CalSpeedPerformance

iTrader: (64)

old deleted info.

$ho_tyme

iTrader: (3)

I can see where there comming from, Its a liabilty and there not wanting people bagging there name if the guides go south. But good info.

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

Everyone always knew you COULD. I'll never recommend it, and most shops won't either. Bad geometry isn't acceptable, and it would not be responsible of a professional shop to recommend a setup like that especially since Trickflow recommends aftermarket rockers as well. AFRs have a stock valve angle, and so the geometry isn't thrown off as bad so stockers are much more acceptable on an AFR vs a Trickflow.

HUNTER02SS

iTrader: (24)

There is a shop here that has done that as well. Working great so far also!

sidewayz28

iTrader: (24)

$400 is a lot cheaper then trashing your $2,XXX heads and possibly f*ing your internals up

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

Point is that they should tell them that. Not just say they won't work.

CalSpeedPerformance

iTrader: (64)

Yes, but this also applies to every guy out there with a MS4 camshaft with a stock rocker on a cnc stock casting head/afr etc....its just as bad.


They did say they dont see a *problem* with stock rockers with a .560 or less cam but they still recommend a roller rocker on every application possible

transAm-98

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it was ever said as a "matter of fact" that stock rockers WILL NOT WORK with TFS. They fit fine and if you like cutting corners than they will work, but TFS as well as there distributors recomend roller rockers to conpensate for the lower valve angle that the stock rockers were not designed for. Personally, I wouldn't buy some $2k+ dollar heads and then throw in a valvetrain that kinda works.

Also TFS probably doesn't want to deal people coming back with worn valve guides or any other premature wear from running stock rockers but claiming that they had rollers on the whole time. Trying to get TFS to flip the bill just because they cheaped out on their rockers.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

Bingo.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I say this time and time again on this board. Valvetrain geometry is very important, and it's the valve angle on the TFS stuff that requires the rockers.

For whomever is reading this, if you have beef with using a $400 rocker on a set of trick flows, you're better off buying an AFR or TEA LS6 head that can support a stock rocker.

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

I don't know this for a fact but have "heard" TFS revised their design a bit and now require a slightly shorter pushrod than the earlier castings provided everything else being equal. And the change was made due to VG wear issues.... Let me repeat I "HEARD" this and have no idea if it is a fact so I don't want to spread bad/untrue info...

I know somebody out there like Ron@Vengeance who have seen a lot of sets of these heads could shed some light.... Can TFS chime in????


There is so much info/misinfo out there. I would love to know if the .550 lift info above is correct also I have never seen/heard this before.....

Maybe I should have Santa bring me some YT UL's for Christmas

sidewayz28

iTrader: (24)

i hope santa brings me a forged 370 with a big turbo

racer7088

I've run several sets with stock rockers and they seem to be running great but the TFS stuff does have some pretty hoss little springs and I would much rather see the roller rockers as well in general especially with the higher spring pressure.

transAm-98

iTrader: (1)

Shouldn't really matter if you measure to see what PR length your supposed to be running. Different size base circles require different size push rods. The push rods that came with my TFS wouldn't even let the valve close all the way. Always measure first.

ATLSS

iTrader: (7)

Not for long. The valve guides are already shot, guaranteed.

Don't believe me, pull the heads and check them yourself.

This sounds like another attempt by you know who to "save the customer money."

Tell him to read up a little more next time he has a bright idea.

ATLSS

iTrader: (7)

Bingo.

Looks like one of the lesser quality shops in the ATL is selling TFS heads and installing the stock rockers... Failures are coming... but I'm sure they're blame it on bad gas or something wild.... Because we all know that the tune couldn't be the cause either....

What a shame...

Blue Meanie

iTrader: (3)

The mushroomed valve stems on my first set of heads disagree with you. Whomever buys these heads, do not listen to this advice, don't be cheap and get the rollers.

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Yes you can, no you shouldn't. Several reasons but most important is valve guide life. I personally will not install TFS heads with stock rockers.

CalSpeedPerformance

iTrader: (64)

I actually didnt mean to post this as a "recommended" setup. I just posted the info that it is possible to use the stock rocker arm if needed. I wouldnt install them on thing myself either but if I had a set going on a stock motor with under .560 lift stock'ish, then i may consider it.

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

There are 2 versions of the TFS heads:

The "early" geometry which used 7.700" long pushrods which was optimized for roller rockers and was pratically incompatible with stock rockers, these were only produced for about 6 months.

The "late" geometry which uses 7.500" long pushrods and is basically stock GM geometry rolled 1.5 degrees.

The geometry of the TFS heads is NOT what causes a problem with stock rockers and high lift cams, it is the bronze guides, this is why TFS recommends roller rockers.

ANY LS head, including stock GM heads, with bronze guides and stock rockers running around .600" lift or more WILL suffer valve guides wear. Every GM, AFR or Dart head we've taken apart that has bronze guides and used stock rockers and a high lift cam, suffered from valve guide wear. A person may not even know they have a problem, but the digital gauge doesn't lie. When these worn guides are checked they are oval at the top, worn in the direction of the rocker arm motion. They are also larger at the top than at the bottom.

Tony Mamo recently published that AFR heads will suffer from guide wear when used with stock rockers long term.

Stock GM heads have powdered metal guides and are extremely resistant to guide wear, even with high lift cams.

The TFS heads have a "Max pressure" spring installed the measures around 450 lbs open, this is to keep the valve train in check with the heavier roller rockers. If someone is going to use stock rockers they should change the springs to the Gold (360 lbs open) or the Extreme (400 lbs open). The increased spring pressure actually causes increased tip and guide wear when used with stock rockers!

JD1

GOD! This crap gets soooooo old.


Anyone wanna hear about the time I bought a used Aeromotive pump and it didnt work about 4 years ago?