A2W on street car?
12-09-2008, 06:04 PM
#1
A2W on street car? I decided to switch over to a turbo setup. It will be a custom stainless tubular manifold setup with a single GT55-91. Tial 60mm wastegate and Tial Q bov.
I am planning to use a large custom A2A intercooler but I have a lot of doubts.
I know the A2W is the way to go but im concerned about all the street driving i do. Sometimes I need to be "ready" for action without hauling a cooler full of ice around.
I would think an A2A would be alot better than a A2W with no ice?
Has anyone used Co2 or nitrous to cool the water in an A2W?
I am planning to use a large custom A2A intercooler but I have a lot of doubts.
I know the A2W is the way to go but im concerned about all the street driving i do. Sometimes I need to be "ready" for action without hauling a cooler full of ice around.
I would think an A2A would be alot better than a A2W with no ice?
Has anyone used Co2 or nitrous to cool the water in an A2W?
12-09-2008, 06:08 PM
#2
ive been reading up on the a2w recently for my turbo build and from my research ive gathered that they use a special heat exchanger purpose built for intercooling that keeps the water at, or close to ambient temperature. then if you know your gonna be racing throw some ice in the tank and get below ambient cooling. i dont see how c02 or n20 could be used to cool the water as it is a closed system
12-09-2008, 06:18 PM
#4
water is a better thermal conductor than air period.
room temp. water will conduct heat away better than room temp. air period
water system is heavier more complicated and more expensive. ALSO works better all scenarios outside of roadcourse where the water cannot cool down quick enough.
room temp. water will conduct heat away better than room temp. air period
water system is heavier more complicated and more expensive. ALSO works better all scenarios outside of roadcourse where the water cannot cool down quick enough.
12-09-2008, 06:24 PM
#5
you can lose alot of piping going from an A2A to a W2A if mounted close enough so that helps with weight
a few quotes from a nice site i found
Water to air means better throttle response.
Instead of the horrible mess of pipes that is normally associated with an air to air intercooler, a water to air intercooler can be mounted in the engine bay, directly between the turbo outlet and the throttle body. A shorter intake route with fewer bends is beneficial in every way
Pressure drop on a standard water to air intercooler core is only .05 PSI. That's not a typo, pressure drop on a water to air intercooler setup is up to 20 times less than a comparably performing air to air setup.
Water does a better job of drawing the heat out of metal than air. Look at engine cooling - how many air-cooled engines are there? Not many, because water does a much more effective job at cooling. So much more, in fact, that it is impossible to engineer a solution for a modern high performance engine that is air cooled
a few quotes from a nice site i found
Water to air means better throttle response.
Instead of the horrible mess of pipes that is normally associated with an air to air intercooler, a water to air intercooler can be mounted in the engine bay, directly between the turbo outlet and the throttle body. A shorter intake route with fewer bends is beneficial in every way
Pressure drop on a standard water to air intercooler core is only .05 PSI. That's not a typo, pressure drop on a water to air intercooler setup is up to 20 times less than a comparably performing air to air setup.
Water does a better job of drawing the heat out of metal than air. Look at engine cooling - how many air-cooled engines are there? Not many, because water does a much more effective job at cooling. So much more, in fact, that it is impossible to engineer a solution for a modern high performance engine that is air cooled
Last edited by dsmawd350; 12-09-2008 at 07:05 PM.
12-09-2008, 06:48 PM
#7
Thats all true, But where does the all the heat in the A/W setup go without using ice, changing the water in between passes or using an second A2w to dissipate the heat.
DSM all of the example you gave have two heat exhangers, one to absorb the heat from the compressed intake charge. The second exchanger to disapate the heat into the atmosphere.
I agree that water has outstanding thermal transfer properties, but it is heavy and it appears to me that it requires two heat exchangers to be used in my aplication?
I can put a huge A2A with fans that will weigh less and be simpler.
It appears to me that allot of the OEM's make a two exchanger system but none of the aftermarket companies do?
Mightymouse how do you hotlap your car after the realstreet cruise without adding ice or changing water?
DSM all of the example you gave have two heat exhangers, one to absorb the heat from the compressed intake charge. The second exchanger to disapate the heat into the atmosphere.
I agree that water has outstanding thermal transfer properties, but it is heavy and it appears to me that it requires two heat exchangers to be used in my aplication?
I can put a huge A2A with fans that will weigh less and be simpler.
It appears to me that allot of the OEM's make a two exchanger system but none of the aftermarket companies do?
Mightymouse how do you hotlap your car after the realstreet cruise without adding ice or changing water?
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12-09-2008, 06:52 PM
#8
the normal A2W will have the actual IC core that the intake charge passes through, which is fed from a resovour which water gets pumped from and through a seperate radiator/fan setup before it hits the core. The radiator is what dissapates the heat from the water once it has passed through the core and absorbed the heat from the intake charge
12-09-2008, 06:56 PM
#10
The air inlet/outlet should, of course, be piped in between your turbo and throttle body. The water inlet should come from the pump, and the outlet should lead to the radiator, then the reservoir (if equipped).
technically no hot water ever gets back to the reseroir. after it leaves the IC core hot, it passes through the radiator before going back to the reservoir. so the water in the tank should always be around ambient.. with that setup adding ice to the tank will send the iced water right to the core and keep the water cooler throughout
technically no hot water ever gets back to the reseroir. after it leaves the IC core hot, it passes through the radiator before going back to the reservoir. so the water in the tank should always be around ambient.. with that setup adding ice to the tank will send the iced water right to the core and keep the water cooler throughout
Last edited by dsmawd350; 12-09-2008 at 07:06 PM.
12-09-2008, 07:05 PM
#11
Thats all true, But where does the all the heat in the A/W setup go without using ice, changing the water in between passes or using an second A2w to dissipate the heat.
DSM all of the example you gave have two heat exhangers, one to absorb the heat from the compressed intake charge. The second exchanger to disapate the heat into the atmosphere.
I agree that water has outstanding thermal transfer properties, but it is heavy and it appears to me that it requires two heat exchangers to be used in my aplication?
DSM all of the example you gave have two heat exhangers, one to absorb the heat from the compressed intake charge. The second exchanger to disapate the heat into the atmosphere.
I agree that water has outstanding thermal transfer properties, but it is heavy and it appears to me that it requires two heat exchangers to be used in my aplication?
12-09-2008, 07:31 PM
#12
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Water does a better job of drawing the heat out of metal than air. Look at engine cooling - how many air-cooled engines are there? Not many, because water does a much more effective job at cooling. So much more, in fact, that it is impossible to engineer a solution for a modern high performance engine that is air cooled
12-09-2008, 07:51 PM
#15
so your fbody is air cooled? thats if you own one...
an old beetle is air cooled..no radiator, water pump, engine coolant etc it relys solely on air passing over the engine to cool it
now a days cars are water cooled. water passes through the engine and pulls the heat out...
head over to the newbie section if you can't grasp this concept and think air is what cools our cars
12-09-2008, 07:57 PM
#16
DSM stop shitting in my thread
What you cant comprihend is that the A2water heat exhcanger on you car (radiator) uses air to dissipate the heat thats transfered from the engine. Couple that with the fact you did nothing your first four posts but repeate my questions and have added NO technical information to this thread End it now or I will ask to have the thread deleted
What you cant comprihend is that the A2water heat exhcanger on you car (radiator) uses air to dissipate the heat thats transfered from the engine. Couple that with the fact you did nothing your first four posts but repeate my questions and have added NO technical information to this thread End it now or I will ask to have the thread deleted
12-09-2008, 08:04 PM
#17
sure air assists in cooling the water, but its the water that cools the engine. but...i see your point .
anyways im out... good luck with the A2W quest try google for "air to water intercooler benefits" and the likes you may come up with some useful reads
anyways im out... good luck with the A2W quest try google for "air to water intercooler benefits" and the likes you may come up with some useful reads
12-09-2008, 08:54 PM
#18
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I went a2w on mine just cause I don’t like the way the front mount looks. It also seems rational that water will cool a lot more efficiently than air, and a2w leaves the possibility of ice.
In these threads there always seems to be an argument that the water will get hot, but how long are you really able to stay on the gas in an 800whp car on the street anyways...
Pretty much summed things up for me when I saw that MIGHTYMOUSE drove his car to Memphis and won 2 years in a row with a2w.
In these threads there always seems to be an argument that the water will get hot, but how long are you really able to stay on the gas in an 800whp car on the street anyways...
Pretty much summed things up for me when I saw that MIGHTYMOUSE drove his car to Memphis and won 2 years in a row with a2w.
12-09-2008, 10:18 PM
#19
i was just fixing to ask taht about MM. MM on your A/W setup, how many miles are you using that? have any updated pictures of the setup? i saw the ones of where you removed your tank but that was it.
having less spaghetti pipes under the hood would be much nicer
having less spaghetti pipes under the hood would be much nicer
12-09-2008, 10:41 PM
#20
I HAD BOTH SET-UPS ON THE SAME CAR......air water does work awesome with ice in fact temps were down in the 50 degs....but 99% of the time all you got is warm water...and then the air temps are at 130 degs if your lucky...my new air to air is never more then 10 degs over ambiant and most the time it sits about 75 degs.......I would never run an air to water unless you can use it all the time...if you don't its just a waste.