so, what is a great one to go with for this cam and all my mods? Is the rumor of a double roller having problems with ASP underdrive pulleys true? Thanks again.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OneQuickSS:
<strong> Im not sure how this thread went about this direction, but I first wanted to know if the cam needed to be advanced or retarded with an adjustable timing chain? As mentioned before, the cam has nothing ground into it, so therefore it would make it a straight up cam. I am totally lost on what you guys are talking about, but I want to get back on track. My car is a manual (6-speed T-56) and I will include my signature again so that you are able to see all my mods. Sorry for asking again, but does it need to be advanced or retarded any? I dont think the replies that I have gotten have anything to do with my setup. They are based on someone else's car, their own car, or for an automatic. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience, but I need to know for my setup. Thanks alot guys. By the way, even if I dont need to advance it or retard it, should I buy an adjustable timing chain anyway? If so, what is a great one to go with for this cam and all my mods? Is the rumor of a double roller having problems with ASP underdrive pulleys true? Thanks again. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"In summation, for your end results you will have to adjust launch rpm (converter stall rpm), gearing, cam design and or cam advance/retard so as you leave at 500 rpm below peak torque with an automatic, no less than torque with a standard, and have your gearing so you reach the lights 200-300 above peak hp.

I just installed a double chain Rollmaster and no problem with my ASP pulley. I don't know where that wives tale came from."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did I pretty much answer your question here? I included whether manual or automatic.

Advance it 6 degrees! That will give you an equivalent of a 106 ICL.

There is no problem with a Rollmaster double roller timing set and an ASP crank pulley.

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Larry ]</small>