bboyxclub

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys let's go through some history here. Back in 2002 GM had announce the death of the Camaro becuase the numbers were low. Yet it was the number 2 in sales amount for a car of its class. Today 8 years later Pretty much the Future of Chevrolet and GM ride on the sales amount of the new Camaro and the Volt. What you guys think?? A little ironic huh..

Come on lets give these BIG GUYS at GM some food for tough!!!

wabmorgan

The future of GM does NOT rest on the Camaro or the Volt.

Camaro.... won't make or break GM.... simply won't sell enough units to matter... either way.

Volt.... while innovated..... will not be profitable for GM...... at least not for several years. GM has already admitted this.

GM and Toyota sold about the same number of cars last year. Toyota made $17 Billion, GM LOST $38 Billion.

Total sales(rather lone profits(which is what really counts)) of Camaro and Volt would not = $55 Billion (The spread between Toyota and GM.)

The problem is their legacy cost..... they are simply too high.

The ONLY thing that will save GM(Ford and Chrysler) are concessions from the UAW... or a bankruptcy.

89IROC

iTrader: (2)

yeah ud have to have ur head pretty far up your *** to think 2 cars are going to save a multibrand giant car manufacturer thats on the verge of collapse....I love my old school chevys, and the Gen III and Gen IV v8s but the only new car id buy from gm would be a vette, otherwise id just get a nice dd import........i use to be all hyped about the camaro and dont get me wrong it is a good car but i wont be in line for one...gm needs to get away from the UAW....its like a tick just sucking their blood......

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

True, the sales of these two cars will not, all by themselves, save GM or even just Chevrolet.
BUT, the buzz or image (and showroom traffic) generated by both of these fine machines could potentially go A LONG way at helping the future of this huge and once great company.

bboyxclub

iTrader: (2)

Okay I'm going to try to anwer to this the nicest possible. I think that the only one that has his head up his *** is you my friend. To contradict your belief Chevy does needs these two cars to a least meet expected sales. This is because they have millions riding on these cars. These cars needs to sell for that company not to loose millions in expenses that marketing, desing, production has/will take in producing these cars. Millions that this company currently does not have the luxury to loose being that they are borrowing money to be able to get started or finish these "projects" aka camaro; Volt. You said it yourself "on the verge of callapse" That could give you an idea to what is riding on new introduced cars on any of the big 3. So my friend dont be an *** and contribute some educated information without being a total dick.

bboyxclub

iTrader: (2)

You are right they won't MAKE GM more presissely chevy; however they WILL Break chevy if they don't sell. They need these cars to sell to make GM a profitable company once again. By the way Toyota sales have been down almost 22% so GM is not the only one Having Trouble.

wabmorgan

While their success would certainly help profitability..... their failure will NOT break GM..... sales volume just isn't enough to cause a major loss or profit.

GM would certainly still survive if the Camaro fails.

The Volt.... or at least it's underlying technology.... may be more large key to profitability. It may also be the key to more bailout funding.... as a "green technology" it is certain to receive more support from the Obama administration than the Camaro would.

However....The REAL problem is the legacy cost.... the UAW MUST make wage and benefit concessions or that is WHAT will BREAK GM.

Such concessions are a requirement under the terms of the bailout loan.

Failure to secure these concessions from the UAW can cause the loan to be recalled... and that would certainly cause their demise.

Awake455

General Motors has 96,000 direct employees and over a million retired people being paid by General Motors. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the deals agreed to by GM and the UAW, that kind of overhead is not sustainable.

Hybrids and cars like the Volt are not comparably priced without government subsidies in the form of tax breaks. Even then, as said earlier, GM admits the Volt will not be profitable for quite some time.

The Camaro will hopefully sell well but its most important benefit to GM is to get butts in the dealership door.

bboyxclub

iTrader: (2)

Very true/important...

89IROC

iTrader: (2)

haha im an *** i know it lol, you said "Today 8 years later Pretty much the Future of Chevrolet and GM ride on the sales amount of the new Camaro and the Volt." and as i and others stated this is just not true, my statement over the head up your *** still holds true if someone believes that after reading the advice and opinions listed here..........i said you would have to have you head up your ***, i did not acuse u of having yours up there but since you got a little defensive it does beg the question of where exactly is your head lol,,,, but dont take that to serious im just joking.....

bboyxclub

iTrader: (2)

If you mean it in a non-directional way; phrase you comments better. The reason that I got defensive is because I hate to see stupid comments when what I'm trying to get is other's "educated" opinions. Don't worry, in the mere two post that you made here is this thread I can see that nothing good is to be except from you other than your subtle fascination with "head up asses" . I guess some people need to find a place to let go one way or another even if it is so impersonal such as the internet forums. I will avoid your comments as for you responses do not benefit any of us.

Raleigh TA

iTrader: (13)

I hate it, but I think the question here is which chapter? 11 or 7? Ch. 11 will allow them to shed the union and the non-producing retirees, or Ch. 7 will result whether or not our tax money heads their way, timing will only change. Like was said, Toyota's sales are down severely, but they still walked with $17 billion, most of the difference is that legacy workforce. Nobody likes the thought of starving retirees, but with GM gone, isn't the result is the same?

TriShield

The heart and soul of Chevrolet rely on the Camaro but it's not going to save Chevrolet.

Neither is the Volt, even if they sell it out and with government subsidy it will not turn a profit.

stevenp

It costs around $70 an hour for gm to produce one car. It costs $40 an hour for honda or toyota to produce one car. (If I am wrong correct me but I think I am pretty close) Now does ch. 7 or ch. 11 sound better to you in todays economy when we will need taxpayers money to go somewhere else rather than to gm or the car companies. In my opinion gm should go brankrupt under ch. 11 to do an extreme amount of reorganizing- its what gm desperately needs instead of going to the gov't for money. BTW how WAS toyota so profitable if they are able manufacture their cars in the U.S. but not get in the same sit. as Gm.

89IROC

iTrader: (2)

causw toyota hasnt been here since the start up of unions, they dont have overpaid union workers and a million retired union workers to pay for.....

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

How? Because they didn't have to pay/support/give health care (aka: take excellent care of/support fellow Americans) to past/former employees like GM does and the Japanese government (and it's people by BUYING the cars) support their auto industry unlike here (until recently).
That's how.

Grand National 5-0

Um....why? Back in the 80's when dodge was failing they got help from the gov. and brought in a new car....the LHS. Do you know whay LHS stands for? LAST HOPE SEDAN. It worked and Chrysler is still in buisness.....i dont know if it WILL work, but im not gonna say it CANT.

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

uhmm, have you ever been and drive a GM car recently?!...I'm sure not!! Just look at a Corolla's interior and at the Cobalt one; the toyota one looks like an *** compare to the Cobalt! We are million years ahead from the sunfire/cavalier interior, GM products are as nice as the import stuff(better in some case IMO).

The true problem is that they did it too late, so everyone prefer to get an import DD(like you)because of the reputation GM got in the last years, not because of the real actual value of the car in 08-09'...

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

And I'm in line for the new Camaro SS too by the way.. as soon as I get the money though

bboyxclub

iTrader: (2)

This is true I have driven Cobalts and ther are much nicer that my familys YARIS and also rented the Malibu a couple of weeks ago at Canada and It was really comfortable + 1 for a daily driver.

By the way the interior on the Malibu Much better than the plastic inserts interior look on the camry.