View Full Version : Mail order tune questions


Ironxcross
01-18-2009, 10:15 PM
They claim to add power by adding timing along with everything else (cooler fan temps etc)

What actually happens? Does anyone have a before and after of the stock table compared to an altered table?

Ironxcross
01-18-2009, 11:29 PM
anyone?

Mrwilson
01-19-2009, 11:31 AM
I too would like to know, does anyone have the specific maps or nominal data changes (for a standard run-of-the-mill "tune") on hand for each parameter change?

ItsNotStock
01-19-2009, 11:59 AM
A tune is a tune. The only difference from the mail order one as opposed to a dyno tune is the tuner does not have the car right in front of them. This makes the tuning process slower as they cannot go as extreme with the changes and must do a little bit each time. Having a wideband helps speed this process up. If you have hp tuners I can post up a stock file of my friends gto and one that Texas Speed e-mailed him when he got his 427 stroker.

12secSS
01-19-2009, 12:08 PM
Mail order tunes are basic tunes that were developed on someone elses car, but they choose to sell at a lower cost to customers with similar mods. Some Mail Order tuners will go a step further and offer updates if you send them scans after the tune is loaded, these are better then the standard MOTs. Different tuners have different methods of tuning, some "trick" the ECM to set your fuel at WOT only, while others adjust various tables that affe4ct fueling from idle and part throttle to WOT. Comparing tunes will not tell you what typically is adjusted. It is best to ask a lot of questions. :) Obviously an in person tune is much better, wether it is a street tune or dyno tune (not WOT for one hour and they are doen either).

Mrwilson
01-19-2009, 01:01 PM
So basicly your answers are, no I dont have any data to help answer the question so I decided to formulate my own question to answer for you. Did I get it right?

sreve
01-19-2009, 04:36 PM
So basicly your answers are, no I dont have any data to help answer the question so I decided to formulate my own question to answer for you. Did I get it right?

itsnotstock offered data but you need the software to look at it.
check your attitude at the door he answered your question and is trying to help.
Quote:What actually happens? Does anyone have a before and after of the stock table compared to an altered table?

its not one table it's so many it looks overwhelming the first time you see it.

a mail order tune is as good as you make it. if you provide them with a lot
of info along with some data logs they can do a good job. will it be as good as a dyno tune? no but if everyone on both ends does there job it will
get you in pretty close.

Mrwilson
01-19-2009, 05:50 PM
itsnotstock offered data but you need the software to look at it.
check your attitude at the door he answered your question and is trying to help.
Quote:What actually happens? Does anyone have a before and after of the stock table compared to an altered table?

its not one table it's so many it looks overwhelming the first time you see it.

a mail order tune is as good as you make it. if you provide them with a lot
of info along with some data logs they can do a good job. will it be as good as a dyno tune? no but if everyone on both ends does there job it will
get you in pretty close.

I have no attitude here.

Perhaps you know my question better than I. Oh wait, I happen to have a copy of it right here. "I too would like to know, does anyone have the specific maps or nominal data changes (for a standard run-of-the-mill "tune") on hand for each parameter change?" If you think that was answered your daft.

I appriciate that the data offered may be a bit overwhelming, and that you can only look at it through the software. Assuming I do not have this software, which more than likely one would not, what is option B for finding out this information?

thunderstruck507
01-19-2009, 06:23 PM
So basicly your answers are, no I dont have any data to help answer the question so I decided to formulate my own question to answer for you. Did I get it right?

you sir are making yourself look like an asshole

ItsNotStock
01-19-2009, 06:36 PM
Yes. I was referring specifically to tune packages where you take logs-send them in-and get a refined tune through e-mail or snailmail until you have it dialed in. Just getting one "estimated" tune is akin to downloading one off of the hptuners website and saying "ok, this is good enough." (Which by the way is a terrible fucking idea) To be honest your original question was a retarded one. Like I said a tune is a tune. There isn't anything magical that is done with an in-house tune compared to a mail order. The only difference is that of being able to dial it in quicker and possibly a little bit better. Injectors are scaled, VE table scaled, rpm set etc etc. I offered to put up a side by side comparison so you could see for yourself. I'm done with this thread.

Ironxcross
01-19-2009, 07:16 PM
Yes. I was referring specifically to tune packages where you take logs-send them in-and get a refined tune through e-mail or snailmail until you have it dialed in. Just getting one "estimated" tune is akin to downloading one off of the hptuners website and saying "ok, this is good enough." (Which by the way is a terrible fucking idea) To be honest your original question was a retarded one. Like I said a tune is a tune. There isn't anything magical that is done with an in-house tune compared to a mail order. The only difference is that of being able to dial it in quicker and possibly a little bit better. Injectors are scaled, VE table scaled, rpm set etc etc. I offered to put up a side by side comparison so you could see for yourself. I'm done with this thread.

The side to side comparison seems very enticing, I just want to see the difference so I can get a handle on the variables they manipulate. Also, it's not about if my initial question is "retarded", its about improving understanding.

1987firechicken
01-19-2009, 07:49 PM
It will vary depending on what company you buy it from. Normally small changes in timing are made if you going to only run premium in it, the MAF frequency tables are changed to richen it back up again. Some change the multiplier for your power enrichment table some don't, same as with your VE table, some tuners add to it a bit some don't and let the MAF table changes do the work. Of course it will vary on your mods too, injectors are scaled, idle trims are changed and if needed idle rpm is changed as well.

Ironxcross
01-19-2009, 08:07 PM
It will vary depending on what company you buy it from. Normally small changes in timing are made if you going to only run premium in it, the MAF frequency tables are changed to richen it back up again. Some change the multiplier for your power enrichment table some don't, same as with your VE table, some tuners add to it a bit some don't and let the MAF table changes do the work. Of course it will vary on your mods too, injectors are scaled, idle trims are changed and if needed idle rpm is changed as well.

Cool, thanks for the response.

On a stock car with 14.40 Air/Fuel ratio, would they lean it out?

Also, how many degrees would they bump timing by?

1987firechicken
01-19-2009, 08:18 PM
When you say 14.4 is that at WOT? If not then yes they would lean it out a bit either with the VE table or the MAF table. As far as the timing it depends on the tuner I'd think anywhere from 2-7 degrees depending on your mods. It's hard to put any specifics on it since no one has the same mods and I doubt anyone with tuning software would shell out the bucks for a mail tune just to compare. Personally I don't trust mail tunes at all, I'd only use one for a safe start on a new motor to get it to a place to tune it or to fine tune it myself. Not having the car to monitor or only having ONE log is not enough. I have to run the car 5+ times to nail down any kind of change until it is about right, I'm anal so I've been doing tuning constantly until it's almost perfect.

Ironxcross
01-19-2009, 08:35 PM
When you say 14.4 is that at WOT? If not then yes they would lean it out a bit either with the VE table or the MAF table. As far as the timing it depends on the tuner I'd think anywhere from 2-7 degrees depending on your mods. It's hard to put any specifics on it since no one has the same mods and I doubt anyone with tuning software would shell out the bucks for a mail tune just to compare. Personally I don't trust mail tunes at all, I'd only use one for a safe start on a new motor to get it to a place to tune it or to fine tune it myself. Not having the car to monitor or only having ONE log is not enough. I have to run the car 5+ times to nail down any kind of change until it is about right, I'm anal so I've been doing tuning constantly until it's almost perfect.

Is it hard to do all this? Where can I get more info?

1987firechicken
01-19-2009, 11:37 PM
It's not that bad at all I've been doing it for about 7 months now and I can do most of what I need. Getting familiar with the software and understanding concepts is the main part. Try reading the link below. Even the help file in HP Tuners will get you started with tuning the VE table. The HP Tuners forum is also FILLED with people who know their shit and will help you along with understanding it all. You get out of it what you put into it. You can spend 3 days tuning and have a good tune or keep on tuning longer for a near perfect tune.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/287094-read-me-first-tuning-docs-ve-maf-ses-lights-faqs-more-01-31-07-a.html

Ironxcross
01-20-2009, 12:03 AM
Perfect! Thank you.

chrs1313
01-21-2009, 08:13 PM
you sir are making yourself look like an asshole

yeah he is a fuck!ng tool in this thread too...:eyes:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/1048959-ftra-ssra-guys-come.html